Air Force Coach forced to apologize

[NorCal Aaron]

Just so I understand your position correctly answer this question for me. In your opinion if you randomly selected 2000 African American males, and 2000 Caucasian males and every one of them was the same height, weight, and age, do you feel the African Americans would post as higher 100 meter time, and vertical jump then Caucasians would?

 

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If you took 2000 people of African origin vs. 2000 people of European origin randomly from a global pool and tested them, it would interesting to see the results.

[Mikie2times]

I don't make that assumption because just as many potentially dominant athletes may never compete in a particular organized sport as such.

 

I've seen many powerlifters (white, latino, black, asian) who squat 500-600lbs and can leap on a 36+" plyo box who never played organized sports, and thus never developed the sport specific skills to compete (assuming that physical prowess was enough).

 

Similarly American football has a limited pool. If Am Football had a world following and became part of a global social fabric like soccer you would see untapped resevoirs of talent emerge that would impact the skill positions as well. You're beginning to see it occur in Basketball as the sport becomes more popular world wide.

 

Can you imagine what the pool of available talent would be like if the Soviet or Chinese sports machine had focused on developing American Football players 50 or 60 years ago?

 

I'm not denying what is, I just saying that culture and size of the talent pool are relevant as well.

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Obviously we have no way of knowing what football would be like if it had global appeal, but I still think we have a fairly accurate test group as is. You have 216 million Caucasians in America, and most of them have multiple lineages which should capture the overall world fairly well.

 

In comparison African Americans make up around 35 million people. So your test group consists of a nearly 6 to 1 ratio in favor of Caucasians, and that’s not even counting the fact the African Americans got a very late start in football because of persecution.

 

Considering year after year talent scouts draft fast, explosive players at RB, CB, and WR and over 95% of those players are African American, that’s not enough evidence to suggest they have stronger likelihood of running faster, and jumping higher? Sure a European interest in American football would increase the amount of Caucasians at these positions, but that’s only because the pools 6 to 1 ratio would increase even more.

[Wacka]

When I was in grad school, I was in a discussion about this kind of stuff with a black student in our lab. He agreed that black athletes are generally better. He said it was due to his ancestors chasing after game on the savannah thousands of years ago, while my ancestors (Polish) were sitting around in caves trying not to freeze to death from the Ice Age.

[NorCal Aaron]

When I was in grad school, I was in a discussion about this kind of stuff with a black student in our lab.  He agreed that black athletes are generally better.  He said it was due to his ancestors chasing after game  on the savannah thousands of years ago, while my ancestors (Polish) were sitting around in caves trying not to freeze to death from the Ice Age.

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Savannah covers just a part of the African Continent. Plus your ancestors were probably adept at hunting despite the cold: you be here today and the mammoth is not.

[sweet baboo]

When I was in grad school, I was in a discussion about this kind of stuff with a black student in our lab.  He agreed that black athletes are generally better.  He said it was due to his ancestors chasing after game  on the savannah thousands of years ago, while my ancestors (Polish) were sitting around in caves trying not to freeze to death from the Ice Age.

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a medical student i spoke to gave the "darwin's theory of evolution" approach...the toughest slaves survived the trips to wherever they were shipped to and thus are more genetically and physically equipped for these sports

[RkFast]

Bottom line...if youre white, you NEVER speak about race. To anyone. Ever. In public, it can cost you your job and embarrassment. In private, say at a party among friends, its worse than a fart. If you MUST talk about some socio-political topic, stick to gas prices or Bush bashing. Youll be much safer.

[Kelly the Dog]

It has far less to do with race than it does training.  For example: running from the police after holding up a liquor store is very good training for sprinting.  Ergo, you'd expect blacks, on average, to be faster than whites.  I imagine, given all the crime and violence in New Orleans, we'll be seeing a generation of excellent black swimmers before too long...

(Yes, I'm kidding.    Though when I was VERY young - six or so - I did come up with the theory that blacks were faster than whites because they had to spend so much time running from the slave owners a century and a half ago...)

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Half of that is true. I agree, it's all through training. But there are just as many whites who are fast sprinters while running from all the black criminals in their neighborhoods, and black guys trying to rob them at ATMs, that they should be just as fast as the blacks. But they're simply not. I read somewhere that over 89 % of all whites who are chased by negroes at ATMs get caught from behind. And then beat up. (The article was suggesting that you should just hand over the cash, but should keep the receipt.) So they are not only slower but weaker.

[Spun]

a medical student i spoke to gave the "darwin's theory of evolution" approach...the toughest slaves survived the trips to wherever they were shipped to and thus are more genetically and physically equipped for these sports

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There may be some merit to this approach especially when considering that many slaves died between Africa and the Americas. The conditions on the slave ships were inhumane, unsanitary and breeding grounds for disease. Some of the survivors had incredible immunities. And when considering that many of the Spanish and Portuguese died after coming to the Americas post 1492, we can assume that we all don't have the same immunities and we may have other differences that give us advantages in how we perform in sports.

 

As for the coach and his comments, genetic differences do exist between individuals, races, genders, etc. I assume he was speaking of his personal experience with athletes. My experience with sports from grammar school through college is that the fastest of the fast were of African descent. Heavyweights and flyweights have different advantages in how they box. Taller people have different advantages than smaller people in volleyball. We are not all built the same. Once again, within races and between races differences in how we are built do exist. Why is it that men and women excel at different types of gymnastics? Because men and women are built differently. And men on the high beam poses some additional form of risk...? Isn't it a natural probability that differences occur between races? Of course. I really believe that political correctness gets in the way of real solutions to real problems such as illiteracy and poverty.

 

Rather than sweeping the comments under the rug, the debate is healthy. For too long, differences in how the races were treated went unquestioned and we should know how unhealthy that has been for all of us. We are supposed to have some sort of freedom to speak? So speak, and write.

[sweet baboo]

There may be some merit to this approach especially when considering that many slaves died between Africa and the Americas.  The conditions on the slave ships were inhumane, unsanitary and breeding grounds for disease.  Some of the survivors had incredible immunities.  And when considering that many of the Spanish and Portuguese died after coming to the Americas post 1492, we can assume that we all don't have the same immunities and we may have other differences that give us advantages in how we perform in sports.

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that and harsh slave working conditions after they got to their final destination

[mead107]

if everyone was green we would all be the same and have none of this black is better white trash sh-- . o god the jets are green , make that blue . we should all be blue .

[SDS]

I need to come clean on this issue myself...

 

About 3 years ago (maybe 4?), I once told someone that black people generally had darker skin than white people. Clearly, this was an insensitive remark based upon my own narrow experience of the world.

 

I ask for your forgiveness...

[Spun]

I need to come clean on this issue myself...

 

About 3 years ago (maybe 4?), I once told someone that black people generally had darker skin than white people. Clearly, this was an insensitive remark based upon my own narrow experience of the world.

 

I ask for your forgiveness...

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Ahhhh, what the hay, your forgiven...

[sweet baboo]

I need to come clean on this issue myself...

 

About 3 years ago (maybe 4?), I once told someone that black people generally had darker skin than white people. Clearly, this was an insensitive remark based upon my own narrow experience of the world.

 

I ask for your forgiveness...

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never! you racist bastard!

[rockpile]

That would explain why I sit on my sofa waiting for the hot pockets to cook, instead of chasing deer. You know that actually... ding! ...gotta go.

 

 

When I was in grad school, I was in a discussion about this kind of stuff with a black student in our lab.  He agreed that black athletes are generally better.  He said it was due to his ancestors chasing after game  on the savannah thousands of years ago, while my ancestors (Polish) were sitting around in caves trying not to freeze to death from the Ice Age.

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[Spun]

Okay, I didn't want open a new can of worms but...

 

Don't all those kickers look the same? Or is it their helmets?

[Campy]

A (black) guy I know said he isn't as bothered by the remarks that blacks are better athletes - he takes that as a compliment - but he said the inference that blacks should attend the Air Force Academy to help their football team, is something of a slight.

 

He said he feels that way because of the percentage of blacks in the military versus the percentage of black officers "isn't even close." He's two years away from retiring from the Navy (Master Chief), so I imagine he's seen it firsthand.

[stuckincincy]

So the Air Force coach made a comment after the game with TCU that basically said TCU was a much faster team, largely because they have more African American players, and in his experience African American players tend to be much faster then other players. Here is the link to the story ESPN Story

 

Today he was forced to apologize for the comments, and of course the media onslaught followed. I ask why? Have we become so sensitive about race that we can't even discuss a widely accepted finding by the scientific community? It's not a coincidence that the speed positions in football are dominated by African Americans, along with the 100 meter race, and the Kenyans complete dominance in long distance running.

 

We talk about Jewish people being more susceptible to Tay-Sachs, or Asians being shorter on average then Europeans, but why is it so taboo to point out what seems to be a very obvious result of evolution? How else can you explain the drastic disparity between African Americans in the general population, and the % of "speed" positions they fill in American sports?

 

This whole PC crap is getting a little out of hand.

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PC is the tool used to censure anyone who points out truths about the left. See Goebbels or Lenin...

[Campy]

PC is the tool used to censure anyone who points out truths about the left.

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Yeah that's it. It's a vast left-wing conspiracy.

 

PC could just be a tool used to censor oneself, lest they something that might irritate, annoy, or insult another person. Or make themselves out to look like an arse.

 

Are we too PC? Perhaps. But I just don't see the harm that can come from trying to be considerate of others. But that's just me.

[The Dean]

Jason Sehorn and Nolan Cromwell are the only two I can recall

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First of all, this may be the best and most balanced discussion on race I've seen on TSW (with the exceptions from the usual suspects). Bravo! I also want to point out that LABills, Kelly, Aaron, GG and FFS have made excellent points with which I almost totally agree.

 

With respect to the comment above...I think it's an interesting observation. From what I've seen, read and been told, many high school and college coaches actually coach their white players AWAY from the CB position. They hold a belief that a white guy can't play CB...much in the way coaches used to think a black player wasn't fit for QB. Fast CB candidates are asked to play WR and Safety...almog with other positions. It would be as wrong to thing the reason there are few white CBs is because white guys are slow as it would be to think the reason there were few black QBs is because black guys are dumb. (Man, that's one tough sentence to read...punctuation would be real nice in that baby.)

 

What nobody's raised (OK, FFS did in a way) is that his comments were racist on many levels...one of them is that he insulted his white players...for being white (not for being slow).

 

There are many reasons why saying a particular race is good at something is racist... don't have the time to go into them all right now. But, as the Wallians are doing such a good job. I think I'll TRY to stay out of this one.

[Mikie2times]

With respect to the comment above...I think it's an interesting observation.  From what I've seen, read and been told, many high school and college coaches actually coach their white players AWAY from the CB position.  They hold a belief that a white guy can't play CB...much in the way coaches used to think a black player wasn't fit for QB.  Fast CB candidates are asked to play WR and Safety...almog with other positions.  It would be as wrong to thing the reason there are few white CBs is because white guys are slow as it would be to think the reason there were few black QBs is because black guys are dumb.  (Man, that's one tough sentence to read...punctuation would be real nice in that baby.)

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People did think black QB's were to dumb then, and they simply didn't get developed into QB's because they never played the position. That was obviously way of base, but in no way does that further justify what’s happening to white players at the speed positions today.

 

Plenty of white athletes play the speed positions in high school, its simply impossible for that not to happen with the population difference. I was a CB in high school, and we had two African American players on my team, and throughout my conference 1 African American started at CB out of 15 teams.

 

The disparity comes at the college level when for the first time a coach can actively recruit a certain quality at an each position. Each position becomes ultra specialized, and in the competitive fabric of the game coaches realized certain position were better filled by fast explosive athletes.

 

Oppression and stereo types held back the African American QB, but that’s not what’s holding back today’s white players from playing speed positions. In football today millions is at stake in boosters, revenue, and merchandise sales. Only the best players play, and if a white kid posted a monster combine day like we routinely see African Americans do they will play the speed positions. It’s not like a bunch of white 20 year olds are just walking the streets with a sub 4.4 forty, and 40 inch vertical.