Orton's Arm Posted October 10, 2005 Author Posted October 10, 2005 Holcomb played ok- I thought that the routes were more than 1-2 yard curls helped clear the line a bit, and gave more room to make throws- especially in the opening half. We arent a superbowl team, but we're not too bad either. 471090[/snapback] 21-26 is better than just okay. I would have liked to see more downfield passing, but without an offensive line there's only so much you can do.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 One of those completions was a dart to the six yard line from the one yard line. But he did have a player wide open in the end zone.
Orton's Arm Posted October 10, 2005 Author Posted October 10, 2005 One of those completions was a dart to the four yard line from the one yard line. But he did have a player wide open in the end zone. 471164[/snapback] I remember that play. He had virtually no time whatsoever in the pocket; and therefore went to his first option instead of his best option. At least he gave the receiver a chance to break a tackle and get a TD, instead of taking the sack as RJ or Bledsoe would have.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 I remember that play. He had virtually no time whatsoever in the pocket; and therefore went to his first option instead of his best option. At least he gave the receiver a chance to break a tackle and get a TD, instead of taking the sack as RJ or Bledsoe would have. 471169[/snapback] His first option is the guy at the six yard rather than the guy in the end zone from the one yard line? A little hard to believe. He was also very slow on that play with the ball.
bleedinblue Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 By your logic, Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Jim Kelly. Dilfer is 1-0 in Super Bowls, Kelly is 0-4. 470964[/snapback] Could you be more ridiculous. By the same logic, Kelly Holcomb is a better all time Bill's QB, he has never lost a game. The point is that over a career of 4 or five years, the win loss record of a QB does matter if for nothing else what his performace does to lift his team. Although a decent caretaker QB, Holcomb has never been a leader and the record is indicative of this.
Orton's Arm Posted October 10, 2005 Author Posted October 10, 2005 Could you be more ridiculous. By the same logic, Kelly Holcomb is a better all time Bill's QB, he has never lost a game. The point is that over a career of 4 or five years, the win loss record of a QB does matter if for nothing else what his performace does to lift his team. Although a decent caretaker QB, Holcomb has never been a leader and the record is indicative of this. 471235[/snapback] Based on salary, a good offensive tackle or cornerback affects the outcome of the game almost as much as a good QB. But nobody is stupid enough to say that Nate Clements is a lousy cornerback because of his mediocre win/loss record as a starter. Football is a TEAM game. TEAMs compile win/loss records; individual players don't.
Orton's Arm Posted October 10, 2005 Author Posted October 10, 2005 His first option is the guy at the six yard rather than the guy in the end zone from the one yard line? A little hard to believe. He was also very slow on that play with the ball. 471181[/snapback] The defender was coming in unblocked, so Holcomb obviously didn't have time to go through all his reads. Maybe the guy at the six was supposed to be his primary target if the other team blitzed.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 The defender was coming in unblocked, so he obviously didn't have time to go through all his reads. Maybe the guy at the six was supposed to be his primary target if the other team blitzed. 471284[/snapback] I repeat. From the one? If the guy blitzes and you can't get the play off you throw it out of the end zone or away. You dont throw the ball to the six from the one to a player who is covered. The only thing worse than the play by Holcomb was the call.
Campy Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 One of those completions was a dart to the six yard line from the one yard line. But he did have a player wide open in the end zone. 471164[/snapback] I believe it was Peters in the endzone. If I'm thinking of the right play, that was the one where I realized he was wearing #86.
bleedinblue Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 Based on salary, a good offensive tackle or cornerback affects the outcome of the game almost as much as a good QB. But nobody is stupid enough to say that Nate Clements is a lousy cornerback because of his mediocre win/loss record as a starter. Football is a TEAM game. TEAMs compile win/loss records; individual players don't. 471278[/snapback] I agree, but check the stat sheets, rightly or wrongly, QB is the only position measured in wins and losses. Nowhere will you find a stat for DB or OL listed as W and L. A QB is unquestionably the leader on the field and therefore his record can be indicative of that leadership or lack thereof. Its unjust and stupid, just like tipped ball interceptions but that's just the way it is.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 I believe it was Peters in the endzone. If I'm thinking of the right play, that was the one where I realized he was wearing #86. 471292[/snapback] Peters was wide open in the end zone on that play, yes.
Orton's Arm Posted October 10, 2005 Author Posted October 10, 2005 Its unjust and stupid471293[/snapback] Then why do it? In one of Holcomb's losses, he had 3 TD passes and over 400 yards. But the defense allowed over 50 points. Should the members of the defense be able to get away with saying, "We attribute our defensive meltdown to the quarterback's failure to provide us with sufficient inspiration and leadership."?
bleedinblue Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 Then why do it? In one of Holcomb's losses, he had 3 TD passes and over 400 yards. But the defense allowed over 50 points. Should the members of the defense be able to get away with saying, "We attribute our defensive meltdown to the quarterback's failure to provide us with sufficient inspiration and leadership."? 471307[/snapback] I don't make the rules, that is what the football watching public, most media jerks and half of the so called experts point to. Its always scoreboard in this world, just ask Jim Kelly, 4 trips and half the idiots out there still think he failed. By the way, inspired offensive play has often provided a spark to a defensive unit, and lousy offense has frustrated many a defense into lethargic play. So, yes a case can be made that the team leader carries that burden.
Orton's Arm Posted October 10, 2005 Author Posted October 10, 2005 I don't make the rules, that is what the football watching public, most media jerks and half of the so called experts point to. I know, but in this case the media are clearly mistaken. By the way, inspired offensive play has often provided a spark to a defensive unit, and lousy offense has frustrated many a defense into lethargic play. So, yes a case can be made that the team leader carries that burden. 471313[/snapback] I can only speak for myself, but if I was a member of the Cleveland defense, I would have felt inspired by being in a playoff game, and by the fact that my team's QB threw for 3 TDs and over 400 yards against the Steelers' defense.
mcjeff215 Posted October 10, 2005 Posted October 10, 2005 The best thing about KH? He lets us say "Kelly back to pass...." That's fun to say. Dunno why... It's even more fun if you put it in a Van Miller voice. No, I'm not stuck in the early 90's. I swear. -Jeff
Orton's Arm Posted October 10, 2005 Author Posted October 10, 2005 I repeat. From the one? If the guy blitzes and you can't get the play off you throw it out of the end zone or away. IIRC, it was 3rd down. Throwing it away is tantamount to giving up on the TD and settling for the FG. Instead, Holcomb chose to throw it to a guy who was a few yards back. If the defender makes the tackle, the field goal is still a chip shot. If the receiver puts a spin move on the defender or something and breaks the tackle, it's a TD.
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