The key to this team is all in the numbers

[Rubes]

I think this is pretty much what it all comes down to. Five guys versus four guys. Which group wins.

 

Seems like the five guys would have the advantage most of the time. But not our five guys on the offensive line. Our five guys basically can't handle their four guys. Other teams can generate enough pressure with their four guys that it forces us to do something different, like keeping extra guys in. So we have even fewer guys running patterns, and they have more guys back in coverage. Unfortunately that math doesn't add up for us.

 

Then there's our four guys on the defensive line. There's some talent there, but let's face it, not nearly enough. Our four guys are nearly incapable of beating their five guys and either clogging up holes or getting some pressure on the quarterback. It ain't working. So we need to send blitzers, which occasionally works, but it seems like decent teams can adjust to it. When we're not sending the house, other teams don't need to keep extra guys in to help, which means more guys running patterns, more opportunities for passes to running backs and tight ends.

 

We've got some major problems on the offensive line. I'm not ready to call our right side a failure just yet, cause I think a healthy Villarial and Williams are a solid pair. But if they can't stay healthy, that does us no good. I have no idea what to think of Teague, but my guess is, if it's not clear, it's probably not good. I think we're all hoping Duke and Peters have a solid future on the line, but right now that's more wishful thinking than anything else. We'll see. Maybe Gandy really would make a better guard than tackle. Right now, I'd be willing to try anything.

 

That defensive line is not good, either. Sam is an enigma. I've had enough of Edwards. The Anderson/Bannan monster is a liability. Schobel has some talent, but let's face it, the guy is nothing more than a solid player who can be handled one-on-one by good tackles. Kelsay may continue to improve but he's not even at a Schobel level yet. So we basically have one guy (Sam) who occasionally demands extra help with blocking, but only occasionally. That's a five-on-four matchup that will always favor the offense. Well, unless you're Houston.

 

We need an impact player on this line, someone who demands double-teaming on a consistent basis. Three of our four defensive guys don't come close. Sam does once in a while. That's not enough.

 

Sorry for my rambling. Pretty much all been said already.

[stuckincincy]

I think this is pretty much what it all comes down to. Five guys versus four guys. Which group wins.

 

 

486440[/snapback]

 

Nicely put. Our OL's don't seem to take advantage of the fact that they initiate the play, and the DL seems to be a little slow in negating the OL's advantage.

[yall]

I think this is pretty much what it all comes down to. Five guys versus four guys. Which group wins.

 

Seems like the five guys would have the advantage most of the time. But not our five guys on the offensive line. Our five guys basically can't handle their four guys. Other teams can generate enough pressure with their four guys that it forces us to do something different, like keeping extra guys in. So we have even fewer guys running patterns, and they have more guys back in coverage. Unfortunately that math doesn't add up for us.

 

Then there's our four guys on the defensive line. There's some talent there, but let's face it, not nearly enough. Our four guys are nearly incapable of beating their five guys and either clogging up holes or getting some pressure on the quarterback. It ain't working. So we need to send blitzers, which occasionally works, but it seems like decent teams can adjust to it. When we're not sending the house, other teams don't need to keep extra guys in to help, which means more guys running patterns, more opportunities for passes to running backs and tight ends.

 

We've got some major problems on the offensive line. I'm not ready to call our right side a failure just yet, cause I think a healthy Villarial and Williams are a solid pair. But if they can't stay healthy, that does us no good. I have no idea what to think of Teague, but my guess is, if it's not clear, it's probably not good. I think we're all hoping Duke and Peters have a solid future on the line, but right now that's more wishful thinking than anything else. We'll see. Maybe Gandy really would make a better guard than tackle. Right now, I'd be willing to try anything.

 

That defensive line is not good, either. Sam is an enigma. I've had enough of Edwards. The Anderson/Bannan monster is a liability. Schobel has some talent, but let's face it, the guy is nothing more than a solid player who can be handled one-on-one by good tackles. Kelsay may continue to improve but he's not even at a Schobel level yet. So we basically have one guy (Sam) who occasionally demands extra help with blocking, but only occasionally. That's a five-on-four matchup that will always favor the offense. Well, unless you're Houston.

 

We need an impact player on this line, someone who demands double-teaming on a consistent basis. Three of our four defensive guys don't come close. Sam does once in a while. That's not enough.

 

Sorry for my rambling. Pretty much all been said already.

486440[/snapback]

 

Sprinkle in a dash of bad coaching and you pretty much have it...

[UConn James]

And when we're playing Pittsburgh, our line can't handle three guys.

 

Hmmm. Maybe we've gone about it in the wrong way.... Let's sign Belladonna to the OL! She could probably "handle" the whole opposing D. All at the same time.

[Typical TBD Guy]

POST OF THE YEAR!!! It's why the OL and DL are the most important positions in football.

 

Some teams already know this, and so for them it's only a matter of how to obtain these quality linemen - through great scouting, clever trades, thoughtful free agent pickups, and so forth.

 

Other teams - like Teflon Tom's Bills - aren't even within the ballpark of recognizing how to build a great football team via the lines.

 

What's most puzzling is that Tommy Boy actually did a pretty good job in drafting linemen while with the Steelers. So at some early point during his time with the Buffalo organization, he became all googly-eyed over the skill positions. Maybe Ralph has been interfering too much???? I don't know.

[East Brady]

POST OF THE YEAR!!! It's why the OL and DL are the most important positions in football.

 

Some teams already know this, and so for them it's only a matter of how to obtain these quality linemen - through great scouting, clever trades, thoughtful free agent pickups, and so forth.

 

Other teams - like Teflon Tom's Bills - aren't even within the ballpark of recognizing how to build a great football team via the lines.

 

What's most puzzling is that Tommy Boy actually did a pretty good job in drafting linemen while with the Steelers. So at some early point during his time with the Buffalo organization, he became all googly-eyed over the skill positions. Maybe Ralph has been interfering too much???? I don't know.

486758[/snapback]

I think it's safe to say that Cowher most likely made those picks or at the very least, he demanded that those picks be made. Thats where the conflict started...

[e-dog]

All you have to do is go back and look at his drafts since he's been here. Look at his o-line and d-line picks. Especially d-line because thats where he's used a lot of the 2nd and 3rd rounders on. You see any real talent in those picks ? I see a couple of average at best rotation players. That type of drafting of big men catches up to you. Guess what, that time has arrived. All I know is Pittsburg hasn't missed him any, in fact they have gotten better since he's left.

The Bills will have some extra picks in the '06 draft. They will also have some high first day picks with alot of good linemen in the draft, if he blows this draft they will be looking down a long road back.

[Fan in San Diego]

I agree, post of the year ! Send this to TD please !

[Simon]

All I know is Pittsburg hasn't missed him any, in fact they have gotten better since he's left.

Jerome Bettis

Hines Ward

Joey Porter

Alan Faneca

Dan Kredier

Aaron Smith

Deshea Townsend

Kimo Von Olhoffen

Marvel Smith

 

Gee you don't think any of these guys have anything to do with Pittsburgh's continued success do you? I mean they're only the heart and soul of the Stillers, most of their best players as well as their leaders on both sides of the ball. Couldn't be, they're all Donahoe acquisitions so they must all suck.

Can you find a single other NFL team with that many important core players that have been around that long? It's even more impressive when you consider they were acquired by the previous management and were so good that the new administration couldn't replace them with their own people.

If you want to rip on Donahoe's failure to put together a line that can pass protect well, or rag on his mistakes w/ Phat Pat and Bledsoe, go for it. But implying that his work in P'burgh sucked and was holding them back only makes you look like a fool. All he did in his 9 years there was put together a roster that was 30 games over .500, won 5 division titles, put them in about a dozen playoff games and create a nucleus of talent that they are still relying on 6 years after he's left.

So their best OLineman, their best LB'er, their best reciever, their ProBowl FB and HOF RB, 3 of their starting OLinemen and 4 of their starting Front 7 are Donahoe acquisitions, but yeah they're definitely better off without him.

[e-dog]

Was that core more Cowher or TD ? It'd pretty obvious who Pitt ownership thought was more valuable as they kept Cowher and sent your boy packing.

[Simon]

Was that core more Cowher or TD ? It'd pretty obvious who Pitt ownership thought was more valuable as they kept Cowher and sent your boy packing.

 

Cowher/Colbert took over in 2000 after TD left. Up until then Donahoe called the shots (along with Modrak before he went and built up Philly) but when ownership decided to allow Cowher more say in personell matters, Donahoe decided he didn't like the arrangement so he left. Pittsburgh let him leave because they knew Cowher sold tickets and was the face of the Stillers and the Rooney's figured they could replace Donahoe with another of the proteges they had trained.

And Donahoe is not "my boy" any more than he is yours. "My boy" still rides laundry baskets down the stairs, throws rocks at everything and even at the tender age of 9 is less obnoxious and self-possessed than you.

[e-dog]

Pitt did not "let him leave" more like they told him to leave. It was a power struggle between TD and Cowher and TD lost. Which also may explain some of the very questionable and inexperienced coaching choices he has made in buffalo.

 

From what I've been watching in the NFL the last five years the Steelers are surely not missing him any.

[Simon]

Pitt did not "let him leave" more like they told him to leave. It was a power struggle between TD and Cowher and TD lost. Which also may explain some of the very questionable and inexperienced coaching choices he has made in buffalo.

 

From what I've been watching in the NFL the last five years the Steelers are surely not missing him any.

 

You can put any kind of spin on it that you want if you feel the need to validate your opinion to yourself.

And we'll see how much Pittsburgh misses him when they don't have his acquisitions plastered all over their roster any more. Although with the Rooney's acumen (which I think they passed on to both Donahoe and Modrak) they may very well be all right.

I hope we can say the same for the Bills after you guys run him out of town for "only" producing .500 teams early in his tenure after coming in here and taking over a cap nightmare and an expansion caliber roster.

[Johnny]

You can put any kind of spin on it that you want if you feel the need to validate your opinion to yourself.

And we'll see how much Pittsburgh misses him when they don't have his acquisitions plastered all over their roster any more. Although with the Rooney's acumen (which I think they passed on to both Donahoe and Modrak) they may very well be all right.

I hope we can say the same for the Bills after you guys run him out of town for "only" producing .500 teams early in his tenure after coming in here and taking over a cap nightmare and an expansion caliber roster.

486975[/snapback]

 

on a related note.......i think right now Pittsburgh is THE best team in the NFL bar none

[Simon]

on a related note.......i think right now Pittsburgh is THE best team in the NFL bar none

486983[/snapback]

Tought to argue that one.

I think the Chargers would like another shot at them (although with Marty calling the game it might be a waste of time) and I think the Colts could really sting them unless the Steeler secondary gets healthy(unless the Indy receivers fold up like they have in every singel Colts postseason loss so far). They're also due for a rubber match with the Patriots after last year's split and I think Belichik can eat Cowher and his staff up on game day.

But they just keep beating people up and it's hard to imagine anybody really being able to take it to them when they're at full strength.

Cya

[e-dog]

You can put any kind of spin on it that you want if you feel the need to validate your opinion to yourself.

And we'll see how much Pittsburgh misses him when they don't have his acquisitions plastered all over their roster any more. Although with the Rooney's acumen (which I think they passed on to both Donahoe and Modrak) they may very well be all right.

I hope we can say the same for the Bills after you guys run him out of town for "only" producing .500 teams early in his tenure after coming in here and taking over a cap nightmare and an expansion caliber roster.

486975[/snapback]

 

No that is not spin, that is what happened in Pitt.

It's been five years now, I think Pitt is doing "alright".

Sorry, .500 football doesn't cut it anymore here when your in the 5th year, at least with me it doesn't. The thing that really bothers me is this team is going backwards and thats a problem.

And he still has expansion caliber linemen on this team outside of a few. Not good.

Without even getting into the o-line mess, what do you think of the d-line mess ?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Jerome Bettis

Hines Ward

Joey Porter

Alan Faneca

Dan Kredier

Aaron Smith

Deshea Townsend

Kimo Von Olhoffen

Marvel Smith

 

Gee you don't think any of these guys have anything to do with Pittsburgh's continued success do you? I mean they're only the heart and soul of the Stillers, most of their best players as well as their leaders on both sides of the ball. Couldn't be, they're all Donahoe acquisitions so they must all suck.

Can you find a single other NFL team with that many important core players that have been around that long? It's even more impressive when you consider they were acquired by the previous management and were so good that the new administration couldn't replace them with their own people.

If you want to rip on Donahoe's failure to put together a line that can pass protect well, or rag on his mistakes w/ Phat Pat and Bledsoe, go for it. But implying that his work in P'burgh sucked and was holding them back only makes you look like a fool. All he did in his 9 years there was put together a roster that was 30 games over .500, won 5 division titles, put them in about a dozen playoff games and create a nucleus of talent that they are still relying on 6 years after he's left.

So their best OLineman, their best LB'er, their best reciever, their ProBowl FB and HOF RB, 3 of their starting OLinemen and 4 of their starting Front 7 are Donahoe acquisitions, but yeah they're definitely better off without him. 

486880[/snapback]

 

 

So the question I have is WHAT THE FRIG?

 

How come he hasn't done it here? Let's face it, he hasn't exactly set the world alight with his drafting prowess.

[Bill from NYC]

So the question I have is WHAT THE FRIG?

 

How come he hasn't done it here? Let's face it, he hasn't exactly set the world alight with his drafting prowess.

487010[/snapback]

 

I don't know why Joe, but he appears to have changed his philosophy on day 1 of the draft. The records are here.

[Johnny]

Tought to argue that one.

I think the Chargers would like another shot at them (although with Marty calling the game it might be a waste of time) and I think the Colts could really sting them unless the Steeler secondary gets healthy(unless the Indy receivers fold up like they have in every singel Colts postseason loss so far). They're also due for a rubber match with the Patriots after last year's split and I think Belichik can eat Cowher and his staff up on game day.

But they just keep beating people up and it's hard to imagine anybody really being able to take it to them when they're at full strength.

Cya

487005[/snapback]

 

i can see the colts but we'll see how it plays out........Chargers, i dont see it.......

 

people on this board talk about weak scheduling all the time, i'm not that sold on

 

weak schedules, but as far as scheduling goes i am sold on this.......the difference

 

in the chargers schedule this year puts them n eastern cities 4 times against some

 

tough cookies.....yeah they passed the new england test early with injuries

 

mounting....give bill a chance to piece something together............but they found

 

a way to lose to philly after having been dominated in the first half and coming

 

back and they still travel to indianapolis and washington........the jets is another

 

but that game doesnt look as tough these days, but still east coast........thats 9am

 

sdg time............at the beginning of the year i didnt think they'd win 8 games...i

 

might be wrong...........but i still think they have a great shot at missing the

 

playoffs

[Simon]

No that is not spin, that is what happened in Pitt.

You haven't the foggiest idea what happened in P'burgh. You're just trying to make the scenario fit your agenda.

 

Without even getting into the o-line mess, what do you think of the d-line mess ?

I think he made a mistake letting the wildly underrated PhatPat get away and I said so at the time. You plug a good player next to Sam Adams and have a coachign staff that lets them play instead of too often scheming them way from the ball and I bet the look pretty good. Being one player away from a good defensive front isn't exactly what I would call a mess.

 

So the question I have is WHAT THE FRIG?

 

How come he hasn't done it here? Let's face it, he hasn't exactly set the world alight with his drafting prowess.

And that indeed is the million dollar question man. In an era of quickcutting music videos and graphic "novels" that are 40 pages long, it's tough to preach patience without sounding like a doddering old fool. But if you look at the success he had in Pittsburgh, it took some time. He spent a bunch of years running the scouting dept. and loading the roster with great players like Woodson, Kirkland, JJackson, etc. Then when he took over as GM he just had to make additions to what he already had and in a few years the Stillers started a string of success that still continues.

I think the biggest difffference is that when he got here he had next to nothing to work with. He had Moulds and PhatPat but beside that the OLine was in shambles, the defense was aging and overpaid, the coaching staff was a trouble spot and to top it off they were staring at a slary cap implosion. He basically had to start from scratch like an expansion team except that he didn't get the extra high draft choices, the special free agent "draft" and the few years of cap exemption that those expansion teams did; so essentially he was in worse position than the Houston's and Cleveland's of the world. Since that first year he's managed to assemble a financially sound team that's played about .500 in the toughest division in the NFL and until this year had gotten better every season. And this season is not a real surprising anomoly as I think they realized they weren't going to challenge for a title for the next year or two so they kind of saved their chits for the future(eating Bledsoe's cap hit now insted of stretching it out, not re-signing PhatPat who will be 2-3 years older when the team is ready to contenc, not dumping big bucks into the OLine until next year, etc) and tried to get by on the cheap while the young franchise QB goes through his predictable growing pains.

If this team isn't significantly better by the end of next year (and I don't thikn they're that bad right now), I will be surprised and may join in with those who are ready to move on to different management. But because I've seen enough great results in the past and recognize they've done a credible job in a bad situation here, I'm not ready to tar and feather teh guy every time we get beat.

Cya