Ransom observations on the game

[ganesh]

Holcomb is still very new to the offense and didn't get much time with the starters until now.  I still think he'll get better.

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I think he has throw more interceptions and fumbled the ball than JP.

 

The biggest difference is he has been accurate on his dink and dunks....

But then JP was not given much of a chance to be a dink and dunk QB,

asking him to throw lots of mid-range and long passes.

[ganesh]

JP wouldn't have won these past two games.  NO is a friggen joke!  GB annihilated them and they don't have nearly the D that we do.  We could  not move the ball against them.

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KH is yet to play a road game....The dome noise at SA was mentioned the

loudest....

I think the circumstances are completely different....

 

Good D/STs, games at home against avg. opponents...and we almost blew

both the games....don't forget that...

[GG]

It's impossible to say. People arguing against JP just completely forget that he was rather efficient at home in his first game against Houston. He was on target with a lot of his passes. He led the team down the field 5 times in a row and scored 22 points. And yet KH's first game, against Miami, which was rather similar, is just treated as though that is great and JP's first game didnt exist.

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Actually, I haven't forgotten about the Houston game, especially when the pathetic Texans defense stifled the Bills' O in the second half.

 

You state the position that somehow Holcomb has benefitted from a lot of things that JP hadn't. But if I recall in the Atlanta game, JP was given some decent situations and was still shaky.

 

If I need to revert to a cliche description of the offense, it would be rhythm. There was zero rhythm to the offense when JP was in there, and I have to side with Clements that it's very hard to get into the game flow when you can't count on your QB to consistently make routine plays that a QB should make. With Holcomb in there, you get a self fulfilling prophecy of everything clicking because there's more confidence by the players in the execution by the QB.

 

A big stat that's been evident with Holcomb in there is getting the ball to his WRs. You can surmise that Clements' playcalling didn't instruct JP to throw to the WRs, but I highly doubt that.

 

We can get on the merrygoround again of what this team should do this year - try to have a more realistic shot at winning games with Holcomb under center, or develop JP as the future QB.

 

The coaches thought that maybe they could win and develop JP at the same time. They were wrong. They were wrong in not having a true competition for the starting job in camp. As I told you, it's likely the fallout from the bungled way they dropped Bledsoe (the right decision, btw).

 

But, I'm glad that they admitted the mistake in week 4, and still have a decent shot of winning the division.

[BuffaloBud]

One thing that not too many people have brought up is how Tim Anderson has filled in nicely for R Edwards.

[Coach Tuesday]

My observations:

 

1) Holcomb excels at one thing in particular: getting rid of the ball quickly. He gets rid of the ball faster than any Bills QB in recent memory, including Jimbo. This is a HUGE factor in our success the last two weeks, especially on third down, where Holcomb really excels. IMO the biggest difference between JP's play and Kelly's play is on third down, where Holcomb seems to know exactly where to go and he goes there quickly (I HAVE to think that those slants to Moulds were there for JP, but he just couldn't make them happen).

 

2) Willis looked the best I've seen him since his U of M days. I'll leave it at that.

 

3) FYI, here's what happened on Martin's 2 long runs: on the first one, Anderson lost his balance, and was quickly escorted to the turf by (I think) Kendall. I didn't think Anderson played poorly - but does anyone else think that Bannan is outplaying him right now? On the second one, Crowell overran his assignment and was sealed off. He made up for it on the next play. These kinds of things are going to happen in Gray's defense - one guy misses an assignment and you're gonna give up a long run. This isn't something that's new - it's happened once or twice a game for every game Gray's been here - save a few games last season.

 

4) Josh Reed made some amazing blocks yesterday

 

5) Can't wait to see Parrish and Everett in this offense

 

6) Was someone giving Adams the snap count in advance? Don't expect him to be able to do that stuff on the road

 

7) People rightly criticize KH for his bonehead interception inside his 20 - but let's face it, Jimbo did that once a game - I can live with it

 

8) Gray must've told Eric King to get in Chrebet's head early and often - and it worked. Whatever the kid did, he totally distracted Chrebet and pissed him off - good to see

 

9) Finally, Clements called a better game, but why, oh why, does he have to be too clever by half? 3rd and less than 1 in the red zone, RUN THE DAMN BALL. So many bad things could've happened on that stupid pass to Shelton - his dropping the ball was actually the best result we could've hoped for on that play (I was worried he'd catch it and get hit right away, fumbling).

[Kelly the Dog]

Actually, I haven't forgotten about the Houston game, especially when the pathetic Texans defense stifled the Bills' O in the second half.

 

You state the position that somehow Holcomb has benefitted from a lot of things that JP hadn't.  But if I recall in the Atlanta game, JP was given some decent situations and was still shaky. 

 

If I need to revert to a cliche description of the offense, it would be rhythm.  There was zero rhythm to the offense when JP was in there, and I have to side with Clements that it's very hard to get into the game flow when you can't count on your QB to consistently make routine plays that a QB should make.  With Holcomb in there, you get a self fulfilling prophecy of everything clicking because there's more confidence by the players in the execution by the QB. 

 

A big stat that's been evident with Holcomb in there is getting the ball to his WRs.  You can surmise that Clements' playcalling didn't instruct JP to throw to the WRs, but I highly doubt that.

 

We can get on the merrygoround again of what this team should do this year - try to have a more realistic shot at winning games with Holcomb under center, or develop JP as the future QB. 

 

The coaches thought that maybe they could win and develop JP at the same time. They were wrong.  They were wrong in not having a true competition for the starting job in camp.  As I told you, it's likely the fallout from the bungled way they dropped Bledsoe (the right decision, btw).

 

But, I'm glad that they admitted the mistake in week 4, and still have a decent shot of winning the division.

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I am not unhappy with the wins at all, or the way the offense is playing and I think KH is doing a very good job, all he can do, and exactly what he was expected to do. And I don't know how many more times or different ways I can say that.

 

You don't think there was an equal "figuring out" or lack of production for KH in the second half of the Dolphin game? All I said was that they were very similar performances and I stick to it. KH just completed a few more short passes.

 

The offense definitely has a better rhythm with KH. A lot of that is do to his decision making, and he is doing it well. JP was doing it poorly the last couple games. My point was only that I thought that at home, against crappy teams, running Willis, with all the turnovers, with all the Miami penalties, with TC calling short safe passes, the Bills likely win both games, IMO. People act like it was impossible for him to throw accurate passes. He threw quite a few of them. What he had trouble with was 5 and 7 step drops with long patterns and crappy blocking, he would get jittery in the pocket and not be able to look off his receivers and then would try to gun it in at 100 mph. If he were given WR screens and short slants and roll outs to the TE more and the screen to Willis that was run yesterday and easier passes and pass plays instead of 20,30,40,50 yard passes, he wouldnt be under 50%. Holcomb is getting the ball to WRs on plays that are quick drops and one receiver and the ball is out of his hands. He does that well. It is not nearly what JP was wasked to do 90% of the time.

[stevewin]

One of the other differences with Holcombe in there which hasn't really been discussed is what players have been saying about how the offense was too dumbed down with JP in there - because that is only what (rightly or wrongly) the coaches thought he could handle. With Holcombe in there it seems like they are able to have more variety - and Holcombe definitely is able to execute the timing routes effectively, and spread the ball around. With JP in there teams were not respecting the pass at all, be it a combination of them keying off on the 'vanilla' pass offense and/or lack of respect for JP to execute. Even if they did call Willis' number more w/ JP in there - no one can say it would have resulted in as much success as the last couple games simply because teams were playing the run more w/ JP in there and the pass offense was not converting any 1st downs or making enough plays to make the defense respect it.

 

McGee is great - one thing I've noticed a couple times lately is a willingness for him to run backwards to try to break one to the opposite field if he hits congestion. It hasn't been a problem yet - because he still is initially moving straight upfield to begin with - I just hope he doesn't get into a habit of dancing and running backward at the expense of getting positive yards straight upfield.

 

Moorman needs to spend all practice working on getting his short kicks inside the 20. He has been awful this year. The net 13 yds on the last punt straight into the endzone is inexcusable. I've already posted my extreme disdain for the stupid kick straight down the middle Learn to kick for the corner!!!!!

 

I'm also interested for tape reviewers to analyze where the breakdown was on the two long runs.

 

Mike Williams got beat badly early in the game on pass protection and seemed to be limping badly and I thought it was going to be a long game for pass protection on that side. I saw him get help a couple times after that - but he did seem to step it up as well.

 

I remember a few/couple years ago Adams was getting unbelievable jumps off the ball and he used say he was not guessing the count - he was just coming off it so fast it looked like he was offsides. After yesterday I do wonder if he is guessing or really just does get off that fast.

 

The WRs were throwing some GREAT blocks after catches yesterday - particularly Aiken on the first TD, Evans on the 2nd - and Reed destroying that guy on the one Moulds 1st down.

 

The DL was so spread at times, sometimes it looked like they only had 3 down lineman.

 

It was great a couple times to see Willis get a head of steam and just *know* he was going to punish the unfortunate soul(s) in his way and move them backward

[GG]

If he [JP] were given WR screens and short slants and roll outs to the TE more and the screen to Willis that was run yesterday and easier passes and pass plays instead of 20,30,40,50 yard passes, he wouldnt be under 50%. Holcomb is getting the ball to WRs on plays that are quick drops and one receiver and the ball is out of his hands. He does that well. It is not nearly what JP was wasked to do 90% of the time.

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And I refer back to the self-fulfilling prophecy of defenses respecting KH more than JP. Even though KH's arm strength is weaker than JP's, defenses are not as cavalier about crowding the box with him as QB. If I was a defensive coordinator playing vs a virtual rookie QB, I'd throw the kitchen sink at him. With so many people in the box, I don't think that the short stuff is nearly as effective. I recall several WR screens that JP threw that went for an average of 2 yds. CBs can easily press the LoS a lot more without having the fear of JP beating them with the pass.

 

That's why I'm guessing those plays weren't called, because the defenses were called against precisely those plays.

 

Since KH hasn't been able to light up the vertical game, maybe Oakland & NE will press more and we may see the same results from KH as we saw from JP. But I'll take our chances agains both of those teams' secondaries if they overload on the line.

[ganesh]

Actually, I haven't forgotten about the Houston game, especially when the pathetic Texans defense stifled the Bills' O in the second half.

 

You state the position that somehow Holcomb has benefitted from a lot of things that JP hadn't.  But if I recall in the Atlanta game, JP was given some decent situations and was still shaky. 

 

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The biggest thing I think is the veterans like Moulds has bought into a KH

rather than a Losman....Moulds as a Vet should have been helping out the

youngster...but he bitched about him....

 

Hines Ward put Big Ben into making safe plays last year....and running the

ball and playing tough run defense helps a lot.

[Buckeye Eric]

 

11. I may be in the minority, and it's impossible to say, but I still think we win both of these games with JP at quarterback. 

 

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I think that with the intact OL in place yesterday and the ground game JP would have faired fairly well.

 

People would rather blame the coaching and the GMs player selection rather than the simple fact that players must execute on the field. The OL was not executing under Losman.

[Dawgg]

Ridiculous. People think JP wasn't given the chance to dink and dunk but the fact of the matter is that in a large portion of those incompletions, the primary option was a short route, but Losman never hit them. Often times he'd just throw over everyone's head or just chuck it out of bounds because he doesn't have the confidence in his accuracy to thread the needle on short passes.

 

If you really think JP would have won the past two games, you are dreaming. He's just not there yet.

 

I think he has throw more interceptions and fumbled the ball than JP.

 

The biggest difference is he has been accurate on his dink and dunks....

But then JP was not given much of a chance to be a dink and dunk QB,

asking him to throw lots of mid-range and long passes.

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[Dawgg]

Ummm... Moulds spent extra time with Losman during the offseason. He backed the decision to cut Drew and he played his butt off when Losman was on the field. But Losman clearly was not getting it done and the season was in danger of going down the tubes.

 

Hines Ward had the benefit of a rookie QB who "got it" from the moment he stepped on the field. Not to mention, Big Ben was a HUGE upgrade over Maddox. That is not the case in Buffalo. Not only is Losman a downgrade from Holcomb (at this stage), he is not ready yet to be a starter in the NFL.

 

 

The biggest thing I think is the veterans like Moulds has bought into a KH

rather than a Losman....Moulds as a Vet should have been helping out the

youngster...but he bitched about him....

 

Hines Ward put Big Ben into making safe plays last year....and running the

ball and playing tough run defense helps a lot.

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[AKC]

I still think we win both of these games with JP at quarterback.

477514[/snapback]

 

There's a play in the first half that I thought showed exactly why JP had not become an effective "steward" of our offense yet- it was a 6 man blitz that was impossible for Holcomb not to see, the extra bodies were at the line well before the snap. Holcomb trusted the blocking scheme and threw downfield for a good gain- it may have been a slant to EMoulds- and the blocking was good enough to make the Jets pay for the weak coverage.

 

This is exactly the type of play that JP spent the preseason and his regular season starts bailing out of. It's understandable that he wants to rely on his good feet, but the cost to the team is too high- we can't afford to miss those opportunities when our blockers do their job and give the QB the time to let the play develop. What we've seen from JP so far has been a reliance on his wheels that is not the stuff of which NFL Championships are made. Clearly the coaching staff carries some of the blame for the problem since they heavily promoted him using his legs for the whole time he's been with us until they realized it was seriously hurting his development. The bad news for them is they now have to correct it, and JP shows some resistance to the discipline areas for a QB, areas like getting your feet down and sliding or trusting the pocket and running through his progressions.

 

The great news is that so far Losman's maturity, plus the fact that he had a similar situation happen to him at Tulane with Patrick Ramsey, has kept the goal of the team game in focus. And the film that Sam Wyche can sit JP through of Holcomb trusting the pocket is the greatest example of what the team needs JP to do- the questions that are left though are:

 

A) Will he be able to absorb those lessons and play from the pocket?

 

and;

 

B) When is the right time to see if he's picking up A)?

 

They're very difficult questions, but ones that are almost sure to go unanswered as long as we're in first place in our division. As much as this coaching staff would like to get JP back on the field, I don't think there's anything JP can do to make that happen- the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills right now will be decided exclusively on the play of Kelly Holcomb and not the potential of JP Losman.

[cåblelady]

That's because you're continually talking out of your ass, like saying that JP was passing and missing as many 3 and 5 yard outs as he was 10 and 15 and 20 yard outs, and the play-calling was the same for him as KH.

 

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I think I love you, KTD.

 

[Dawgg]

Sure. But you did say that neither should have been TDs and it is this type of qualification that I have a problem with. Holcomb executed a passing play in the red zone and has made accurate, timely throws. Perhaps a lot of it had to do with the effort of the receiver, but there is something to be said about putting the ball in an area where the receiver can make a play.

 

I simply do not agree that Holcomb's TD passes deserve an asterisk besides them. They were TDs and should have been TDs and they are TDs.

 

But yes, agreed.. Holcomb should continue to play.

 

What part of "Neither of the TDs were great plays or throws, and neither should have been TDs, but they were and they count and again, he needs to play. He's doing exactly what he can do and needs to do and we can probably stay in the hunt with him." did you not understand? That they were touchdowns and they count and he needs to play and he's doing what he needs to do and we can win with him and we can stay in the hunt with him? It didn't say they shouldnt count, I said they did count and that's all that matters. And I said he is getting it done, and I didnt say that JP should be playing now.

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[Dawgg]

La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La

 

I think I love you, KTD. 

 

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[Dawgg]

I could not have said this any better.

 

For those of you whining about Holcomb and claiming that JP would have won these games, please read the aforementioned post.

 

Thank you.

 

There's a play in the first half that I thought showed exactly why JP had not become an effective "steward" of our offense yet- it was a 6 man blitz that was impossible for Holcomb not to see, the extra bodies were at the line well before the snap. Holcomb trusted the blocking scheme and threw downfield for a good gain- it may have been a slant to EMoulds- and the blocking was good enough to make the Jets pay for the weak coverage.

 

This is exactly the type of play that JP spent the preseason and his regular season starts bailing out of. It's understandable that he wants to rely on his good feet, but the cost to the team is too high- we can't afford to miss those opportunities when our blockers do their job and give the QB the time to let the play develop. What we've seen from JP so far has been a reliance on his wheels that is not the stuff of which NFL Championships are made. Clearly the coaching staff carries some of the blame for the problem since they heavily promoted him using his legs for the whole time he's been with us until they realized it was seriously hurting his development. The bad news for them is they now have to correct it, and JP shows some resistance to the discipline areas for a QB, areas like getting your feet down and sliding or trusting the pocket and running through his progressions.

 

The great news is that so far Losman's maturity, plus the fact that he had a similar situation happen to him at Tulane with Patrick Ramsey, has kept the goal of the team game in focus. And the film that Sam Wyche can sit JP through of Holcomb trusting the pocket is the greatest example of what the team needs JP to do- the questions that are left though are:

 

A) Will he be able to absorb those lessons and play from the pocket?

 

and;

 

B) When is the right time to see if he's picking up A)?

 

They're very difficult questions, but ones that are almost sure to go unanswered as long as we're in first place in our division. As much as this coaching staff would like to get JP back on the field, I don't think there's anything JP can do to make that happen- the starting QB for the Buffalo Bills right now will be decided exclusively on the play of Kelly Holcomb and not the potential of JP Losman.

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[cåblelady]

La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La La

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Good one! I'm impressed, Dawgg.

[Dawgg]

I have been eagerly awaiting this opportunity.

 

 

 

Good one!    I'm impressed, Dawgg. 

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[Kelly the Dog]

Sure. But you did say that neither should have been TDs and it is this type of qualification that I have a problem with.  Holcomb executed a passing play in the red zone and has made accurate, timely throws.  Perhaps a lot of it had to do with the effort of the receiver, but there is something to be said about putting the ball in an area where the receiver can make a play.

 

I simply do not agree that Holcomb's TD passes deserve an asterisk besides them.  They were TDs and should have been TDs and they are TDs.

 

But yes, agreed.. Holcomb should continue to play.

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This is a pet peeve of mine, and I understand your stance. On one hand you're right, and I totally agree with you. And I use that kind of example myself. They WERE touchdowns and they DO count and they cannot be dismissed and they will be on record forever as touchdowns. I agree with that, and he threw them and JP didn't.

 

On a totally separate wavelength and argument, I didn't perhaps articulate it well. I only meant to say that they were lucky plays. They were four yard gain plays and it really wasn';t even the extraordinary run after the catch by the receiver, which was also true, they were a direct result of the Jets playing keystone cops. Especially the Not Quite So Fast But Pretty Friggin Shifty Freddie Smith. That was a 3rd and 8 play that 90% of the time is going to be a 4-3 play. He thre it to the five with two Jets in position to make the play. They knocked each other over and he stepped back beautifully and danced into the endzone. I don't think we should be counting those kinds of plays, IN THIS KIND OF ARGUMENT, like, say, the gorgeous two yard pass that Holcomb through to Moulds in the Miami game that JP probably wouldn't have made. The Moulds TD, too, was a 4 yard completion on 2-15. It was a fine throw and put him in a position to do his stuff, but should have been a 4 yard completion. The Jet fell down by himself twice.