Max Fischer Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 All-time Moon - does not include his 20K+ yards etc in the cfl over 6 years. 4th in attempts 5th in TDs 4th in completions 4th in yards Vinny - 5th attempts 8th TDs (could get to 7th soon) 6th completions (could get to 5th soon) 6th yards Drew- 7th attempts 19th TDs 7th completions 10th yards (with 8th well in reach) I don't have win-loss. I say Moon needs to go in but not sure if there is any strong doubt (on the 2006 ballot with Thurman, Reed and Aikman). Vinny is on the bubble but has never made a huge impact in the league; while you can debate Drew's ability to win he's always been a top QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Moon - Maybe Vinny - No Drew - No Ok, we're done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightRider Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 The guy who will probably get in that doesn't deserve it is Aikman. How is he different than Bledsoe other than he and the best line, statisticly the best RB in history, and good to great WR corp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothrop Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Moon - Maybe Vinny - No Drew - No Ok, we're done here. 473720[/snapback] yep P.S. I would lean towards "yes" with Moon. He defined the "run-n-shoot" fad at the pro level - the oilers' offense was simply dominating during that time. Their offense ushered in the era of the 100/rec WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 The guy who will probably get in that doesn't deserve it is Aikman. How is he different than Bledsoe other than he and the best line, statisticly the best RB in history, and good to great WR corp? 473722[/snapback] Winning 3 SB's may have something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 All Time Passing Stats According to the above, Drew IS 8th. I don't know much about how these votes go down. I remember that in baseball, before they brought in the walls, juiced up the balls and injected the steroids, 500 home runs and 300 wins were benchmarks that all but assured hall of fame entry. Moon lost time and stats in the CFL. Testeverde of the three is more of a statitistics compiler imo. You could say the same for Drew, but he DID win 2 AFC Championship games. I predict: Moon: A no brainer. Testeverde: Probably, but not first ballot Drew: More than likely, especially if he can keep it up the way he looks this season. He isn't that old, and could pass other greats in yards AND touchdowns. Not necessarily first ballot, but he gets in. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightRider Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Winning 3 SB's may have something to do with it. 473724[/snapback] Singlehandedly? If it's due to 3 SB's, Novacek should get in too. Maybe Switzer should be inducted too. But yeah, I'm sure they will figure in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 i prefer to hang on to the notion that it is the hall of FAME, not hall of STATS. winning super bowls earns fame. being a prime contributor on dominant teams earns fame. being an innovator, or doing something no one has done before, earn fame. loading up on gaudy stats because of a long career should only be one factor to consider, and not a primary one. in my opinion, only warren moon approaches HOF status of the three QBs you mention, for the reason that he was an innovator of sorts with respect to the NFL run-n-shoot offense in the early 90s. bledsoe and testaverde have used long careers to pad stats without really accomplishing much. bledsoe is slightly better because of being on more winning teams, but his record against quality opponents drags him down considerably, as does his career passer rating. just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Singlehandedly? If it's due to 3 SB's, Novacek should get in too. Maybe Switzer should be inducted too. But yeah, I'm sure they will figure in. 473729[/snapback] I agree with you but you know why certain players get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Testeverde of the three is more of a statitistics compiler imo. You could say the same for Drew, but he DID win 2 AFC Championship games. Actually, I disagree -- Drew has comparable stats to Testeverde in roughly 6 less seasons. I've read a lot of people give that argument (If Bledsoe gets in the Hall, then Testeverde does too), but I just don't think they're valid comparisons based on years played. If Bledsoe plays another 5 years, just think of what his stats will be. Even if he only throws for 2000 yards/season, that still puts him at over 51,000 yards. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 bledsoe and testaverde have used long careers to pad stats without really accomplishing much. As I said before, I don't see how you can say averaging over 3100 yards/season is padding your stats... Testeverde, yes - he's only averaging 2479yds/season. For the record (and to add more fuel to the "Aikman is overrated camp), Aikman's career QB rating is only 81, four points higher than Bledsoe's current rating that eveyrone says sucks. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Actually, I disagree -- Drew has comparable stats to Testeverde in roughly 6 less seasons. I've read a lot of people give that argument (If Bledsoe gets in the Hall, then Testeverde does too), but I just don't think they're valid comparisons based on years played. If Bledsoe plays another 5 years, just think of what his stats will be. Even if he only throws for 2000 yards/season, that still puts him at over 51,000 yards. CW 473738[/snapback] Sorry, that is what I was trying to say. Vinnie has had far more time than Drew to put up numbers. If Drew stays healthy for a few more years, he will definitely have the better stats of the two, and I view him as much more probable than Vinnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 As I said before, I don't see how you can say averaging over 3100 yards/season is padding your stats... Testeverde, yes - he's only averaging 2479yds/season. For the record (and to add more fuel to the "Aikman is overrated camp), Aikman's career QB rating is only 81, four points higher than Bledsoe's current rating that eveyrone says sucks. CW 473741[/snapback] Troy's not listening. He's got all those SB rings in his ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Troy's not listening. He's got all those SB rings in his ears. 473760[/snapback] Last I checked, Bledsoe has a Superbowl ring and an AFC Championship ring. That's probably why he ignores the fans CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Last I checked, Bledsoe has a Superbowl ring and an AFC Championship ring. That's probably why he ignores the fans CW 473763[/snapback] So does Rob Johnson. He didn't do much to earn his, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Troy's not listening. He's got all those SB rings in his ears. 473760[/snapback] Yet Fouts is in there, and he has no rings. Drew might pass both his yardage and TD stats. I am not trying to make a case that Drew is as good as, nor as deserving of this as is Elway. Otoh, Drew being admitted to the hall is certainly within the realm of possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Moon - Maybe Vinny - No Drew - No Ok, we're done here. 473720[/snapback] More 'probably' than 'maybe' I'd guess in regards to Moon. Other than that, you're probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Otoh, Drew being admitted to the hall is certainly within the realm of possibility. 473777[/snapback] Which is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 i prefer to hang on to the notion that it is the hall of FAME, not hall of STATS. winning super bowls earns fame. being a prime contributor on dominant teams earns fame. being an innovator, or doing something no one has done before, earn fame. loading up on gaudy stats because of a long career should only be one factor to consider, and not a primary one. in my opinion, only warren moon approaches HOF status of the three QBs you mention, for the reason that he was an innovator of sorts with respect to the NFL run-n-shoot offense in the early 90s. bledsoe and testaverde have used long careers to pad stats without really accomplishing much. bledsoe is slightly better because of being on more winning teams, but his record against quality opponents drags him down considerably, as does his career passer rating. just my $.02 473735[/snapback] EXACTLY and well put. I am as attracted to and focused on stats as anybody, but this focus on stats has also given me a recognition that as Mark Twain (I think) said, There are three kinds of untruths in this world, lies, damn lies and statistics. Stats are a great indicator of lots of things but conclusively prove very little in and of themselves. This is particularly true of the HOF where the operative word is FAME. Stats are a key indicator, but pales in terms of actual decision when compared to: 1. Who else is up for a vote- A player becomes eligible when he has been retired for 5 years and if he happens to come up for his vote if there has been a lag of several years of players at his position having made the HOF or a likely shortfall in the future it may well help him. On the other hand however. if other players at his position are taken or likely to be taken and he is aguably better than them it helps his position. All of this weighs with the fact that if other taken players provide more likely candidates than our possible candidate then he may well have to wait or get hosed. A big key for Bledsoe consideration is when he retires, who else is in or near the same class. and the feeling folks have about him when he leaves the game. Elway was a shoo-in anyway, but certainly left on a high note which made him a 1st ballot entry. Any sense that Kelly left after not winning it all was both balanced by him having an unprecedented 4 shots in a row, but sympathy over Hunter (and a tribute to the devotion he showed in how he handled it) made him a first ballot pick and easily outweighed the ignominy of leaving the field on a cart. Testaverde winning in his latest comeback probably helps him as much as the stat total being padded to the necessary levels. However, his failure to win it all or even come very close is going to make it tough for him. Bledsoe strikes me as also having the required stats mostly gained through lengthy play. However, I think the keys for him will be: !. Making it to the Big Dance once early in his career which even though his team lost is a clear accomplishment. 2. Having played an essential role in his 2001 NE team winning it all so he has a ring. It was clearly Brady's team and Brady was the QB, however, like him or not Bledsoe played an essential role for this team playing QB for the majority of a must-win game and even throwing the winning TD. He'll even get credit for being a teamer who gracefully stepped aside. 3. Ironically, it will probably be his Bills career that locks it up for him. America loves a comeback story and he was cut because Brady was better. However, the facts of the 2002 season are simply the facts and he came back from the asheap of being cut to be QB for a Bills team which improved from 3-13 to 8-8 under his signal calling. Those who would want to claim that he ran out of gas at the end of year can make this case in terms of record, but in the end and in memory the team's record is the team record and Bledsoe will instead be judged in the light of him being selected as a Pro Bowl reserve that year (if you think several AFC QBs who did not make the team deserved it more simply name them and then we can argue their stats) will be how he is judged. 4. With even further irony, Bledsoe simply sucked in terms of production in 2003, but in addition to his third life (NE SB, NE win, Bills Comeback) likely being enough to get him into the HOF on its own, he is adding to his fame with the production he and Dallas are getting this year. Even if his production stops now (and actually he would likely be helped with HOF voters if his career ended right now with some sort of sympathy raising tragedy) it likely will be enough for him to win this popularity contest. As it stands, if he steers this team to a .500 record after their problems in the past and certainly if this team ouges into the playoffs in a weak NFC or he wins some Pro Bowl popularity contest he is simply a stone cold lock after being a guy who produced in 4 unlikely shots (1 it is necessary but no sufficient to be a well-regarded rookie who produces and DB did that, it is also necessary but not sufficient to be part of a winning team and Bledsoe did that, it is also necessary bu not sufficient to overcome some adversity in your career and by getting cut and then making the Pro Bowl as a reserve Bledsoe did that, and he is doing it yet again and if Big D is judged to have improved under his QB duty he will even have this extra. History is history and history ain't over as far as DB's career, but he looks pretty good to me to win this popularity contest regardless of my judgement of whether he deserves it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernMan Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 i prefer to hang on to the notion that it is the hall of FAME, not hall of STATS. winning super bowls earns fame. being a prime contributor on dominant teams earns fame. being an innovator, or doing something no one has done before, earn fame. loading up on gaudy stats because of a long career should only be one factor to consider, and not a primary one. just my $.02 473735[/snapback] That first paragraph is fairly accurate description of Dan Marino, though who could deny him first ballot entry to the HOF. Fouts, Kelly, Manning, are a few others that have made the HOF that could fit this category. You could say Jimbo was innovative with the K-gun, calling his own plays bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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