UConn James Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Holcomb is not the second coming of Jim Kelly, and Losman is not the second coming of Holcomb, at this point...he has not even been the second coming of Rob Johnson...he is not ready to start! Don't misplace all your hate on Holcomb, because Losman was below everybody's expectations....remember what Jeff Buckley said! You know the part about "evasion of reality!" 499649[/snapback] To me, the "evasion from reality" is in seeing Holcomb as anything other than a below-average QB who is very long in the tooth by NFL standards. Losman was named the starter and only got to play FOUR fuggin' games. KH has better comp/att numbers... whoop-di-do. Hasn't produced any more scoring, which is what actually matters in this league. I'd rather play the guy with some upside; and find out what we've got this year rather than repeat this crap next season and turn one season wandering through thwe woods trying to find our QB into two, three, ....
Like A Mofo Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 I voted Holcumb but what do I know...maybe I still would like to see the Bills win a few games and maybe make their first playoff appearence since 1999...so what if they got in at 9-7? Isnt it better then being out of the playoffs....plus Holcumb has been so terrible...yep, hes ALWAYS had a fair shake at a starting job, he sucks because he has always been a backup, ALL coaches and scouts are always SO right on about QB's, like Leaf, Andre Ware etc...we all know that we all knew Kurt Warner would be awesome before Rams training camp in 1999 (Im not suggesting KH is the next Warner, but you get my drift) 3-5, 1 game out of 1st, lets just start the kid, HOPING he MIGHT be good...and sacrifice the season...sure, that sounds like fun, what was I thinking.... Bills season has already been decided because 10000000000 opinions have been made, the schedule has been broken down, predicted, and we ALL know the Bills results before they happen...why try to win at all???? Let the sports shows, callers on shows, and tools like Jerry Sullivan decide the rest of the season right now!!!
NYGPopgun10 Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Andre Ware? Man...that's just crazy. Where's Browning Nagle and the leader of the popgun, Dave Brown!
Buftex Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Hasn't produced any more scoring, which is what actually matters in this league. I'd rather play the guy with some upside; and find out what we've got this year rather than repeat this crap next season and turn one season wandering through thwe woods trying to find our QB into two, three, .... 500043[/snapback] You make a nice argument, but it is not true. The Bills are averaging 8 points more per game with Holcomb, against roughly the same quality of opponents. In four games, with Losman, the Bills put 48 points on the board. In four starts with Holcomb, they have put up 80. For all the crying about Holcombs' lack of mobility (another falicy), he has been sacked exactly the same number of times as Holcomb (10) The teams #1 receiver, has 27 receptions with Holcomb in there, compared to 10 with Losman. I think you might agree that a team has to move the ball to score. Holcomb has nearly doubled Losman in yardage (790-433), and while Holcomb has thrown three ints to Losmans two (and I won't even mention all of JP's near intereceptions), Holcomb has thrown 6 td's to Losmans' 1! I know QB ratings don't indicate that a QB is great, but they may be more reliable in illustrating that a QB is playing bad. Holcomb's QB rarting is 92.0, while JP is at a miserable 55.9! I don't think any Bills QB in the last 25 years has had a string of worse games than JP. It is possible Joe Dufek or Bruce Mathison achieved this low, but I don't think so... I am not really a stat geek, and I don't have the time or patience to figure it out, but I would be that the Bills third down conversion percentage with Holcomb, dwarves that of JP. When Losman played, the team would open up with one decent drive, and then follow it up with one series aftrer another of three and outs. You just can't win football games like that. I am not against JP starting, if the Bills went that way, it would be understandable. I personally just do not think this kid is ready to succeed, and in fact, throwing him to the lions might do him more harm than good. He is very, very raw. In all of the New England Patriots hype over the last few years, Brady, and a few other insiders with the team, have mentioned that if Brady had been thrust into the starting position in his first season, he likely would have failed miserably. I know JP sat on the sidelines for a year already, but consider that he didn't play all that much in college, and spent the majority of his rookie year concentrating on rehab rather than playing QB. It just pisses me off to see people throwing Kelly Holcomb under the bus, because they are so anxious to see Losman. Holcomb has not played perfectly, but I think he has played pretty damn well. In fact, I thought he played terrific in both losses, save the 4th & 7 play against the Pats. Yet, you people make it seem like he has been the cause of all of the losses. We would have been creaming our jeans if we had gotten the kind of play out Bledsoe in 2004, as we are from Holcomb in 2005. All of the Bills problems certainly don't fall on Losman's shoulders, and they sure as sh-- shouldn't fall on Holcomb either.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Kelly Holcomb, I'm not much of a stats guy, just go off what I've seen. I'm not a draft guru nor do I care what we gave up for losman, as I feel it doesn't matter, and you play who gives your team the best chance to win. Right now I feel Holcomb gives the bills a significantly better chance to win and be competative then losman. This is a hard question to answer in the sense that some people tend to be placing too much blame of the quaterback position as if it's the difference for this team being good or bad. It's really not. Our defense is woefully inadequate especially against the run, our oline is inconsistent at best and other times looks rather bad. However I think given the circumstances of our oline, and questionable play calling Holcomb has managed to play well. Losman should've never been handed the job right off the bat. I'm a believer in regardless of draft position you play the best player, Holcomb has proven he's better then Losman. If/When we're out of contention fine put losman back in, however if when he goes back in over that course of games he shows no improvement then you cut your losses. If he's still struggling to throw for even 80 yards you cut rope. No sense in wasting more time on someone that bad. If Losman doesn't get time to play because we're in it till the end of the season, but don't make it I also wouldn't hand him the job next season. I'd build the dline, and oline through free agnecy and the draft, and have an open comp between Holcomb and Losman to open training camp and into preseason. If Losman is as good as some say he is then this is the only fair way to do it, and if his ego is so fragile that being bench "ruined" him well then he's not a guy I want to see as our "savoir franchise quaterback" Losman will eventually get his chance to prove his worth and I hope he's up to the task but I'm not gonna cover the guy in a shroud just because we drafted him in the 1st. Losman doesn't have to be some miracle worker. Just improve his accuracy, and lean on mcgahee. Improving the oline, dline, and getting Evrett Healthy for the end of the season into next might do Losman a world of good.
apuszczalowski Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 Holcomb has not played perfectly, but I think he has played pretty damn well. In fact, I thought he played terrific in both losses, save the 4th & 7 play against the Pats. Yet, you people make it seem like he has been the cause of all of the losses. We would have been creaming our jeans if we had gotten the kind of play out Bledsoe in 2004, as we are from Holcomb in 2005. All of the Bills problems certainly don't fall on Losman's shoulders, and they sure as sh-- shouldn't fall on Holcomb either. 500243[/snapback] I don't blame Holcomb for any of the losses (well except for the stupid 4th and 7 play that wasn't entirelyhis fault) but I also wouldn't go as far as saying he has been terrific. He has played Decent. But he is a backup QB, and a good backup at best. I think what most fans are saying is that we were prepared to have a average season this year and expected JP to have rough moments. At the halfway point of the season we are average at best and are hoping to make the playoffs. But to make the playoffs we are not allowing our future starting QB to develop on the field like the plan was at the begining of the year, leaving us wondering about the future of our team. Most people already wrote off most of this year for JP's Developement and have accepted a mediocore season with hopesit will make us better for years to come. Now because they have this pipe dream of being a playoff team this year, they are setting this team back by not developing the future QB and hopeing a 9 year backup QB will take us to the playoffs and the fans will be happy. I don't expect the bills to be challenging Indy next year for the top team in the AFC if JP started all of the games this year, but I would expect them to be a team competing for a wildcard spot or maybe the AFC east if NE really has taken a step back.
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 You make a nice argument, but it is not true. The Bills are averaging 8 points more per game with Holcomb, against roughly the same quality of opponents.500243[/snapback] I'd like to call bull sh-- on that one. Looking at the quality of the defenses Losman has faced vs. Holcomb, I would bet you that Holcomb would not have fared better in those games, save for possibly against NO, where Losman got rattled on the road -- you can expect this early on from a rookie. The defenses in the three losses were harrassing our O-line all day, playcalling was inept and inconsistent, and we weren't running the ball successfully in 2 of those 3 games. At the same time, Holcomb got a couple gimmes at home (and Holcomb has yet to prove he can win on the road) against reeling the reeling Jets and Felons. Maybe VERY roughly the same level of opponents, but nowhere near the same situations.
oregonbbfan Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 I feel Losman should start but that sends a message for this year. Example is Bollinger in NYJ will be/may already be ahead of JP. Different situation on why he's starting but is providing a spark, is learning and improving. How long before we start thinking long term instead of short term mediocrity.
Buftex Posted November 11, 2005 Posted November 11, 2005 I'd like to call bull sh-- on that one. Looking at the quality of the defenses Losman has faced vs. Holcomb, I would bet you that Holcomb would not have fared better in those games, save for possibly against NO, where Losman got rattled on the road -- you can expect this early on from a rookie. The defenses in the three losses were harrassing our O-line all day, playcalling was inept and inconsistent, and we weren't running the ball successfully in 2 of those 3 games. At the same time, Holcomb got a couple gimmes at home (and Holcomb has yet to prove he can win on the road) against reeling the reeling Jets and Felons. Maybe VERY roughly the same level of opponents, but nowhere near the same situations. 500337[/snapback] I said roughly. Holcomb played against no defensive team as awful as the Texans (his one win) or the Saints. It is true that the defenses in Losman's three losses harassed the O-line all day, but did you watch the Raiders game? That may have been the O-lines worst performance all year, as well as the worst defensive effort of the year. The bottom line is, Losmans' performance aided the defenses, because he could not read defenses fast enough. I don't agree at all that Holcomb would not have performed better in any of Losmans' three losses. Holcomb, as much disdain as is being fabricated by Losman fanatics, has a quick release. He gets rid of the ball quickly! Losman does not yet have that ability. If Losman had been the starting QB against the Raiders or Patriots, for that matter, those losses would have been far worse.
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