At what point do we HAVE to play JP?

[JOHNNYFAIRPLAY]

Instead, he's doing exactly as I predicted he would when he was signed.

 

'JP who? I'll be starting from now on.'

 

He ran the same Mr. Innocent Supplanter scheme with Couch. I hope JP holds up better, but it's gotta be a shock when the team said it was his team this year thick and thin then pulled him after four friggin' games. He needs a sit-down for a couple of games. Reading that BN article, I think KH has other ideas, tho.

473924[/snapback]

 

I agree with all of this (which sucks), except for one thing, I really dont think JPL needs to sit. He should be in there.

[BB2004]

IMO JP needs to play at LEAST 8 games this year - preferably more. With any fewer next year starts just like this year.

 

I like winning as much as any of the rest of you - but JP needs to be in the huddle, making plays not stood watching on the sideline.

 

Look at the Niners - they're going with Alex Smith NOW - at 1-3, just like the Bills were...

 

I'm not giving up on the season - but if we are going to have any long-term success or a shot at the title it's going to be with JP at the helm. He needs playing time pure and simple.

 

If he's not back in in 3 weeks time, we'll be mortgaging next year on his development too.

473699[/snapback]

 

I think he'll go with KH until he loses or plays below average. Until that happens, KH will most likely be our QB.

[bbills17]

I'm really starting to have a problem with the thought of many that JP is the key to future success.  He has showed nothing, NOTHING to suggest that this is the guy who's going to lead the Bills to the promised land.

 

Now, I've only been watching this game for about 40 years, so I might be missing something.  What is it, what is the magic that is JP that people think he is the end-all?  What is it that folks see in JP to even remotely believe that he is the ingredient to future success?  Was it week one vs the Texans?  Something in a preseason game?  Did he SAY something right during the off-season?

 

He's a first round pick, that's the given...but the NFL scrap heap is full of first round QB busts (Shuler, Leaf, etc, etc).  I hope JP is the second coming of Jim Kelly...but I have yet to see anything remotely close to a winning NFL qb in this guy.

 

"But we'll never know until he plays," you howl.  "And he's got the TOOLS," you add.  I dunno...I just don't see it.  He's just missing something, something that could lead me to believe that this guy IS the answer.

 

Maybe we see something in JP this week...or next.  Or next month, or next year.  But as the Bills head into the sixth game of a sixteen game schedule, I believe Holcomb is the man.

473718[/snapback]

 

Thank you, very well said.

[bbills17]

Football is not like a sales job where you read up on the product and sharpen your skills by reading materials. Its an OJT type of thing, if he doesnt play, he will not get better. Sitting on the sidelines does nothing for him, he needs to play. Anyone who says he can learn on the sidelines is wrong, its that simple. I like KH, but he was brought here for one reason, to BACK-UP and verbally guide and encourage JPL.

473896[/snapback]

 

No, YOU are dead wrong.

 

Ask Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselbeck, etc They all started in the NFL after learning the game on the BENCH with a clipboard. When they went in, they all started with a very high level of play.

[UConn James]

I think what we're seeing here is definitely the right and wrong way to bring up a future QB.  After seeing bunches of "top" QBs come into the league over the years, I'm more and more certain that the real difference is the coaching and the way they're handled in their first year or 2 as a starter.  Of course, there are exceptions.  But in general, QBs that come in and are supported and coached properly and are left in through the ups and downs - turn out to be goo, solid Qbs.  The ones that are continually pulled and moved around tend to bust.  This may have as much to do with the perception other players have in their ability as they have in themselves.  That I don't know.  But, you can definitely see that trend when you look at QBs and their careers. 

 

How good can any player be when he is judged on an almost play to play basis.  The pressure is enough, but then when you add they pressure of having to be perfect on every play - it seems to ruin players.   

 

Now I'm not saying JP or any QB should not be benched.  All I'm saying is that you're walking down a very risky and slippery road when you do it too much.  JP may not be the answer, but you'll never know with him on the side line.  Furthermore, if JP is not the answer who is?  How often does a team get a free agent seasoned QB that immediately wins with a new team.  It happens, but not often.  My point is that sooner or later you have to invest some time in the QB and let him develop or not.  To expect immediate results (aka Big Ben or Tom Brady) is to expect something that is rare and not likely to happen. 

 

So, in my opinion, get JP in there after the bye.  Simplify the offense for him.  (simplify the defense too for that matter).  And just let him develop for a season.  It may mean we lose 1 season, but I'm thinking about not losing the next 10 seasons - which is pretty much what we've lost now.  We've had about 10 years of losing when you think about it.  Why?  Because we continually bring players, coaches and staff in looking for that quick fix.  Think long term and win long term.

473980[/snapback]

 

I think you just won the POST OF THE DAY award.

 

For the posters who want to start KH the rest of the way to garner us a whole 4 or 5 wins, when JP has just as much a chance of doing that plus learning the game and becoming a potentially great QB, I want to just reach through my computer screen and choke the sh-- out of them.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Never. Why bother?

 

The '2005 Competitive Football Team - Plan A' has now been replaced by '2005 Competitive Football Team - Plan B'. Coming soon to a football stadium near you - '2005 Competitive Football Team - Plan C' !

 

All the while, '2005 Financially Solvent Football Team - Plan A' will remain in effect.

Keep that carrot dangling RW.

[Campy]

What is it, what is the magic that is JP that people think he is the end-all?  What is it that folks see in JP to even remotely believe that he is the ingredient to future success? 

473718[/snapback]

I have no argument that with you in that JP wasn't getting it done. I was all for Holcomb going in. That said, JP's smart, has demonstrated leadership abilities, has a cannon for an arm, and can be very accurate. I think his #1 problem right now is that the game's a little too fast for him right now. I don't think that's something that he can't overcome, he's just not ready yet.

 

I think he'll be a very good player for us for a lot of years, but that's only my opinion. I've been wrong before. But only once.

[Bill from NYC]

I think you just won the POST OF THE DAY award.

 

For the posters who want to start KH the rest of the way to garner us a whole 4 or 5 wins, when JP has just as much a chance of doing that plus learning the game and becoming a potentially great QB, I want to just reach through my computer screen and choke the sh-- out of them.

474005[/snapback]

 

At this point, it is impossible to know who to start the rest of the way, wouldn't you say?

JP had a decent first game. After that, he was simply horrid.

KH had a decent first game. We don't know what is to follow. He might be worse (although unlikely) than JP, but we don't know.

 

If in fact the Bills are out of the playoff hunt, it would make lots of sense to put JP in there and see what he can (or cannot) do. But, if the Bills are in contention, why would it make sense to go with him? Besides, there is every chance that injuries will dictate the move.

 

Remember, we all hope he can; you may think that he can, but it is not written in stone that JP can play well in the NFL.

What we DO know is that he was handed the job with no competition, and that KH was signed in case JP is either injured or a lousy qb.

[UConn James]

I have no argument that with you in that JP wasn't getting it done.  I was all for Holcomb going in.  That said, JP's smart, has demonstrated leadership abilities, has a cannon for an arm, and can be very accurate.  I think his #1 problem right now is that the game's a little too fast for him right now.  I don't think that's something that he can't overcome, he's just not ready yet.

 

I think he'll be a very good player for us for a lot of years, but that's only my opinion.  I've been wrong before.  But only once.

474029[/snapback]

 

Exactly, and it will only slow down for him with experience. I think a one or two game breather might be good for him to settle down. More than that....

 

And hey, that one time you were wrong, the mistake only came in that you thought you were wrong, but you were right.

[bill in Livonia]

I think they will play JP as soon as Kelly Holcom gets the slightest nick or injury.

They will overstate the seriousness of the injury to bring JP back, and rightfully so.

JP is still the QB of the future and Holcom is somewhat limited.

GO BILLS!

JOLT THE JETS!!

[zow2]

I'm really starting to have a problem with the thought of many that JP is the key to future success.  He has showed nothing, NOTHING to suggest that this is the guy who's going to lead the Bills to the promised land.

 

Now, I've only been watching this game for about 40 years, so I might be missing something.  What is it, what is the magic that is JP that people think he is the end-all?  What is it that folks see in JP to even remotely believe that he is the ingredient to future success?  Was it week one vs the Texans?  Something in a preseason game?  Did he SAY something right during the off-season?

 

He's a first round pick, that's the given...but the NFL scrap heap is full of first round QB busts (Shuler, Leaf, etc, etc).  I hope JP is the second coming of Jim Kelly...but I have yet to see anything remotely close to a winning NFL qb in this guy.

 

"But we'll never know until he plays," you howl.  "And he's got the TOOLS," you add.  I dunno...I just don't see it.  He's just missing something, something that could lead me to believe that this guy IS the answer.

 

Maybe we see something in JP this week...or next.  Or next month, or next year.  But as the Bills head into the sixth game of a sixteen game schedule, I believe Holcomb is the man.

473718[/snapback]

 

I agree somewhat. I'm definitely worried about JP and his future. Then i hear Phil Simms talking on that radio show w/ Mike Francesa last weekend and it reaffirmed my fears. Phil...who knows a little something about QB'ing ...comes right out and says that he watched film of JP's first 4 games and JP showed nothing. He went on to say that most promising young QB's show some flashes of brilliance even when they are raw but Losman can't read a defense, isn't accurate, has no pocket awareness, gets jittery and on and on....

Hey, i hope JP gets it together but he may never be this great QB that we all hoped.

[Realist]

I like what the Gints did with Eli last year. Through thick and thin they through him in there. They sacrificed the season to groom their QB of the future. By the end of the year, you could see Eli was doing better even though he sucked the first several games.

[Beerstm]

face it, he wont play until Holcomb gets hurt.. should be around week 10

[1billsfan]

I agree somewhat.  I'm definitely worried about JP and his future.  Then i hear Phil Simms talking on that radio show w/ Mike Francesa last weekend and it reaffirmed my fears.  Phil...who knows a little something about QB'ing ...comes right out and says that he watched film of JP's first 4 games and JP showed nothing.  He went on to say that most promising young QB's show some flashes of brilliance even when they are raw but Losman can't read a defense, isn't accurate, has no pocket awareness, gets jittery and on and on.... 

Hey, i hope JP gets it together but he may never be this great QB that we all hoped.

474116[/snapback]

 

Phil Simms can get bent. That guy was a major bust his first 4 years in the league. After his first two seasons his starting his completion rate was 49 percent. What's JP's after four games? 48.5. I remember laughing at Phil Simms during his learning years because he looked so clueless. Part of that had to do with the Giants not yet having a good offensive line. Hmmm sound familiar? The fact that Simms says he saw "FILM", and proceed to say JP has shown "nothing" shows what a tool the guy is. If your going to go on record and say this guy looks like a bust because he has shown nothing than at least watch "ALL" of his four games. I've seen plenty of positives like the ability to gain yards with his legs, direct first possession scoring drives on the road and only throwing one interception in his first four games. He's done all this AND has hovered around Phil's lofty 49 percent completion rate. I guess all those hits in his early years have taken their toll on Simms. Did Mike ask him what promise his son has shown as an NFL QB? I'm guessing he didn't.

[Bill from NYC]

Phil Simms can get bent. That guy was a major bust his first 4 years in the league. After his first two seasons his starting his completion rate was 49 percent. What's JP's after four games? 48.5. I remember laughing at Phil Simms during his learning years because he looked so clueless. Part of that had to do with the Giants not yet having a good offensive line. Hmmm sound familiar? The fact that Simms says he saw "FILM", and proceed to say JP has shown "nothing" shows what a tool the guy is. If your going to go on record and say this guy looks like a bust because he has shown nothing than at least watch "ALL" of his four games. I've seen plenty of positives like the ability to gain yards with his legs, direct first possession scoring drives on the road and only throwing one interception in his first four games. He's done all this AND has hovered around Phil's lofty 49 percent completion rate.  I guess all those hits in his early years have taken their toll on Simms. Did Mike ask him what promise his son has shown as an NFL QB? I'm guessing he didn't.

474164[/snapback]

 

So I take it you don't like Simms?

 

Seriously, you make valid points. I think that the "one interception" thing is a stretch, because he did put quite a few footballs into the hands of defenders, which they luckily dropped.

 

I guess that it comes down to patience to a large degree. I loved walking down the ramp on Sunday after the win; hearing the cheers and getting the high fives from happy Bills. It was great getting back to Pole 5 and seeing the smiles from those present!

Remember, TD and the media sold us a bill of goods about this kid. How many posts did you read that stated positively that JP "couldn't be any worse than Bledsoe?" Well he is, and is perhaps worse than almost anybody thus far.

 

From what I watched of JP, he has been generally awful. Certainly he needs more time to show what he can do which he WILL get, as soon as KH is injured (likely), or he plays even worse than what JP has shown us (less likely).

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Phil Simms can get bent. That guy was a major bust his first 4 years in the league. After his first two seasons his starting his completion rate was 49 percent. What's JP's after four games? 48.5. I remember laughing at Phil Simms during his learning years because he looked so clueless. Part of that had to do with the Giants not yet having a good offensive line. Hmmm sound familiar? The fact that Simms says he saw "FILM", and proceed to say JP has shown "nothing" shows what a tool the guy is. If your going to go on record and say this guy looks like a bust because he has shown nothing than at least watch "ALL" of his four games. I've seen plenty of positives like the ability to gain yards with his legs, direct first possession scoring drives on the road and only throwing one interception in his first four games. He's done all this AND has hovered around Phil's lofty 49 percent completion rate.  I guess all those hits in his early years have taken their toll on Simms. Did Mike ask him what promise his son has shown as an NFL QB? I'm guessing he didn't.

474164[/snapback]

 

When you're right, you're right!

 

Early on Simms had the crap knocked out of him, and it wasn't all on the O-line. I remember Parcells wasn't very happy with him back then, so he's not one to talk. As a matter of fact, I had more respect for him before he became a mouthpiece for the networks.

[1billsfan]

  When you're right, you're right!

 

Early on Simms had the crap knocked out of him, and it wasn't all on the O-line.  I remember Parcells wasn't very happy with him back then, so he's not one to talk.  As a matter of fact, I had more respect for him before he became a mouthpiece for the networks.

474187[/snapback]

 

Hey Phil, does the name Scott Brunner ring a bell?

[bbills17]

Hey Phil, does the name Scott Brunner ring a bell? 

474203[/snapback]

 

Why don't some of you guys claiming it's IMPERATIVE that JP start now and stink up the joint in order to become a good QB please explain how Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselbeck and lots of other QBs rode the bench and were very good QBs right off the start??

 

This trial by fire that some of you claim is required is absolute BS.

[The Dean]

IMO JP needs to play at LEAST 8 games this year - preferably more. With any fewer next year starts just like this year.

 

I like winning as much as any of the rest of you - but JP needs to be in the huddle, making plays not stood watching on the sideline.

 

Look at the Niners - they're going with Alex Smith NOW - at 1-3, just like the Bills were...

 

I'm not giving up on the season - but if we are going to have any long-term success or a shot at the title it's going to be with JP at the helm. He needs playing time pure and simple.

 

If he's not back in in 3 weeks time, we'll be mortgaging next year on his development too.

473699[/snapback]

 

 

I wold LOVE for JP to be playing now...but I don't buy your setup or your comparison.

 

When does Phillip Rivers NEED to play? Alex Smith is playing now because the alternative (Rattay) wasn't an option...he sucks out loud...stinks on ice (not that ICE). Holcomb is an actual QB...not one of the league's elite, mind you. But, I'll put him on par with at least half the starting QBs in the league.

 

Certainly there have been numerous QBs who learned on the bench and in relief.

 

I might be more worried if the kid wasn't saying the right things...and if KH wasn't saying the right things.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Why don't some of you guys claiming it's IMPERATIVE that JP start now and stink up the joint in order to become a good QB please explain how Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady, Matt Hasselbeck and lots of other QBs rode the bench and were very good QBs right off the start?? 

 

This trial by fire that some of you claim is required is absolute BS.

474333[/snapback]

 

I don't think anyone here believes it's imperitive to throw an inexperienced QB to the wolves in order for him to learn. Neither did Wilson, Donahoe, Mularkey, Wyche and Clements. The point is how this group could make such a colossal blunder in judgement.

 

I doubt Mularkey, Wyche and Clements feel they did, but they have to keep their mouths shut, swallow hard, follow orders and win enough games to keep a healthy bottom-line.