Johnny Coli Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 I see people talking about Holcomb's performance using terms like "touch" and "spark", and I'm completely dumbfounded. The offense scored a grand total of 3 freaking points in 38 minutes. 3 points!!!! And those came on a 47 freaking yard FG. After the TD, this well-orchestrated offense in the hands of the savior Holcomb had 8 drives. 6 ended in punts, 1 ended with a fumble, and 1 ended with Lindell's miracle FG. Their longest drive in that span was a pathetic 38 yards, and 6 of the eight drives were FOR LESS THAN 10 YARDS! That is utterly laughable. How can anyone in their right mind argue that Holcomb did any better than JP would have done? What am I missing here? The best that could be said about his performance is that the offense wasn't on the field long enough for him to blow the game. And he was lucky in that regard, because he only lost 1 out of his 3 fumbles. Like I said, how could JP have done any worse than Holcomb.
BuffOrange Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 The throw to Evans that set up the 1st score may not have looked like a tough throw (because it really wasn't) but it was a 3rd down conversion and it's a play JP probably doesn't make. Same with the slant to Moulds that set up the last FG which was another 3rd down play (yeah he made the stupid fumble afterwords, but the end result was the same as a sack would've been). I'm not going to excuse the overall putrid 2nd half offensive performance, or say that Holcomb played great... But this is the NFL and in this league those 2 seemingly pedestrian plays are the difference between winning and losing. On those first couple drives there were a few instances where we threw incomplete passes on 2nd & short. If JP was in there 3rd down would've been incomplete and 50,000 people would be on here bitching about the play-calling. Instead the QB actually CONVERTED a couple of 3rd downs which led to scores, and so nobody cares about the play-calling on 2nd down. That's not to mention the 8 yard completions on 1st down that put us in favorable down&distance situations in the first place - which - who knows if JP could've done.
Buftex Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 I see people talking about Holcomb's performance using terms like "touch" and "spark", and I'm completely dumbfounded. The offense scored a grand total of 3 freaking points in 38 minutes. 3 points!!!! And those came on a 47 freaking yard FG. After the TD, this well-orchestrated offense in the hands of the savior Holcomb had 8 drives. 6 ended in punts, 1 ended with a fumble, and 1 ended with Lindell's miracle FG. Their longest drive in that span was a pathetic 38 yards, and 6 of the eight drives were FOR LESS THAN 10 YARDS! That is utterly laughable. How can anyone in their right mind argue that Holcomb did any better than JP would have done? What am I missing here? The best that could be said about his performance is that the offense wasn't on the field long enough for him to blow the game. And he was lucky in that regard, because he only lost 1 out of his 3 fumbles. Like I said, how could JP have done any worse than Holcomb. 472404[/snapback] Have you watched any of the games the last 4 weeks? What Holcomb did, was come out and run an efficient offense, he threw accurately, and converted some third downs. He didn't do anything spectacular, but he played well enough for the Bills to win. JP had similar opportunities to make unspectacular plays, that were there to be made, and simply didn't, against both the Falcons and the Saints. It is true, the team, as a whole, stunk in the second half. But they were able to put together a great first half, and Holcomb was a large part of that. Nothing against JP, but I can count on two fingers, the number of nice throws he had in 4 starts. I don't think anyone is proclaiming Holcomb a savior. He didn't do anything spectacular, yet the team won, with him at the helm, and he contributed to that. The pass to Evans, on the opening drive (the 49 yarder!) was one that Losman would have likely not made. Not that he can't throw that pass, but he is not recognizing things quickly enough. On that particular play, Holcomb hit Evans, releasing the ball just a split second before Evans broke from coverage. Holcombs' mediocre performance was, QB rating wise, 100% better than what Losman was doing. It is a fine line between winning and losing, and for the time being, JP is on the bad side of that line. If you are serious, and objective in asking how could JP have done any worse than Holcomb, you haven't been watching.
Boatdrinks Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Umm, because we scored more TD's in 17 minutes than we had in the last 10 QUARTERS with JP at the helm. What Holcomb provided was the most important thing that JP hasn't. The Basics. Make a first down by hitting a receiver in stride. Have enough patience and touch to hit E Moulds as he puts a move on in the end zone. Don't look to run at the slightest hint of pressure. Just basic plays to move the chains and get in scoring position. How anyone could not see the difference, I don't know. Yes, the Dolphins worked us over in pass rush in the 2nd half, and we had zero answers for it. Kelly Holcomb does not block! Check Holcombs completion%-far better than JP's. Say all you want about not throwing any deep balls, but we need to get the ball in the receivers hands and have them make a play. This happened a couple times yesterday and it was enough to win the ballgame. JP saw better protection in many cases than Holcomb did, but consistently sailed passes by open receivers. that is why he is sitting now. Simple as that. Holcomb is not Manning by any stretch, but he gives us a better chance to win right now.
Campy Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 1. Audibles 2. Accuracy 3. 20 of 26 passing 4. 169 yards passing 5. 2 offensive TD's in one game 6. 35 minute Time of Possesion. Those are all things that Holcomb offered that JP hasn't been able to do in a month, or in the case of #1, #3, and #5, ever.
Dante Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 1. Audibles2. Accuracy 3. 20 of 26 passing 4. 169 yards passing 5. 2 offensive TD's in one game 6. 35 minute Time of Possesion. Those are all things that Holcomb offered that JP hasn't been able to do in a month, or in the case of #1, #3, and #5, ever. 472714[/snapback] Yup totally agree. Holcomb is adequet and, if our D was plalying up to its magazine preview clippings, it would be enough for us to have a decent season. Even a run at the division the way that its playing out.
UConn James Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 JC, we'll wait and see until the D and/or STs throw up a couple of stinkers, and then the posters here will realize that it was they who won the game, not Holcomb. When Holcomb has to put the team on his shoulders like JP was forced to vs. TB and NO, I'll still rabidly root for the Bills, but I8 don't think he'll be able to pull it off. Anyone watch at least the first half of Pitt-SD last night? Two relatively young QBs that were making bad reads and bad throws. Ben The Great Rothlisberger has a 58% completion rate so far. Thing is, he's not being placed in a situation designed to fail. And they've left him in there. They have used the running game adequately, whereas Tom Clements has his head so far up his a$$ he can see daylight. If anyone did some snooping, I'd wager you'd find that scoring and offenses in general are declining from previous years. Defense has made a comeback in the NFL after a few years where the league has bent over backwards to change rules to give an advantage to offenses.
MadBuffaloDisease Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Like I said, how could JP have done any worse than Holcomb. Take a look at the past 3 weeks. Well under 50% passing. No TD's thrown. And the last 2 games JP's had an INT each game. Compare that to Holcomb's 77% passing, 1 TD and no INT's, not to mention getting out to a 17-0 lead, and I think the difference is obvious. And this is coming from a JP supporter, but one who realizes he's not there yet. And remember that this was Holcomb's first start. I expect things to improve.
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 The team sucked as a team with JP, and played substantially better as a team Sunday with Kelly. Daimon Shelton finally caught a freaking pass -- lord knows JP must have hit him in the numbers at least 5 times for drops this season. Kelly did a few things that JP can't do yet -- Campy was right to point out the audibles -- but he also couldn't escape the pocket when it collapsed on him, and fumbled 3 times. Kelly also had a defense that gave him 5 turnovers and a Miami team that bent over for 18 penalty spankings. Doesn't hurt, my friends. I don't think we can whine about officials fixing games against us for awhile (myself included). Right now if you're rating the QBs, you give Kelly a 6.5 and JP a 5 out of ten in terms of what they can do for this team, but one can't help but look at the massive help Kelly got and wonder what JP does (and learns from) with those opportunities. Maybe he doesn't get the team further than a field goal, maybe he blows it on 3rd down, but 5 handoffs from the defense sure doesn't hurt, ever.
Mark VI Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 The Blog master makes a good point. I guess the out pattern to Evans for the first down and the quick slant to Moulds for the TD may have been 2 plays Losman was struggling to complete in the first 4 games. I still blame the Coaches for coming out flat in the 2nd half. Poor playcalling doomed us on both sides of the ball . Less naps at the intermission and more game adjustments. Anyone else believe we're getting outcoached most every game ?
smokinandjokin Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Yup totally agree. Holcomb is adequet and, if our D was plalying up to its magazine preview clippings, it would be enough for us to have a decent season. Even a run at the division the way that its playing out. 472726[/snapback] If the team plays like they played against Miami, I don't see much better than a 5-11 season, regardless of the QB. An effort like that could beat the Jets this week, it could possibly beat Oakland on the road, and maybe squeak out one more win with a lucky break somewhere else. Other than that, wins will be hard to come by with a similar performance. Take a look at the schedule, this is going to get brutal.
Bill from NYC Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 The Blog master makes a good point. I guess the out pattern to Evans for the first down and the quick slant to Moulds for the TD may have been 2 plays Losman was struggling to complete in the first 4 games. I still blame the Coaches for coming out flat in the 2nd half. Poor playcalling doomed us on both sides of the ball . Less naps at the intermission and more game adjustments. Anyone else believe we're getting outcoached most every game ? 472862[/snapback] Well, considering that Herm Edwards is coming to town, it wont happen next week. I think that Holcombe was able to get more from Evans. He, imo, is the receiver that will put up the points. The thing is, the jests have a good defense, especially the DEs. Abraham and Ellis are strong and quick. The coaching staff will have to come up with something (MaGahee?) to keep them off of Holcombe or it might well get ugly. On the defensive side, we need to exploit Vinnie. If he is forced to throw, the Bills can beat him. I think that if the middle of our defense can contain Martin (Blaylock is out), this is a very winable game for the Bills.
Buckeye Eric Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Have you watched any of the games the last 4 weeks? What Holcomb did, was come out and run an efficient offense, he threw accurately, and converted some third downs. 472418[/snapback] No, what he did was mask the problems with the OL.
Bill from NYC Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 No, what he did was mask the problems with the OL. 472871[/snapback] Why do you think that he "masked" any OL problems? JP is the guy who can run away from trouble, not Holcombe. Flutie used to mask the problems because he thrived on broken plays. KH, as was Drew, is much more likely to be a victim of the poor OL play, wouldn't you say?
Buftex Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Why do you think that he "masked" any OL problems? JP is the guy who can run away from trouble, not Holcombe. Flutie used to mask the problems because he thrived on broken plays. KH, as was Drew, is much more likely to be a victim of the poor OL play, wouldn't you say? 472876[/snapback] A QB who can move does not necessarily help his OL. It seems a quick release can be at least as helpful. I hate bringing him up, but Rob Johnson was very mobile. His brain just wasn't as fast as his legs. Holcomb has a quick release. Until he starts understanding things better, Losman does not... Lets put it this way: Holcomb may have been only adequate, but that only illustrtates the fine line between winning and losing. Holcomb had the kind of game Sunday that we were all hoping would be the norm for Losman. Efficient, accurate, make some plays, convert some third downs, nothing fancy, just solid. Whether it was play calling or Offensive line play, if you saw the games, you can't deny that Losman was struggling to make easy plays that he should have been able to make. Losman is the QB of the future, no one is denying that. Holcomb, at best, will be a good back up for Losman. In the present though, Holcomb is just a tad better than Losman. He gives the team a better chance to win.
Bill from NYC Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 >>>>>Losman is the QB of the future, no one is denying that.<<<<< Nor is it etched in stone. I am truly hoping that the benching helps him because he play has been brutal, and his sideline antics disturb me.
Dan Gross Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 >>>>>Losman is the QB of the future, no one is denying that.<<<<< Nor is it etched in stone. I am truly hoping that the benching helps him because he play has been brutal, and his sideline antics disturb me. 473247[/snapback] Sideline antics? What, did he put a whoopy cushion where Holcomb sits on the bench?
Campy Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 JC, we'll wait and see until the D and/or STs throw up a couple of stinkers, and then the posters here will realize that it was they who won the game, not Holcomb. When Holcomb has to put the team on his shoulders like JP was forced to vs. TB and NO, I'll still rabidly root for the Bills, but I8 don't think he'll be able to pull it off. 472832[/snapback] Stats like Holcomb had against Miami would certainly gert us a better chance than the numbers JP put up. Shoot, Holcomb's numbers were better than JP's in the Houston game. As far as the QB carrying the team, it ain't gonna' happen, I agree. But the plan all along was to get efficient play out of the QB. Unfortunately for all of us, that hasn't been the case under JP.
Bill from NYC Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Sideline antics? What, did he put a whoopy cushion where Holcomb sits on the bench? 473256[/snapback] When he was benched last week, he was running around high fiving players and slapping their pads. You know, the "rah rah" stuff. The truth is that many of these men have been in the NFL for many years, and don't need to be cheered on by a rookie who at this early stage.....flat out sucks. The Buffalo Bills are not "his" team yet, despite the competition free anointment as such by TD. I think that he needs to settle down, listen to his coaches, and act like a professional. Jmo Dan.
Alaska Darin Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 When he was benched last week, he was running around high fiving players and slapping their pads. You know, the "rah rah" stuff. The truth is that many of these men have been in the NFL for many years, and don't need to be cheered on by a rookie who at this early stage.....flat out sucks. The Buffalo Bills are not "his" team yet, despite the competition free anointment as such by TD. I think that he needs to settle down, listen to his coaches, and act like a professional. Jmo Dan. 473272[/snapback] Wow. Talk about looking for stuff to B word about. Damned if you do...
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