Nanker Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 I wish WM were 1/2 the 3rd down back that Thurman was. TT was 'always' on the field on 3rd down and caught tons of passes for first downs. WM is no such threat. Of course it's hard to be much of a threat when your ass is sitting on the pine on 3rd downs.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Oj was here in 69 and no O-line can you name them, Joe D and Reggie weren't there. 472815[/snapback] And OJ didnt have even a decent running year until 1972, his fourth year, so what exactly are you saying? The most yards he had in his first three seasons was 742 (although one year he was hurt and only played half the season).
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 i disagree..i think this line is suited for running the football and not pass protection... 471375[/snapback] With Greg Jerman starting you can't say this line is built for anything. Hope we get soft Mike back soon.
bbills17 Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 I wish WM were 1/2 the 3rd down back that Thurman was.TT was 'always' on the field on 3rd down and caught tons of passes for first downs. WM is no such threat. Of course it's hard to be much of a threat when your ass is sitting on the pine on 3rd downs. 472883[/snapback] That seems to be another huge exageration by this board. I didn't see Willis play very much in college, but everyone said he was as good or 'better' than Thurman catching the ball as well as running it. He doesn't scare anyone coming out of the backfield on passing downs.
Fan in Chicago Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Our Offensive Line sucks. Period. 472812[/snapback] We also have not had a consistent line this year with injuries to CV and MW. Even with the players we have, if there was some consistency, the line would gel and WM would get a feel for who is blocking and where the holes are/will be. He is currently on pace for a 1,500 yard season and that is plenty good considering the OL talent on average.
nobody Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 All I care about is that the Bills continue to hand off to McGahee over 30 times a game. That is the key to the Bills success.
BillsObserver Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 That seems to be another huge exageration by this board. I didn't see Willis play very much in college, but everyone said he was as good or 'better' than Thurman catching the ball as well as running it. He doesn't scare anyone coming out of the backfield on passing downs. 472960[/snapback] What a joke. You have been schooled multiple times on this thread and you can't even acknowledge the facts. First you say this line is built to run, haha. Yeah sure, but just because they can't pass protect DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY make them capable of run blocking. We have only had 1 game with our starters all in there (the home opener). Our line is abysmal. GREG JERMAN IS A FREAKIN' STARTER. While you were implying that others on this board must not watch other games of the running backs you mentioned, it appears you're the one who doesn't watch Bills games. Then you say Kevin Jones and Julius Jones are by far better backs than Willis even though someone showed evidence in statistics that Willis is not only holding his own, he's beating them in every statistical category shown on the post. Don't you dare say stats don't matter and are deceiving. If that's the case, I could claim JP Losman is having a better year than Bledsoe. It's just not true. You must watch ESPN Sportscenter and see some of these highlights and really forget what Willis has done this year considering the line he's given. Are they really good backs? I think Julius Jones is and K. Jones shows flashes of being really good. Everyone can see that but to say they're far better than Willis is laughable. Put them behind our line and you'd get less than favorable results. And then you say he's slow. So what? I consider him patient. Too patient sometimes. Ever watch Priest Holmes? Same style of waiting for that hole to open. There are plenty of great backs throughout the history of the NFL who have succeeded despite their lack of speed. In fact - we got to see one yesterday on Monday Night Football in Jerome Bettis. 4th or 5th all time in rushing yards. Not too shabby. That is also an example of having a good O-line which Willis has yet to experience. Just wait - maybe one day gool ol' Donahoe may draft and bring in some line talent. Depth would also help. and there goes my 100th.
firedawg Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 I was going to say the same thing... I'm watching a bunch of different games today, including the Jacksonville one right now, and just about every other back seems to be MUCH faster... Willis doesn't appear to have a burst, more of a power runner, much like Antowain Smith. I don't know..Maybe I am being too critical, but the guy just doesn't impress me as an "ELITE" back. I DOUBT he will be here past next year anyways... 471342[/snapback] I don't think we want to confuse lack of burst or slowness with patience. Willis is a finess runner and IMO always has been. He has the burst when he is an open field situation and he needs to outrun the DB's or safties. When he is behind the line trying to find a hole he seems to be more patient and waits for his line to open a hole and if that doesn't happen then he tries to make one or drag the pile.
BuckeyeBill Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 he looks slow compared to other backs for some reason...shaud williams looks like he gets shot out of a rocket on his carries...willis still does some dancing and then looks like he has the acceleration of a small korean car 471269[/snapback] He runs more like Eric Dickerson... that running style did fine for him.
The Dean Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 The OP asked about the stiff-arm. I think I read somewhere that defenders are very aware of it (and why wouldn't they be, when he put two or three guys out last year with it?) and are trying to avoid it when tackling him, i.e., coming in lower when he runs those sweeps. So he doesn't have as many opportunities to use the hammer. 472879[/snapback] Wilis didn't have a stiff arm in college...he admited it himself after a Bills game when he hammered a dude (can't remember which game or dude). It just wasn't part of his arsenal. He developed it as a Bill. IMO, he picked it up while practicing with a back with the best stiff arm in the league right now, Travis Henry. But, you are correct, defenders are probably aware of it. That doesn't mean there's no opportunity for a smack or two along the way.
AKC Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 I think he should drop 10-15 for next year if he want to be in that LT class, but right now he is a top 5-10 RB, not close to LT, Alexander, James, and IMO the most underrated RB in the NFL Tiki Barber. 471389[/snapback] I fall to the other side of this. I think the weight Willis shed this past off-season has made him more tentative and less deliberate, not to mention less powerful. The things he did that I liked last year are gone- he looks much easier to bring down. I'd like to see him put that extra 15 pounds back on, maybe even 20. And I agree with McThrillis- the line we have is good at run blocking; when you consider how little blocking help they get from our TEs/backs they seem unfairly targeted.
34-78-83 Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 I fall to the other side of this. I think the weight Willis shed this past off-season has made him more tentative and less deliberate, not to mention less powerful. The things he did that I liked last year are gone- he looks much easier to bring down. I'd like to see him put that extra 15 pounds back on, maybe even 20. And I agree with McThrillis- the line we have is good at run blocking; when you consider how little blocking help they get from our TEs/backs they seem unfairly targeted. 473067[/snapback] He didn't shed weight this past off-season. To me (in camp atleast) he looks to be about 10 lbs heavier than in 2004. His straight line speed looks significantly faster than last year as well. Again, he may not be where he was in college, but he's got plenty of speed to get the job done.
AKC Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 He didn't shed weight this past off-season. To me (in camp atleast) he looks to be about 10 lbs heavier than in 2004. His straight line speed looks significantly faster than last year as well. Again, he may not be where he was in college, but he's got plenty of speed to get the job done. 473077[/snapback] I can't believe that- he looks lighter in his legs than 2004. I'll pull games and look at the seasons side by side.
34-78-83 Posted October 11, 2005 Posted October 11, 2005 I can't believe that- he looks lighter in his legs than 2004. I'll pull games and look at the seasons side by side. 473086[/snapback] Do it up man. Before making it to camp this year, I had read that he was doing a lot of "Speed training" and assumed myself that he would naturally have lost 5 or 10 lbs due to this. That was not the case. If I had to guess I'd say he's at about 235 lbs right now. I've also heard many of the reporters/announcers mention the same throughout camp and pre-season. Murph, for example always seems to point out that there's no way he's as light as he's listed on the Roster.
bbills17 Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 What a joke. You have been schooled multiple times on this thread and you can't even acknowledge the facts. First you say this line is built to run, haha. Yeah sure, but just because they can't pass protect DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY make them capable of run blocking. We have only had 1 game with our starters all in there (the home opener). Our line is abysmal. GREG JERMAN IS A FREAKIN' STARTER. While you were implying that others on this board must not watch other games of the running backs you mentioned, it appears you're the one who doesn't watch Bills games. Then you say Kevin Jones and Julius Jones are by far better backs than Willis even though someone showed evidence in statistics that Willis is not only holding his own, he's beating them in every statistical category shown on the post. Don't you dare say stats don't matter and are deceiving. If that's the case, I could claim JP Losman is having a better year than Bledsoe. It's just not true. You must watch ESPN Sportscenter and see some of these highlights and really forget what Willis has done this year considering the line he's given. Are they really good backs? I think Julius Jones is and K. Jones shows flashes of being really good. Everyone can see that but to say they're far better than Willis is laughable. Put them behind our line and you'd get less than favorable results. And then you say he's slow. So what? I consider him patient. Too patient sometimes. Ever watch Priest Holmes? Same style of waiting for that hole to open. There are plenty of great backs throughout the history of the NFL who have succeeded despite their lack of speed. In fact - we got to see one yesterday on Monday Night Football in Jerome Bettis. 4th or 5th all time in rushing yards. Not too shabby. That is also an example of having a good O-line which Willis has yet to experience. Just wait - maybe one day gool ol' Donahoe may draft and bring in some line talent. Depth would also help. and there goes my 100th. 473027[/snapback] I said this line is built to run? When you wake up, please show me where I said this. I do think this line is decent at run-blocking, albeit inconsistent, but they have opened up some very nice holes for Willis, and he never turns those into huge gains like he should. At least 2-3 runs this year could have been taken to the house by a faster RB. I say Kevin Jones and Julius Jones are both better backs than Willis, and I stand by it. Someone showed that Willis beats them in every statistical category? Last time I checked, the only stat was YPC, after 3 games. Boy that really tells the tale doesn't it? He's patient, yes, and slow. Compared to the above backs for example, he's very slow. When you wake up and get your facts straight, you might be able to make a point. Until then, go back to sleep.
Beerstm Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 Used it against DBs trying to arm tackle him after he turned the corner. We can't get him there this year. 471195[/snapback] It doesn't seem like they are calling that play that much this year.. i loved that play
Guest BackInDaDay Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 It doesn't seem like they are calling that play that much this year.. i loved that play 473675[/snapback] It's not a designed play... http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=471345
Campy Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 And OJ didnt have even a decent running year until 1972, his fourth year, so what exactly are you saying? The most yards he had in his first three seasons was 742 (although one year he was hurt and only played half the season). 472884[/snapback] He didn't get a whole lot of carries either. He had averages of 3.9, 4.1, 4.1, and 4.1, but he didn't have more than 183 carries in any of those seasons. In his "decent" year, 1972, he had 292 carries for 1251 yards (4.2 avg) and 6 TDs. OJ was good from the get-go, he just didn't have the touches.
bills_fan Posted October 12, 2005 Posted October 12, 2005 Willis is not the same back he was in college. But that is OK. He has a completely different style now. He was more of a slasher and speed guy in college. But he is probably 15 pounds heavie now than in college, most of that being in additional muscle. He is more of a power back now. You have to remember that this guy is like 235. He has amazing speed for that size. Is he as fast as he was in college? NO. He used to run a 4.29 or somehting like that. He looks to be in the 4.4 range now, but that is great for a back of his size. I like the combination of size, speed and power we have now. This is completely accurate. As a huge U fan, I watched every game WM had in college. Basically, he was just as patient waiting for the hole to open as he is now. Then he'd hit the hole and be gone for 10-15. Now, he doesn't have the same speed he did at the U, but it seems he's compensated by adding strength and bulk. So now when the hole opens, he'll hit it and go for 4-6 and try to power forward for another couple. Problem really is that the holes didn't really open much with this OL. I'd like to see us with a healthy CV and MW, we'd have some success there I think.
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