All this Pat Williams talk

[GG]

I've seen this metnioned around here a few times and it's something I just can't get on board with. It seems to me that it's holding the Bills to a different standard than the rest of the league. In the era of party and the salary cap it's all but impossible to get create a pass rush with just your Front4. Sure there have been a few anamolies like Baltimore in '99 with McCrary/Adams/Goose/Burnett, Tampa in '02 with Rice/Sapp/McFarland/Spires and even Carolina when they're occasionally healthy with Peppers/Jenkins/Buckner/Rucker. Or maybe the odd gem like Freeney or Strahan can be a factor on their own. But aside from those rarities, you just can't put together and keep together 4 guys who can get upfield with any kind of consistency.

All teams have to bring extra rushers to generate pressure and the biggest difference between those who do it sucesfully and those who don't is that the effective teams have a knack for knowing when to do it safely and from where to bring it, as opposed to other teams who too often seem like their philosophy is to keep throwing as much stuff at the wall as you can until something hopefully sticks. One could argue that this year the Bills fall into the latter category, but to lament our inability to do something that nobody else can do either just seems somewhat removed from the reality of the modern day NFL.

Cya

488409[/snapback]

 

You are right, few teams can effectively sack the passer just from the front four, and this gets back to Rubes' point on the basics of five vs four. But even teams without a freak passer rusher at DE have been able to manage a pass rush where at least one of the guys commands a double team, effectively freeing a spot for the designated 5th pass rusher.

 

This then plays right into the hands of your other point is that the inability of Bills rushers to attract a double team and Gray's not so surprising blitzing makes it very easy for the opposing coordinators to design a plan that attacks the underneath spots vacated by the blitzers.

 

This was a failed technique in the installation of GW's scheme here, while Lebeau added some measure of surprise by installing the zone blitz packages which led to more turnovers. But if you get a smart QB throwing against that coverage, he will pick us apart.

[AKC]

You are right, few teams can effectively sack the passer just from the front four, and this gets back to Rubes' point on the basics of five vs four.  But even teams without a freak passer rusher at DE have been able to manage a pass rush where at least one of the guys commands a double team, effectively freeing a spot for the designated 5th pass rusher. 

 

This then plays right into the hands of your other point is that the inability of Bills rushers to attract a double team and Gray's not so surprising blitzing makes it very easy for the opposing coordinators to design a plan that attacks the underneath spots vacated by the blitzers. 

 

This was a failed technique in the installation of GW's scheme here, while Lebeau added some measure of surprise by installing the zone blitz packages which led to more turnovers.  But if you get a smart QB throwing against that coverage, he will pick us apart.

488538[/snapback]

 

I wonder if it's this easy:

 

We both agree the run D sucks this year, and we agree the pass D on 3rd downs is poor.

 

Where we differ is in whether the overall decline of the defense has been caused by the field position given up on the first two downs or just poor execution of our pass defense.

[Left Overture]

I'd think a strength of schedule debate between the two seasons would be tough to support considering last year the AFC East was far stronger and we weren't being manhandled by teams like the Saints and Raiders. If you're trying to say the defense of last year was overrated I won't argue against it- but was it substantially better then this one? Boy Howdy!

 

I don't want to discourage your conversation about third downs especially considering the fact is that last season we caved in on 33% of them while this year we're giving up on 45% of them. Yes we're bad on third downs- but I simply can't disconnect that from the fact of what's happening on the first two downs where we're leaving teams with easier- or shorter- third down attempts. And therein lies my principal complaint about the run defense on first and second.

 

I might be confused by your position- I'm guessing you're not saying the cumulative effect over the course of a game of a 7 yard pass in football is anywhere near that of a 5 yard run?

488329[/snapback]

 

To also emphasize the drop in run defense AKA the loss of Pat Williams, and the effect it has on the pass defense, one must consider the fact that Milloy and Vincent must cheat towards the line of scrimmage for much of the game. That leaves our secondary vulnerable.

 

Last year Milloy and Vincent could support the secondary knowing that the defensive line could hold up against the run. This knowlege also prevented them and the cornerbacks from biting on play-action fakes. This year the entire defense is so scared that a running back is going to break loose into the secondary that they all bite on it. This is where a team starts to fall apart because everyone is worrying about the other guy not getting it done. When this happens, a lot of players start to get caught out of position.

 

Last year, a blitzing Milloy or Vincent was a surprizing thing to the teams we played because they both actually spent time supporting the secondary. Their blitzes were more successful. This year, one or the other is almost always found up at the line of scrimmage.

 

Milloy is playing hurt, so I am curious why they do not play Coy Wire on more downs. I am not a big Coy Wire fan - because frankly he sucks in coverage, but what he does excel at is run support. If you are going to play the safety up at the line, I would rather see Coy Wire up there than Milloy trying to make tackles with one arm.

 

It is cut and dry. We lost a very good run stuffer, as well as a player that could collapse the pocket so our edge rushers could get to or hurry the opposing QB. We did play some below average teams last year, but last year when we played them - we made them look like the below average teams they were.

 

Donahoe failed to have the personnel in place to account for the loss of Pat Williams. The fact is that we should have at least 3 to 4 solid defensive tackles on this team to play the 4-3, and we only have one.

 

Whether it is through the draft, or we raid the Jaguars line - I don't care, but that defensive line has got to be addressed. After that, they need to find a guard with bigger nads than Villariel, and talk with Mike Williams about a pay cut. The jury is still out on Gandy, and Bennie Anderson is a turnstile in pass protection at left guard. I have always felt that teague is not strong enough to play center, but he has been very durable.

 

Willis "the self-proclaimed best back in the league" should learn how to block and pick up the blitz before he writes his acceptance speech for Canton.

 

 

The more I type about my Bills, the more I feel like the little Dutch boy at the dam trying to plug all those holes. I feel like the front office has spent a great deal of attention on the skill positions on this team, but they have done little to address the guys in the trenches - and we all know that is the place where this game is won or lost. Maybe, just maybe this year was a wake-up call.

[JAMIEBUF12]

well one thing you leave out.yes pat wasnt in on the 3rd downs,but with that said buffalo wasnt really in running downs on 3rd down either.with pat helping stuffing the run the 3rd downs were like 3rd and 5 and 3rd and 6 and if it was a 3rd and say lie 11 we would get burned on the pass or screen play.even when our defense has been good it seems to me jerry grays defeneses have never been able to stop the "crunch 3rd downs"like when the game is on the line .

[AKC]

The fact is that we should have at least 3 to 4 solid defensive tackles on this team to play the 4-3, and we only have one.

 

 

The more I type about my Bills, the more I feel like the little Dutch boy at the dam trying to plug all those holes. I feel like the front office has spent a great deal of attention on the skill positions on this team, but they have done little to address the guys in the trenches - and we all know that is the place where this game is won or lost. Maybe, just maybe this year was a wake-up call.

489182[/snapback]

 

Hear-Hear! In the contemporary NFL DT has become arguably the most important position in the game, and the depth mix you have rostered up there determines your ability to play 60 minutes on Sundays. We came into the season with half an NFL DT depth chart and we'll pay for it through the rest of this year. Let's just hoep there are a few inspired Sundays where the guys left playing the middle of our D can hold up long enough to allow some of management's prized toys to give the bulk of the fan base something to look forward to next year.

[dave mcbride]

It wasn't a mirage - they did what they did against NFL also-rans.  We were 9-7.  We lost to good teams and beat bad teams.  That isn't a mirage - it is reality.

488316[/snapback]

woah there! some of those teams may have been mediocre -- the rams, the seahawks, the bengals -- but they weren't mediocre because of their offenses. they were mediocre because of bad defenses. the rams and seahawks were among the best offensive teams in the league last year.