Ransom observations on the game

[Kelly the Dog]

Ridiculous.  People think JP wasn't given the chance to dink and dunk but the fact of the matter is that in a large portion of those incompletions, the primary option was a short route, but Losman never hit them.  Often times he'd just throw over everyone's head or just chuck it out of bounds because he doesn't have the confidence in his accuracy to thread the needle on short passes.

 

If you really think JP would have won the past two games, you are dreaming.  He's just not there yet.

477937[/snapback]

The atlanta game was all 5 and 7 step drops deep in the pocket. Earlier in this thread I showed where the ball was thrown. They were not short options on three step drops where the QB was throwing the ball quickly like half of KH's passes, especially to the WRs. They simply werent the same kind of plays. The one time KH went back deep in the pocket with a 7 step drop he threw a horrible pass for an interception. Jp was being asked to do that all day.

[Kelly the Dog]

There's a play in the first half that I thought showed exactly why JP had not become an effective "steward" of our offense yet- it was a 6 man blitz that was impossible for Holcomb not to see, the extra bodies were at the line well before the snap. Holcomb trusted the blocking scheme and threw downfield for a good gain- it may have been a slant to EMoulds- and the blocking was good enough to make the Jets pay for the weak coverage.

 

This is exactly the type of play that JP spent the preseason and his regular season starts bailing out of. It's understandable that he wants to rely on his good feet, but the cost to the team is too high- we can't afford to miss those opportunities when our blockers do their job and give the QB the time to let the play develop. What we've seen from JP so far has been a reliance on his wheels that is not the stuff of which NFL Championships are made. Clearly the coaching staff carries some of the blame for the problem since they heavily promoted him using his legs for the whole time he's been with us until they realized it was seriously hurting his development. The bad news for them is they now have to correct it, and JP shows some resistance to the discipline areas for a QB, areas like getting your feet down and sliding or trusting the pocket and running through his progressions.

 

The great news is that so far Losman's maturity, plus the fact that he had a similar situation happen to him at Tulane with Patrick Ramsey, has kept the goal of the team game in focus. And the film that Sam Wyche can sit JP through of Holcomb trusting the pocket is the greatest example of what the team needs JP to do- the questions that are left though are:

 

A) Will he be able to absorb those lessons and play from the pocket?

 

and;

 

B) When is the right time to see if he's picking up A)?

 

They're very difficult questions, but ones that are almost sure to go unanswered as long as we're in first place in our division. As much as this coaching staff would like to get JP back on the field, I don't think there's anything JP can do to make that happen- the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills right now will be decided exclusively on the play of Kelly Holcomb and not the potential of JP Losman.

477944[/snapback]

I totally agree with all of that. KH, however, always would have been better than JP at that play. From game 1,2,3,4 or 5. That was a given. JP WILL someday be as good or better than KH at that. It will just be a little later now. KH should be the starting QB for the Bills now, for game 7, because of the decisions that have been made so far. I am happy with that. He gives them the best chance to win, by a small margin. That doesn't negate the fact that I think given all the opportunities in the game, JP could have done different things, and gotten a win.

[VABills]

The atlanta game was all 5 and 7 step drops deep in the pocket. Earlier in this thread I showed where the ball was thrown. They were not short options on three step drops where the QB was throwing the ball quickly like half of KH's passes, especially to the WRs. They simply werent the same kind of plays. The one time KH went back deep in the pocket with a 7 step drop he threw a horrible pass for an interception. Jp was being asked to do that all day.

477974[/snapback]

Then you are so smart, because they were talking with Moulds about this and he said the sh-- JP was running was so vanilla and so dumbed down that the defenses knew the play. Moulds told them with Holcomb the play book was more open and more diverse, because JP just could not get it. They reiterated this several times during the game.

 

Not to disagree with you, but you're wrong. JP was not doing 7 step drops he was rolling a lot, and he has no touch or accuracy, adding to his moving while throwing just made it worse.

[Buftex]

I totally agree with all of that. KH, however, always would have been better than JP at that play. From game 1,2,3,4 or 5. That was a given. JP WILL someday be as good or better than KH at that. It will just be a little later now. KH should be the starting QB for the Bills now, for game 7, because of the decisions that have been made so far. I am happy with that. He gives them the best chance to win, by a small margin. That doesn't negate the fact that I think given all the opportunities in the game, JP could have done different things, and gotten a win.

477981[/snapback]

 

 

Amen!

[Kelly the Dog]

Then you are so smart, because they were talking with Moulds about this and he said the sh-- JP was running was so vanilla and so dumbed down that the defenses knew the play.  Moulds told them with Holcomb the play book was more open and more diverse, because JP just could not get it.  They reiterated this several times during the game. 

 

Not to disagree with you, but you're wrong.  JP was not doing 7 step drops he was rolling a lot, and he has no touch or accuracy, adding to his moving while throwing just made it worse.

477982[/snapback]

The play book dumbed down and vanilla calls have precisely zero to do with calling deep drops or short drops. He rolled out from those deep drops. KH had few, complete playbook or completely dumbed down.

[CoachChuckDickerson]

Holcomb is getting the ball to WRs on plays that are quick drops and one receiver and the ball is out of his hands. He does that well. It is not nearly what JP was wasked to do 90% of the time.

477828[/snapback]

 

Are you serious? You can even look as far back as the preseason. JP was barely a 50% passer even then while JP was completing 75%. It is the same offense.

[Kelly the Dog]

Are you serious? You can even look as far back as the preseason. JP was barely a 50% passer even then while JP was completing 75%. It is the same offense.

478090[/snapback]

Nuff said. Man, is the retard rodeo really out in force even after a nice win.

[MDH]

Are you serious? You can even look as far back as the preseason. JP was barely a 50% passer even then while JP was completing 75%. It is the same offense.

478090[/snapback]

 

Actually, its not the same offense. The offense under JP was simplified so he'd have less decision making to do. Obviously, this makes it easier on the QB but it also makes it easier on the D to defend. If JP's first few reads were covered he was SOL whereas Holcomb has the entire field to work with. I'm not claiming that this was a bad move by the Bills coaching staff, obviously it wasn't as JP just hasn't grasped the entirety of the offense yet. But to claim that this is the "same" offense simply isn't true.

[Kelly the Dog]

Actually, its not the same offense.  The offense under JP was simplified so he'd have less decision making to do.  Obviously, this makes it easier on the QB but it also makes it easier on the D to defend.  If JP's first few reads were covered he was SOL whereas Holcomb has the entire field to work with.  I'm not claiming that this was a bad move by the Bills coaching staff, obviously it wasn't as JP just hasn't grasped the entirety of the offense yet.  But to claim that this is the "same" offense simply isn't true.

478104[/snapback]

It doesn't matter one bit whether it's the same offense or not. There are 1000 plays in the offense. What matters is the plays that are worked on in the week and called in the game. The idea was that JP would not be forced to win the game, and he would throw short passes and use his legs to move the pocket, etc. What happened was just the opposite. That is what they put in for KH and the kind of plays they called for him, not JP. Most of the time, JP had deep drops and much deeper routes and many more decisions to make on the play, whether it was the dumbed down playbook or not. KH is getting back and throwing quick passes, mostly to his first read. Not always but the majority of the passes. he hasn't thrown many down the field let alone completed them. JP was asked to do MORE than KH, not less, when it should have been the other way around.

[BuffOrange]

You keep saying this but it simply isn't true. Except for a few series where DeAngelo Hall was getting his shoulder checked out, teh Falcons had 3/4 of their starting secondary on the field. So that "3rd string secondary" you keep harping about was actually only missing 1 starter. It's like saying the Bills would be sporting a 3rd string secondary if Kevin Thomas was in for Terrence McGee. 

477709[/snapback]

 

Well here are the facts:

Hall's backup Alan Rossum was also injured so they WERE going with their 3rd string CB on that side for some time.

The other starting CB Jason Webster was also injured, so they were down to a total of 3 CB's. So a better Bills analogy would be Clements out for a half, as well as Kevin Thomas (or Eric King or whoever) AND Terrance McGee out for the whole game.

If you're going to be smug at least be right.

[Simon]

a better Bills analogy would be Clements out for a half, as well as Kevin Thomas (or Eric King or whoever) AND Terrance McGee out for the whole game.

If you're going to be smug at least be right.

Actually it would be Clements out for a few series in the 2nd quarter, not the entire half. And I chose KThomas as teh 3rdstring CB at the bottom of the depth chart, intelntionally passing up Jabari Greer and Eric King to make it closer to the Falcons scenario. AND I was already talking about TMcGee out for the whole game.

So a better Bills analogy would be if Clements missed a couple series and Kevin Thomas was in for Terrence McGee. Which is pretty much what I was already saying.

If you're going to be wrong, at least try not to be repetitive.

[BuffOrange]

And I chose KThomas as teh 3rdstring CB at the bottom of the depth chart, intelntionally passing up Jabari Greer and Eric King to make it closer to the Falcons scenario.

478175[/snapback]

 

I guess I missed that subtle piece of creativity. Are you sure Scott & Carpentar played the whole way? I thought one of them got hurt as well.

Perhaps you are right and Bill Mass made their situation a much bigger deal than it actually was. If so, my fault for believing him after he referred to Elway's 'the drive' as happening on "this field right here" last week (they were in Denver and I could've sworn that game was in Cleveland).

In any case it doesn't change the big picture that the Jets and Dolphins are every bit as good as Atlanta defensively and certainly better than the Saints. I saw Lenny P's scouts rip apart the ATL starting safties last week, and it looks like they had another lousy game vs. the Aints this week.

[Simon]

I guess I missed that subtle piece of creativity.  Are you sure Scott & Carpentar played the whole way?  I thought one of them got hurt as well.

Perhaps you are right and Bill Mass made their situation a much bigger deal than it actually was.  If so, my fault for believing him after he referred to Elway's 'the drive' as happening on "this field right here" last week (they were in Denver and I could've sworn that game was in Cleveland).

In any case it doesn't change the big picture that the Jets and Dolphins are every bit as good as Atlanta defensively and certainly better than the Saints.  I saw Lenny P's scouts rip apart the ATL starting safties last week, and it looks like they had another lousy game vs. the Aints this week.

478227[/snapback]

As far as I know both Scott and Carpenter went the whole way. And I won't argue with you as to their effectiveness. Scott is a Nit so I won't give him the business but the day Keion Carpenter left our secondary I had a huge smile on my face.

As for the announcers, they are paid and encouraged to make everything seem about 10X more important than it is. I'm sure one of them (or their spotters) saw a guy on the field that teh Falcons had recently added to the squad and decided to crank up the hype machine with repeated screeches of how the Falcons secondary was composed entirely of one-legged dwarfs on roller skates who just narrowly escaped from isolated Tibetan prison camps moments ago!!!!!

And I like the Atlanta front7 enough to think they can be a more effective than either the jest or phish, but agree that outside of the dynamite DeAngelo Hall that their secondary leaves something to be desired; regardless of whether its being manned by starters or by little blind girls who are out of place because they're usually battling super-terrorists with vials of flesh-eating bacteria!!!!!

Cya

[Jon in Pasadena]

You're correct.  The problem is Crowell cannot shed blocks like Flecther and Spikes can.  Therefore, the stunting that Adams does, put a clear blocker on Crowell and allows the RB to get major yardage if Adams misses.

477755[/snapback]

Hey, maybe in practice this week they can dump a bucket of wings down Crowell's shorts and tell Mike Williams about it. Bet that'll teach Angelo how to shed blocks in a hurry!

[Dan Gross]

Hey, maybe in practice this week they can dump a bucket of wings down Crowell's shorts and tell Mike Williams about it. Bet that'll teach Angelo how to shed blocks in a hurry!

479612[/snapback]

 

or his pants...