Air Force Coach forced to apologize

[Mikie2times]

So the Air Force coach made a comment after the game with TCU that basically said TCU was a much faster team, largely because they have more African American players, and in his experience African American players tend to be much faster then other players. Here is the link to the story ESPN Story

 

Today he was forced to apologize for the comments, and of course the media onslaught followed. I ask why? Have we become so sensitive about race that we can't even discuss a widely accepted finding by the scientific community? It's not a coincidence that the speed positions in football are dominated by African Americans, along with the 100 meter race, and the Kenyans complete dominance in long distance running.

 

We talk about Jewish people being more susceptible to Tay-Sachs, or Asians being shorter on average then Europeans, but why is it so taboo to point out what seems to be a very obvious result of evolution? How else can you explain the drastic disparity between African Americans in the general population, and the % of "speed" positions they fill in American sports?

 

This whole PC crap is getting a little out of hand.

[mcjeff215]

So the Air Force coach made a comment after the game with TCU that basically said TCU was a much faster team, largely because they have more African American players, and in his experience African American players tend to be much faster then other players. Here is the link to the story ESPN Story

 

Today he was forced to apologize for the comments, and of course the media onslaught followed. I ask why? Have we become so sensitive about race that we can't even discuss a widely accepted finding by the scientific community? It's not a coincidence that the speed positions in football are dominated by African Americans, along with the 100 meter race, and the Kenyans complete dominance in long distance running.

 

We talk about Jewish people being more susceptible to Tay-Sachs, or Asians being shorter on average then Europeans, but why is it so taboo to point out what seems to be a very obvious result of evolution? How else can you explain the drastic disparity between African Americans in the general population, and the % of "speed" positions they fill in American sports?

 

This whole PC crap is getting a little out of hand.

487524[/snapback]

 

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/pc.htm

[NorCal Aaron]

There is a genetic component to athletic success but I wouldn't make a blanket assertion that non-blacks are slower. It has to do with genetics and numbers participating in a given sport. The Eastern block put out some great sprinters, doping notwithstanding. Are people of African (taking in account that continents do not contain a singular homogeneous population) origin simply faster than all other populations world-wide. I doubt it.

 

The limiting factor is amount of explosive muscle fibres you're born with and the ability of your nervous system to recruit said fibres. In the realm of strength/power/speed sports, some populations of folks may hold a genetic advantage prior to training. Just as Sherpas, when not being killed in avalanches, excel at high altitude living.

 

Blacks of West African lineage tend to dominate the ranks of sprinters. I don't have the numbers but it seems the majority of Blacks in the Americas trace their roots to W-A due to historical slave trading routes. That may account for the speed/power advantages for some US athletes.

 

But it's ridiculous to assert that whites are slower. Olympic weightlifters are among the most explosive in the world and have shown they outpace 100m guys for the first 20M. Chinese, Turks Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Bulgarians all dominate. Even Vasili Alexeyev could dunk a basketball.

 

Over the short haul, I'd take Don Beebe any day over any Kenyan distance runner, Sebastian Coe or Leon Lett for that matter.

[boomerjamhead]

I know the general opinion of Bryon Cox around here isn't very favorable. That being said, he had a lot to say about this today and it was basically a non-issue to him. He compared it to Dusty Baker's comments a while back where Dusty said that blacks are better suited for playing in the heat. He agreed that we [society] are too PC and this whole story is way overblown. The dude filling in for Chris Meyers was the one making a big deal about it acting like it was the end of the world and all. What a blowhard that dude is. He reminded me so much of every other white person I know who goes out of thier way to treat black people extra special instead of simply treating them as equals. If you are white and you want everyone to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are not a racist, shut your mouth and let your actions speak for themselves.

[IDBillzFan]

There is a genetic component to athletic success but I wouldn't make a blanket assertion that non-blacks are slower.

487560[/snapback]

Non-blacks. That's funny. First I'm a white guy in California who is actually a part of the minority, and now I'm a non-black minority. Can you imagine that.

 

I don't think that's what he said. He didn't say whites, excuse me...non-blacks...are slower than non-whites, but rather, as I read it, that more non-whites tend to be faster; so maybe the thinking is... if you actively recruit non-white athletes you would actively build a fast roster faster because while there are some fast non-black dudes, there's a whole schittload of really fast non-white dudes.

 

Look at it this way; Must've been 20 years ago that Jimmy The Greek made the same type comment and lost his job, which was unfortunate because I truly enjoyed watching him with Brent Musberger and Phyllis George. Not sure why.

 

But 20 years later and all this dude needs to do is apologize.

 

He should tell them to go !@#$ themselves.

[Kelly the Dog]

There is a genetic component to athletic success but I wouldn't make a blanket assertion that non-blacks are slower. It has to do with genetics and numbers participating in a given sport. The Eastern block put out some great sprinters, doping notwithstanding. Are people of African (taking in account that continents do not contain a singular homogeneous population) origin simply faster than all other populations world-wide. I doubt it.

 

The limiting factor is amount of explosive muscle fibres you're born with and the ability of your nervous system to recruit said fibres. In the realm of strength/power/speed sports, some populations of folks may hold a genetic advantage prior to training. Just as Sherpas, when not being killed in avalanches, excel at high altitude living.

 

Blacks of West African lineage tend to dominate the ranks of sprinters. I don't have the numbers but it seems the majority of Blacks in the Americas trace their roots to W-A due to historical slave trading routes.  That may account for the speed/power advantages for some US athletes.

 

But it's ridiculous to assert that whites are slower. Olympic weightlifters are among the most explosive in the world and have shown they outpace 100m guys for the first 20M. Chinese, Turks Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Bulgarians all dominate.  Even Vasili Alexeyev could dunk a basketball.

 

Over the short haul, I'd take Don Beebe any day over any Kenyan distance runner, Sebastian Coe or Leon Lett for that matter.

487560[/snapback]

If you go under the assumption that most of the males who CAN play professional sports do (as opposed to being insanely talented and then just walking away from it), how do you account for the fact that virtually every speed position in US pro sports is dominated by blacks. There are countless exceptions of fast non-blacks and slow blacks but the numbers are simply and completely overwhelming. CB, WR, RB, KR, PR in football, guards in basketball, base stealers and outfielders in baseball, sprinters and hurdlers in track and field. I don't watch a lot of soccer but it sure seems like every team that has a black guy or two, he's pretty friggin' fast. This is just coincidence?

[NEEDFREDJACKSONNOW]

http://www.ourcivilisation.com/pc.htm

487532[/snapback]

 

"PC" has been around in every society and it chages with the times. What was "PC" when Rosa Parks refused to move out of her seat is not the same as "PC" means now (thank God). If the guy said something offensive to someone, and he said "I'm sorry if that was offensive", who cares? Just respect each other and move on. BTW, I would LOVE really FAST players on MY team....

[GG]

If you go under the assumption that most of the males who CAN play professional sports do (as opposed to being insanely talented and then just walking away from it), how do you account for the fact that virtually every speed position in US pro sports is dominated by blacks. There are countless exceptions of fast non-blacks and slow blacks but the numbers are simply and completely overwhelming. CB, WR, RB, KR, PR in football, guards in basketball, base stealers and outfielders in baseball, sprinters and hurdlers in track and field. I don't watch a lot of soccer but it sure seems like every team that has a black guy or two, he's pretty friggin' fast. This is just coincidence?

487572[/snapback]

 

I think the answer is in both of your posts, a lot of it has to do with genetics, but a lot of it is also dependent on who decides to stay in a sport and continue playing at a very competitive level and where the coaches slot the players at young age.

 

It mirrors the debate that went on years ago on why there were no black QBs. NFL was taking heat for what was a high school coaches' decisions to put his black players at WR/CB and whites at QB. Once you broke the logjam at the high school level, and then started feeding colleges with black QBs, you naturally had the progression to the NFL.

 

If we look at the trends of WRs in the league, you also see a lot more white WRs now (not just slow possession types, either) than you did 10-15 yrs ago. CBs are still predominantly black.

[Mikie2times]

I know the general opinion of Bryon Cox around here isn't very favorable.  That being said, he had a lot to say about this today and it was basically a non-issue to him.  He compared it to Dusty Baker's comments a while back where Dusty said that blacks are better suited for playing in the heat.  He agreed that we [society] are too PC and this whole story is way overblown.  The dude filling in for Chris Meyers was the one making a big deal about it acting like it was the end of the world and all.  What a blowhard that dude is.  He reminded me so much of every other white person I know who goes out of thier way to treat black people extra special instead of simply treating them as equals.  If you are white and you want everyone to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are not a racist, shut your mouth and let your actions speak for themselves.

487568[/snapback]

 

Cox's way of thinking on this issue compared to Myers fill in really reminds me of the Chappelle show debate. Some think the guy is a racist but he's not, he makes mockery of every race, even his own. Some people get it while others view his show as racist and offensive. The problem is the people that find it offensive think they should stand up and protect all those people from the hateful skits, but in reality the people they try and protect enjoy the show, and probably have a much healthier outlook on race then a oversensitive PC freak would ever hope to have.

[Johnny]

There is a genetic component to athletic success but I wouldn't make a blanket assertion that non-blacks are slower. It has to do with genetics and numbers participating in a given sport. The Eastern block put out some great sprinters, doping notwithstanding. Are people of African (taking in account that continents do not contain a singular homogeneous population) origin simply faster than all other populations world-wide. I doubt it.

 

The limiting factor is amount of explosive muscle fibres you're born with and the ability of your nervous system to recruit said fibres. In the realm of strength/power/speed sports, some populations of folks may hold a genetic advantage prior to training. Just as Sherpas, when not being killed in avalanches, excel at high altitude living.

 

Blacks of West African lineage tend to dominate the ranks of sprinters. I don't have the numbers but it seems the majority of Blacks in the Americas trace their roots to W-A due to historical slave trading routes.  That may account for the speed/power advantages for some US athletes.

 

But it's ridiculous to assert that whites are slower. Olympic weightlifters are among the most explosive in the world and have shown they outpace 100m guys for the first 20M. Chinese, Turks Greeks, Armenians, Russians, Bulgarians all dominate.  Even Vasili Alexeyev could dunk a basketball.

 

Over the short haul, I'd take Don Beebe any day over any Kenyan distance runner, Sebastian Coe or Leon Lett for that matter.

487560[/snapback]

 

lol......youre seriously going to make a case for non blacks

 

kzoo was just saying it's obvious to everyone so why make a big deal cause the guy said his school doesnt have enough black athletes to compete with the ones that do

[boomerjamhead]

Cox's way of thinking on this issue compared to Myers fill in really reminds me of the Chappelle show debate. Some think the guy is a racist but he's not, he makes mockery of every race, even his own.  Some people get it while others view his show as racist and offensive.  The problem is the people that find it offensive think they should stand up and protect all those people from the hateful skits, but in reality the people they try and protect enjoy the show, and probably have a much healthier outlook on race then a oversensitive PC freak would ever hope to have.

487579[/snapback]

 

This makes so much sense to me. Great post.

[Pete]

I have had it with PC. Is it wrong to say Asians are better at math then Americans? Is it wrong to state North Koreans tend to be very short? That Dominican's are very good at baseball? All seem to be facts- why cant you say them? Black tend to me much better athletes in sports which entail jumping and sprinting. Doubt me? Name the last 5 white CBs in the NFL? Name the last white 100 yard gold medalist. !@#$ political correctness- I beleive in free speech and freewill!

[Johnny]

I have had it with PC.  Is it wrong to say Asians are better at math then Americans?  Is it wrong to state North Koreans tend to be very short?  That Dominican's are very good at baseball?  All seem to be facts- why cant you say them?  Black tend to me much better athletes in sports which entail jumping and sprinting.  Doubt me?  Name the last 5 white CBs in the NFL?  Name the last white 100 yard gold medalist.  !@#$ political correctness- I beleive in free speech and freewill!

487595[/snapback]

 

wow there is some tough trivia...........white cb.....roger wehrli?

 

thats only one i can think of...

[Pete]

wow there is some tough trivia...........white cb.....roger wehrli?

 

thats only one i can think of...

487609[/snapback]

Jason Sehorn and Nolan Cromwell are the only two I can recall

[NorCal Aaron]

Non-blacks. That's funny. First I'm a white guy in California who is actually a part of the minority, and now I'm a non-black minority. Can you imagine that.

 

487569[/snapback]

 

 

My statement in context refers to peoples not of African descent in terms of world population.

 

Even if you choose to lump all 'Caucasians' into one population group, which I don't, they don't constitute the majority of people on earth.

 

My point wasn't to fuel a pc vs. non-pc debate, just offer an opinion about observed performance differences in sport.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

So the Air Force coach made a comment after the game with TCU that basically said TCU was a much faster team, largely because they have more African American players, and in his experience African American players tend to be much faster then other players. Here is the link to the story ESPN Story

 

Today he was forced to apologize for the comments, and of course the media onslaught followed. I ask why? Have we become so sensitive about race that we can't even discuss a widely accepted finding by the scientific community? It's not a coincidence that the speed positions in football are dominated by African Americans, along with the 100 meter race, and the Kenyans complete dominance in long distance running.

 

We talk about Jewish people being more susceptible to Tay-Sachs, or Asians being shorter on average then Europeans, but why is it so taboo to point out what seems to be a very obvious result of evolution? How else can you explain the drastic disparity between African Americans in the general population, and the % of "speed" positions they fill in American sports?

 

This whole PC crap is getting a little out of hand.

487524[/snapback]

 

It has far less to do with race than it does training. For example: running from the police after holding up a liquor store is very good training for sprinting. Ergo, you'd expect blacks, on average, to be faster than whites. I imagine, given all the crime and violence in New Orleans, we'll be seeing a generation of excellent black swimmers before too long...

 

 

 

(Yes, I'm kidding. Though when I was VERY young - six or so - I did come up with the theory that blacks were faster than whites because they had to spend so much time running from the slave owners a century and a half ago...)

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I'm glad this was moved since it has nothing to do with the Bills and actually quite little to do with sports.

 

The Air Force HC is getting grief from a lot of different people (and also being defended by some) for a lot of different reasons. Some are good reasons and some are bad reason on both side. The silliest things is that many folks seem to want to judge everybody as beung good or bad regardless of their reasons for taking a stand on this issue.

 

Those who are getting on jod case for some politically correct reason, to see themselves on TV flapping their gums or for their own financial profit since they are in the expressingdismay business are giving him grief for bad reasons.

 

However, I think there are are also very good reasons for giving him grief:

 

1. His racial attitudes are un-American- America is a country fiercely commited to the individual. To judge an individual based on some pre-judgment one makes about the individual based on their race, beliefs, or whatever is Un-American. America (at least rhetorically) is committed to a meritocracy. Fast players who can play make the team and sloww players who cannot play do not make the team.

 

An HC should be commited to a meritocracy and even the implication that he make some sort of prejudgment based on his calculation of a statistical racial variation (even if it is true or if it is not) is not the American way.

 

2. There are a number of bad cases in American history where our institutions have prejudged folks based on some criteria (usually false( that fails to uphold a meritocracy and disadvantages the individual (unfortunately usually at a cost to the whole and the final product).

 

Slavery of African-Americans and the Jim Crow laws were simply the worse and longest term of these mistakes (internment of the Japanese, Roosevelt refusing to help the Jews in the concentration camps and other episodes were bad as well and i am glad my country has at least apologized for these acts done in my and other American's names). It simply was stupid of this HC at a US institution to say what he said and ignore the bad history we have of discrimination based on this same type of thinking even if he attributed a positive attribute to the race.

 

3. The Air Force Academy as a whole is in the midst of an investigation of potential problems of a particular religious point of view apparently being preferred in what should be a total meritocracy. Apparently an Episcopalian minister has resigned because of what she alleges is discrimination by evangelicals who control a lot of the school. Perhaps its true and perhaps not but I am glad this issue is being investigated and the chips should fall where they may.

 

The Air Force HC was stupid to make these comments while this issue is being hotly debated.

 

I saw this HC make the esotetric comments about this which seemed stupid to me because they had nothing to do with anything real. I do not think it is correct to depict this as off-hand comments he made in passing since there was also tape of him defending them on Monday and digging himself an even deeper hole defending himself.

 

He apologized publicly on Wednesday but seems in no danger of real sanction like losing his job as this non-military guy is seen as a god on campus because of his record of past success which has earned him the nickname 5=Star.

 

This whole thing seems fairly balanced to me in that he was corrected for his stupidity but no job or financial sanction is being taken and the issue can just go away now.

 

Individuals are individuals.

[Mikie2times]

My statement in context refers to peoples not of African descent in terms of world population.

 

Even if you choose to lump all 'Caucasians' into one population group, which I don't, they don't constitute the majority of people on earth.

 

My point wasn't to fuel a pc vs. non-pc debate, just offer an opinion about observed performance differences in sport.

487614[/snapback]

 

Just so I understand your position correctly answer this question for me. In your opinion if you randomly selected 2000 African American males, and 2000 Caucasian males and every one of them was the same height, weight, and age, do you feel the African Americans would post as higher 100 meter time, and vertical jump then Caucasians would?

 

I'm not saying that white males don't excel at certain sports, or are always going to be slow. I just think enough evidence exists in American sports to indicate those 2000 African Americans would be more likely to post higher 100 meter times, and vertical jumps on average. DB' in the NFL have got to be around 98% black, RB's (excluding FB's) are 100% black, WR are well over 90% black. All these positions require jumping ability, agility, and speed, and blacks simply dominate these positions despite the huge contrast in population.

[justnzane]

alright, while there are exceptions to pure speed among other races (scott posednik, don beebe, et al) The fact is that of all of the sub 10 second 100 m dashes ever run, only one of those times has come from a non-black sprinter. So, at the elite level black sprinters have an advantage. The fact that a coach got yelled at for stating an obvious truth that certain people do not want to hear, is just too retarded and socially backwards. we must accept that certain body frames are better doin certain things.

[NorCal Aaron]

If you go under the assumption that most of the males who CAN play professional sports do (as opposed to being insanely talented and then just walking away from it), how do you account for the fact that virtually every speed position in US pro sports is dominated by blacks. There are countless exceptions of fast non-blacks and slow blacks but the numbers are simply and completely overwhelming. CB, WR, RB, KR, PR in football, guards in basketball, base stealers and outfielders in baseball, sprinters and hurdlers in track and field. I don't watch a lot of soccer but it sure seems like every team that has a black guy or two, he's pretty friggin' fast. This is just coincidence?

487572[/snapback]

 

I don't make that assumption because just as many potentially dominant athletes may never compete in a particular organized sport as such.

 

I've seen many powerlifters (white, latino, black, asian) who squat 500-600lbs and can leap on a 36+" plyo box who never played organized sports, and thus never developed the sport specific skills to compete (assuming that physical prowess was enough).

 

Similarly American football has a limited pool. If Am Football had a world following and became part of a global social fabric like soccer you would see untapped resevoirs of talent emerge that would impact the skill positions as well. You're beginning to see it occur in Basketball as the sport becomes more popular world wide.

 

Can you imagine what the pool of available talent would be like if the Soviet or Chinese sports machine had focused on developing American Football players 50 or 60 years ago?

 

I'm not denying what is, I just saying that culture and size of the talent pool are relevant as well.