who's to say but .........

[Johnny]

i think the bills might have had a better shot at the 1-4 raiders with Losman still at the controls, two straight home games and his 7th coming overall with his 3rd start on the road might have given him the experience to leapfrog holcombs ability

......granted they might not have beaten both the jets and dolphins though........dolphins seemingly still were on their bye week till the second quarter and vinny making his first road start without a training camp

 

 

if holcomb does pull it off then the move i guess will always be considered a good one

 

meanwhile kyle orton is a favorite over a team with a defense the caliber of Baltimore......the two started as virtual equals but orton completed more, even if they were wearing the wrong jersey, and they usually were

 

50 some qb rating is fine for a first year starters first few games............the first quarterback taken in last years draft mustered a 14.2 qb rating in his first game....

[Mikie2times]

i think the bills might have had a better shot at the 1-4 raiders with Losman still at the controls, two straight home games and his 7th coming overall with his 3rd start on the road might have given him the experience to leapfrog holcombs ability

......granted they might not have beaten both the jets and dolphins though........dolphins seemingly still were on their bye week till the second quarter and vinny making his first road start without a training camp

if holcomb does pull it off then the move i guess will always be considered a good one

 

meanwhile kyle orton is a favorite over a team with a defense the caliber of Baltimore......the two started as virtual equals but orton completed more, even if they were wearing the wrong jersey, and they usually were

 

50 some qb rating is fine for a first year starters first few games............the first quarterback taken in last years draft mustered a 14.2 qb rating in his first game....

482528[/snapback]

 

Nobody can tell for sure whether or not JP would have turned the corner by now, but to even say it's a 50-50 chance is a huge leap. JP was playing bad, even worse then the majority of first year starters do. Here is a comparison I did a few weeks ago on the first four starts of recent QB's. Group 1 is players I don’t think we want JP to be associated with, Group 2 are player we would like JP to become.

 

JP Losman- 48% 433 Yards 1TD 2INT

 

Group 1

Harrington - 54% 957 Yards 5TD 5INT

Krenzel- 46% 603 Yards 3TD 5INT

Boller- 53% 468 Yards 2TD 6INT

Carr- 45% 519 Yards 4TD 6INT

Grossman- 50% 664 Yards 2TD 3INT

McNown- 61% 851 Yards 3TD 2INT

Ramsey- 51% 858 Yards 6TD 4INT

Dorsey- 55% 755 Yards 5TD 7INT

 

Average- 52% 709Yards 3.75 TD 4.75 INT

 

 

Group 2

Brees- 59% 608 Yards 4TD 2INT

Brady- 61% 820 Yards 5TD 0INT

Lefwhich- 56% 981 Yards 4TD 8INT

E. Manning- 39% 450 Yards 1TD 6 INT

Pennington- 77% 1005 Yards 6TD 2INT

Big Ben- 71% 761 Yards 5TD 2INT

Palmer- 55% 875 Yards 3 TD 7INT

 

Average- 60% 785 Yards 4TD 3.86INT

 

Out of all 15 QB’s JP is last in yards, tied for last in TD’s, and has a better completion % then only three other QB’s. Of course these statistics guarantee nothing in terms of his future, but considering his first four game put him below Ken Dorsey, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, and Josh McNown, it would be a huge stretch to think he would give us a better chance to win in Oakland then KH.

 

The one encouraging thing I take from this is Eli Manning, check out those god awful numbers. Sure these stats give us a barometer to measure his progress, but some players just break the mold, let’s hope JP is one of those guys.

[Johnny]

Nobody can tell for sure whether or not JP would have turned the corner by now, but to even say it's a 50-50 chance is a huge leap.  JP was playing bad, even worse then the majority of first year starters do. Here is a comparison I did a few weeks ago on the first four starts of recent QB's.   Group 1 is players I don’t think we want JP to be associated with, Group 2 are player we would like JP to become.

 

JP Losman- 48% 433 Yards 1TD 2INT

 

Group 1

Harrington - 54% 957 Yards 5TD 5INT

Krenzel- 46% 603 Yards 3TD 5INT

Boller- 53% 468 Yards 2TD 6INT

Carr- 45% 519 Yards 4TD 6INT

Grossman- 50% 664 Yards 2TD 3INT

McNown- 61% 851 Yards 3TD 2INT

Ramsey- 51% 858 Yards 6TD 4INT

Dorsey- 55% 755 Yards 5TD 7INT

 

Average- 52% 709Yards 3.75 TD 4.75 INT

Group 2

Brees- 59% 608 Yards 4TD 2INT

Brady- 61% 820 Yards 5TD 0INT

Lefwhich- 56% 981 Yards 4TD 8INT

E. Manning- 39% 450 Yards 1TD 6 INT

Pennington- 77% 1005 Yards 6TD 2INT

Big Ben- 71% 761 Yards 5TD 2INT

Palmer- 55% 875 Yards 3 TD 7INT

 

Average- 60% 785 Yards 4TD 3.86INT

 

Out of all 15 QB’s JP is last in yards, tied for last in TD’s, and has a better completion % then only three other QB’s. Of course these statistics guarantee nothing in terms of his future,  but considering his first four game put him below Ken Dorsey, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, and Josh McNown, it would be a huge stretch to think he would give us a better chance to win in Oakland then KH.

482530[/snapback]

 

as it would be a huge stretch to put kelly holcomb in the company of any of the group 2 quarterbacks before penningtons rotator cuff injury...........and like you say about eli manning, how bad will he look before showing marked improvement.......with that pedigree, and what he had shown at ole miss, sooner or later he would catch on, the trick is not giving up on him which is what you can say has happened to everyone of the qb's in group 1, less Carr, but the group 2 guys werent moved in and out of the line up

 

surely a guy from Tulane whom a team traded for to get in the first round of an nfl draft is more promising than an undrafted guy from Middle Tennessee State.......

[Mikie2times]

as it would be a huge stretch to put kelly holcomb in the company of any of the group 2 quarterbacks before penningtons rotator cuff injury

482531[/snapback]

 

I'm far from somebody who thinks Kelly Holcomb is a savior, but he gives us a chance right now, and JP was not doing that.

 

We had two choices, let JP play and learn, which would likely give us a no chance this season, or let Holcomb play until we get knocked out of contention. Neither decision is incorrect, it's just that one provides more instant gratification then the other.

[Johnny]

I'm far from somebody who thinks Kelly Holcomb is a savior, but he gives us a chance right now, and JP was not doing that.

 

We had two choices, let JP play and learn, which would likely give us a no chance this season, or let Holcomb play until we get knocked out of contention. Neither decision is incorrect, it's just that one provides more instant gratification then the other.

482532[/snapback]

 

i agree that by week 5 holcomb was still the best chance to win, and he was at week 1, but i just cant understand letting bledsoe walk and handing the job to Losman without competition.....

 

winning i believe starts with the gm getting the players who are able to win and then giving them a coach to motivate and get the most of the players given.......

 

the gm and coach rightfully can be second guessed, cause they are second guessing their own decisions

[Mikie2times]

but i just cant understand letting bledsoe walk and handing the job to Losman without competition.....

482533[/snapback]

 

We had two choices at the start of this season, take your lumps, or compete for a spot. Sure everybody likes to document Pittsburgh as accomplishing both at the same time, but it's pretty obvious that was a rare situation.

 

Had we started Kelly all along we would probably be sitting at 4-2, or perhaps 5-1. The only game we didn’t have a prayer was TB. Instead after 4 weeks we tried righting the ship, and the result might be the double whammy, JP's progression getting hurt, and missing the playoffs.

 

I fault the Bills for not making a decisive decision either way, not for making the change. It's not as if this was some unforeseeable event, hell I even posted on it prior to the season.

 

Of course the one way to save face is by making the playoffs, because if they fall just short it will even further magnify this mistake.

[jester43]

Nobody can tell for sure whether or not JP would have turned the corner by now, but to even say it's a 50-50 chance is a huge leap.  JP was playing bad, even worse then the majority of first year starters do. Here is a comparison I did a few weeks ago on the first four starts of recent QB's.  Group 1 is players I don’t think we want JP to be associated with, Group 2 are player we would like JP to become.

 

JP Losman- 48% 433 Yards 1TD 2INT

 

Group 1

Harrington - 54% 957 Yards 5TD 5INT

Krenzel- 46% 603 Yards 3TD 5INT

Boller- 53% 468 Yards 2TD 6INT

Carr- 45% 519 Yards 4TD 6INT

Grossman- 50% 664 Yards 2TD 3INT

McNown- 61% 851 Yards 3TD 2INT

Ramsey- 51% 858 Yards 6TD 4INT

Dorsey- 55% 755 Yards 5TD 7INT

 

Average- 52% 709Yards 3.75 TD 4.75 INT

Group 2

Brees- 59% 608 Yards 4TD 2INT

Brady- 61% 820 Yards 5TD 0INT

Lefwhich- 56% 981 Yards 4TD 8INT

E. Manning- 39% 450 Yards 1TD 6 INT

Pennington- 77% 1005 Yards 6TD 2INT

Big Ben- 71% 761 Yards 5TD 2INT

Palmer- 55% 875 Yards 3 TD 7INT

 

Average- 60% 785 Yards 4TD 3.86INT

 

Out of all 15 QB’s JP is last in yards, tied for last in TD’s, and has a better completion % then only three other QB’s. Of course these statistics guarantee nothing in terms of his future,  but considering his first four game put him below Ken Dorsey, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, and Josh McNown, it would be a huge stretch to think he would give us a better chance to win in Oakland then KH.

 

The one encouraging thing I take from this is Eli Manning, check out those god awful numbers.  Sure these stats give us a barometer to measure his progress, but some players just break the mold, let’s hope JP is one of those guys.

482530[/snapback]

i get your point, but i think your sample is too small. elway and bradshaw were both horrible when they first started, but you know who looked really good in his first start? gary marangi.

 

but meanwhile, we need to put the best players on the field and try to win some football games. personally, i don't think losman would have turned any corner by now because he looked like total sh--, and was obviously completely frustrated and in over his head. however, taking a step back and WATCHING, now that he has seen some real action, will probably do him a world of good. not many people seem to agree, but i think the benching was the best thing for both the team AND j.p. losman.

[BillnutinHouston]

Not that I disagree with the QB change, but it's amazing to me how quickly people forget that nearly the entire team played poorly in games 2-4. To hang all the losses on JP is pretty superficial analysis.

[Nanker]

Not that I disagree with the QB change, but it's amazing to me how quickly people forget that nearly the entire team played poorly in games 2-4.  To hang all the losses on JP is pretty superficial analysis.

482673[/snapback]

 

Last year MM got the ball rolling and The Bills on track by tossing Bobby Shaw overboard.

This year he gave the sheep hook to JP.

 

Cheeseburgers, or whatever works. I don't care.

[Mikie2times]

Not that I disagree with the QB change, but it's amazing to me how quickly people forget that nearly the entire team played poorly in games 2-4.  To hang all the losses on JP is pretty superficial analysis.

482673[/snapback]

 

I don't know if this was directed at me, or just in general, but I agree that the losses shouldn't all be pinned on JP. When JP was in the QB position wasn't getting any production, and the rest of the team wasn't playing that well. With Holcomb in he's been able to do enough when you combine the improved play elsewhere. It may not have been all JP's fault, but as the coaches recognized we couldn't be a playoff caliber team getting that kind of production at the QB position.

[Mike32282]

Last year MM got the ball rolling and The Bills on track by tossing Bobby Shaw overboard.

This year he gave the sheep hook to JP.

 

Cheeseburgers, or whatever works. I don't care.

482718[/snapback]

 

That's an interesting way of looking at it. But Mularkey really got the ball rolling last year when he moved Willis McGahee up the depth chart and named him the starter.

[finknottle]

Nobody can tell for sure whether or not JP would have turned the corner by now, but to even say it's a 50-50 chance is a huge leap.  JP was playing bad, even worse then the majority of first year starters do. Here is a comparison I did a few weeks ago on the first four starts of recent QB's.  Group 1 is players I don’t think we want JP to be associated with, Group 2 are player we would like JP to become.

 

JP Losman- 48% 433 Yards 1TD 2INT

 

Group 1

Harrington - 54% 957 Yards 5TD 5INT

Krenzel- 46% 603 Yards 3TD 5INT

:

482530[/snapback]

 

Good number-crunching - thanks.

 

As for the comments that the sample size was too small, with Elway and Bradshaw getting mentions, I think we have to realize that it's a different game today with starters typically having less time in the system. I'd be reluctant to go back more than 5 years for a meaningfull comparison.