The Dean Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 And who/what have you been sucking on this week? 475503[/snapback] Sarcasm tablets!
e-dog Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Are you trying to argue that TD has done an adequate job of addressing the OL? 475735[/snapback] There not that bad Simon ? They are terrible. And out of those eleven players TD brought in, 2 maybe 3 can actually play worth a lick to this point.
Dan Gross Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 So I guess these 11 offensive linemen that I thought TD added to the Bills weren't real? Gee, I really hope he finally addresses the OLine soon. He's been ignoring it too long. 475718[/snapback] Actually, Simon, the fact that TD has had to bring in 11 linemen is pretty damning. The best OL's are not necessarily the ones with Pro-bowlers from LT to RT, but ones that have been together. If any part of the team needs time to gel to work well together it's an OL and one of the key common (granted not all the time, but more often than not) attributes is that the line sees no more than one personnel change from year to year, most frequently none.
NorCal Aaron Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Sarcasm tablets! 475752[/snapback] Rogue and libertine!
Simon Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Actually, Simon, the fact that TD has had to bring in 11 linemen is pretty damning. The best OL's are not necessarily the ones with Pro-bowlers from LT to RT, but ones that have been together. If any part of the team needs time to gel to work well together it's an OL and one of the key common (granted not all the time, but more often than not) attributes is that the line sees no more than one personnel change from year to year, most frequently none. I agree that the Bills have not done a good job in putting together an OLine that can play together year after year. There's very few teams in the league that are able to do this and we are not among them yet. I was just arguing against those who repeatedly say that TD/Modrak haven't adressed the OLine, when they've obviously done quite a bit to attempt to improve it each year. There not that bad Simon ? They are terrible.And out of those eleven players TD brought in, 2 maybe 3 can actually play worth a lick to this point. I haven't seen as much Bills ball as I'd have liked ot so far, but in the action I've seen they've been OK. The only time I thought they looked bad was last weekend when their LT was playing with one arm, the entire right side of the line was on the sidelines and our gimps and scrubs were going up against a front4 that was sporting the likes of Kevin Carter, Vonnie Holliday, Keith Traylor, Jeff Zgonina and Jason Taylor. Yet we still managed to dominate time of possession while putting up enough points with a rusty QB to beat our arch-rivals that were leading the division. But, yeah we're just terrible.
e-dog Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 I can't think of many other adjectives besides " terrible" to describe the o-line play to this point. Well I can but "not bad" isn't one of them.
Stussy109 Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 WRT Villy, I just have a hunch that his time in Buffalo is over after this year. He's getting long in the tooth and has seemed to lack some punch this year. 475448[/snapback] TD was quoted as saying he's THE strongest guy on the team.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 TD was quoted as saying he's THE strongest guy on the team. Maybe historically. But he's getting up there in years.
ans4e64 Posted October 14, 2005 Author Posted October 14, 2005 Next Year with no free agents or picks possibly: LT- Mike Gandy LG- Duke Preston C - Trey Teague RG- Chris V. RT- Mike Williams -Other possibilities could be: LT- Trey Teague LG- Mike Gandy C - Duke Preston RG- Chris V. RT- Mike Williams I think we'll we ok if we can get just 1 either real good guard or tackle in free agency or the draft, then we might at least have some options, but i think we actually need some talent on the line, not just some big MoFo who is so fat he just takes up the spot of the position a.k.a Bennie Anderson
e-dog Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 There are alot of good o-linemen in next years draft, especially tackles. I have to believe they will be using their 1st or 2nd rounder on one of them.
LaDairis Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 TD was quoted as saying he's THE strongest guy on the team. 475809[/snapback] On the bench press, Geisinger has done over 40 reps.
NorCal Aaron Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 On the bench press, Geisinger has done over 40 reps. 475886[/snapback] Which reveals nothing about his football skills.
LaDairis Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Which reveals nothing about his football skills. 475918[/snapback] True, but that was not the question. The question was Villarial the strongest Bill. Geisinger was an ALL SEC OLT his junior year. Give him some time to get used to OG and he'll be a fine player for years. Justin is very bright, athletic, talented, and well built for the NFL OG position.
jarthur31 Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Starting last year, there is too much of a push up the middle when the D rushes the passer. How can that be? It can't be because both guards suck. More and more, things point to the center and I really do hope we use Preston there soon.
Typical TBD Guy Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 It depends on your definition of adequate.If you're one of those guys who flips out every time you see a lineman beat and are convinced he sucks, yet never watches otehr teams but are still convinced they're all much better, and won't be happy until we have the '78 Raiders OLine up front, then of course it hasn't been adequate, and it never will be because your expectations are simply not in line with reality. If you're somebody who recognizes that in the salary cap NFL a team has limited resrources to address unlimited problems, and that the Bills front office has been adding about 3 guys a year trying to find the right combination, then yeah I'd say they've done a decent job trying to address it. I'm sure you'll find something to rail against, but I don't think this OLine is nearly as bad as most of the town criers out there. Cya 475740[/snapback] My definition of adequacy on the OL? Let me try it this way first, by quickly reviewing each player on the current roster: Mike Gandy - adequate as a backup T/G and no more Bennie Anderson - shouldn't be on the team next year in any capacity Trey Teague - adequate as a backup LT/C and no more (for the vet min. next season) Chris Villarial - adequate as a starting RG, when healthy Mike Williams - adequate as a starting RT...after a substantial pay cut Jason Peters - need to see a lot more, but has the talent to be a good starting LT as early as 2 years from now Duke Preston - need to see more, but could be a solid starting C as early as next year Justin Geisinger - way too early to tell, but could potentially be a decent replacement for CV in a couple years Greg Jerman - sucks; shouldn't be on the team next year Ben Sobieski (IR) - won't be in the NFL next year Lawrence Smith (IR) - shouldn't be on the team next year Dylan McFarland (PS) - may not have the size to make it in the NFL Marques Ogden (PS) - his pedigree is intriguing, but I know way too little of him and have never seen him play to say anything more Jasen Esposito (PS) - won't be in the NFL next year Based on this assessment, I'd now say that we are - at best - a starting-caliber LT and LG removed from having a line as early as next season that I would be proud to call "adequate." And so the natural question that follows is whether TD will be able to land a starting-caliber LT and LG this offseason, or whether he even thinks there are problems at these positions. There should certainly be a worthy supply of T's and G's in the first day of the 2006 draft, many of whom could start almost immediately and be relatively cost-effective as well (so he won't have to gut other positions on the team in the process of upgrading the OL). But looking at TD's drafting for the past 5 years as a Bills GM, he's only made 2 day 1 draft picks and 1 day 1 pick within the first 2 rounds on the OL; and NONE in the past 3 years. This is an alarming fact, considering that the OL wasn't in that great of shape in any of these past 3 seasons (in my opinion), and also considering that CV (in my opinion) was the only decent free agent signed to the OL in these 3 past years. In conclusion, I think the Gandy-Anderson-Teague line combination is "inadequate" for getting this offense and team to where we want to go - playoffs, at the very least. If you think this starting trio on the left side of the line is adequate, then we are worlds apart. And also in conclusion, I have about as much confidence in TD finding the necessary pieces to restore the OL to "adequacy" as I did in John Butler doing the same in the 90's. Maybe you think TD is doing an overall satisfactory job of building the OL, but in your posts you also tend to hand out bonus points for "trying" - which I don't. I judge by the end results on the field, and in my judgement the OL has never been good under TD's regime except for that mysterious 8-game stretch of the 2002 season.
Alaska Darin Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Here is another fact.Teague was arguably the Bills best, most consistent OLineman last year. Does that one suck, too? 475392[/snapback] Which is what makes his play this season so stupifying.
Simon Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Which is what makes his play this season so stupifying. 476032[/snapback] Between kids' birthdays, kayak trips and DTV local blackouts I haven't gotten to see nealry as much of the boys as I want. I really wish I knew what was going on with him (hint,hint). Is he getting overpowered? Has his technique gone to seed? Is he making mental mistakes? Is he having trouble getting out or into the second level? Has he faced too many of hte RColemans, Boogers and Traylors of hte league? Is he having trouble with his chest/shoulder again? Was last year actually the aberration? Is he struggling with BAnderson's clown act next door? Cya P.S. Dear intelligent designer, please don't let some wag quote the second paragraph and simply respond "Yes". Thanx.
Alaska Darin Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 Between kids' birthdays, kayak trips and DTV local blackouts I haven't gotten to see nealry as much of the boys as I want. I really wish I knew what was going on with him (hint,hint).Is he getting overpowered? Has his technique gone to seed? Is he making mental mistakes? Is he having trouble getting out or into the second level? Has he faced too many of hte RColemans, Boogers and Traylors of hte league? Is he having trouble with his chest/shoulder again? Was last year actually the aberration? Is he struggling with BAnderson's clown act next door? Cya P.S. Dear intelligent designer, please don't let some wag quote the second paragraph and simply respond "Yes". Thanx. 476097[/snapback] It's been a number of things, from recognition of assignment to technique (not sinking his ass and getting literally "Pucillo'd" into the QB as an example). There's even been a couple of times when he's been so slow out of his stance that it's all he can do to get a mitt on his man, much less a shoulder.
Simon Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 There's even been a couple of times when he's been so slow out of his stance that it's all he can do to get a mitt on his man, much less a shoulder. Damn, I remember him having that exact same problem when they first flipped him to Center. For a while we were wondering if he was ever going to be able to deliver and get out of his stance quick enough to play the pivot. Sounds like it's rearing its head again and if that's the case it might be effecting the rest of his game if he's starting every play 2/10th's behind.
seq004 Posted October 14, 2005 Posted October 14, 2005 So it was just a figment of my imagination when TD spent draft picks on Mike Williams, Jonas Jennings, Duke Preston, Marques Sullivan, Ben Sobieski and several other OLineman?And I was just hallucinating when he gave free-agent bucks to Chris Vilarial, Trey Teague, Mike Gandy, Jason Peters, Marcus Price, Bennie Anderson and several others. So I guess these 11 offensive linemen that I thought TD added to the Bills weren't real? Gee, I really hope he finally addresses the OLine soon. He's been ignoring it too long. 475718[/snapback] No, but you must be doing good drugs if you think those are some of the top lineman in the league. Gee who made those personal decisions? Hey Simon accept mediocrity and that's what TD will give you every year.
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