TNBillFan Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 No one with a football clue would have been willing to bet that JP would be a stud quarterback in his first year. He has the ability but has no pro experience and only a mid-major (my apologies to the Green Wave) college background. Expecting even competance this early is nice but totally unrealistic. It happens very rarely with quarterbacks. Consider the following names and check out their first and second year experiences (and sometimes much longer): Starr, Namath, Staubach, Bradshaw, Young, Farve, Elway, both Mannings, Garcia, Fouts. Give Losman time and, in the meantime, give the ball to the running back.
ajzepp Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 No one with a football clue would have been willing to bet that JP would be a stud quarterback in his first year. He has the ability but has no pro experience and only a mid-major (my apologies to the Green Wave) college background. Expecting even competance this early is nice but totally unrealistic. It happens very rarely with quarterbacks. Consider the following names and check out their first and second year experiences (and sometimes much longer): Starr, Namath, Staubach, Bradshaw, Young, Farve, Elway, both Mannings, Garcia, Fouts. Give Losman time and, in the meantime, give the ball to the running back. 465913[/snapback] I agree with everything you said, however I've changed my stance from that position. The reason is because the strategy we were supposed to win with has completely gone awry. We were supposed to be a smash mouth team on offense, running the ball down opponents throats. Our defense was supposed to play lights out, get turnovers, and occasionally even score. In this environment, JP could have time to adapt to the speed of the game and improve, while at the same time not sacrificing our wins. Well, we're now 1-3. The strategy isn't working (through no fault of Willis', I might add). We need to make sure that we don't screw up our chances at the playoffs just to get JP experience. There is too much talent on this team to just let this season be about JP. If he wins the next two and gets us back to .500, then I say he bought himself more time. Otherwise, put Holcomb in there and lets see where this team can go.
Ramius Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I agree with everything you said, however I've changed my stance from that position. The reason is because the strategy we were supposed to win with has completely gone awry. We were supposed to be a smash mouth team on offense, running the ball down opponents throats. Our defense was supposed to play lights out, get turnovers, and occasionally even score. In this environment, JP could have time to adapt to the speed of the game and improve, while at the same time not sacrificing our wins. Well, we're now 1-3. The strategy isn't working (through no fault of Willis', I might add). We need to make sure that we don't screw up our chances at the playoffs just to get JP experience. There is too much talent on this team to just let this season be about JP. If he wins the next two and gets us back to .500, then I say he bought himself more time. Otherwise, put Holcomb in there and lets see where this team can go. 465934[/snapback] Holcomb isnt going to take us anywhere either...he had 2 huge games that everyone remembers, but they all forget the slew of JP-like mediocre games hes had...leave JP in for better or worse, because we dont have the team to make a deep playoff run...we need to know where hes gonna be next year, not hafta start fresh again...
JRT Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I agree with everything you said, however I've changed my stance from that position. The reason is because the strategy we were supposed to win with has completely gone awry. We were supposed to be a smash mouth team on offense, running the ball down opponents throats. Our defense was supposed to play lights out, get turnovers, and occasionally even score. In this environment, JP could have time to adapt to the speed of the game and improve, while at the same time not sacrificing our wins. Well, we're now 1-3. The strategy isn't working (through no fault of Willis', I might add). We need to make sure that we don't screw up our chances at the playoffs just to get JP experience. There is too much talent on this team to just let this season be about JP. If he wins the next two and gets us back to .500, then I say he bought himself more time. Otherwise, put Holcomb in there and lets see where this team can go. 465934[/snapback] I don't think Holcom has faired any better than JP at this point. Let the kid learn and give the ball to McGahee.
mead107 Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 Holcomb isnt going to take us anywhere either...he had 2 huge games that everyone remembers, but they all forget the slew of JP-like mediocre games hes had...leave JP in for better or worse, because we dont have the team to make a deep playoff run...we need to know where hes gonna be next year, not hafta start fresh again... 465936[/snapback] right on . the Oline sucks and the D can not stop the rrun . JP needs the playing time or he will not be better next year and then every one will want to start someone else next year when JP will looks the same as now .
ajzepp Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 Holcomb isnt going to take us anywhere either...he had 2 huge games that everyone remembers, but they all forget the slew of JP-like mediocre games hes had...leave JP in for better or worse, because we dont have the team to make a deep playoff run...we need to know where hes gonna be next year, not hafta start fresh again... 465936[/snapback] I hear you, and I think a lot of people feel that way.....but I guess my view is that if you have a strong running game and a strong defense, you can definitely make noise in the playoffs. Willis is having a great year, he's just underutilized. The D has played like crap at times so far, but it makes little sense and I have faith that they will get it together. If they're going to leave JP in there, for the love of God RUN WILLIS. We should be at least 2-2 right now.
Buckeye Eric Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 We were supposed to be a smash mouth team on offense, running the ball down opponents throats. Our defense was supposed to play lights out, get turnovers, and occasionally even score. 465934[/snapback] The interesting thing here is the "who"! I think it was the fans who set these expectations. The team is not meeting our expectations based on our information. Unfortunately, fan expecations and information is often not based in reality.
buckeyebrian Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 No one with a football clue would have been willing to bet that JP would be a stud quarterback in his first year. He has the ability but has no pro experience and only a mid-major (my apologies to the Green Wave) college background. Expecting even competance this early is nice but totally unrealistic. It happens very rarely with quarterbacks. Consider the following names and check out their first and second year experiences (and sometimes much longer): Starr, Namath, Staubach, Bradshaw, Young, Farve, Elway, both Mannings, Garcia, Fouts. Give Losman time and, in the meantime, give the ball to the running back. 465913[/snapback] Amen to that, and craft a game plan that he can execute
Buftex Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I don't think Holcom has faired any better than JP at this point. Let the kid learn and give the ball to McGahee. 465937[/snapback] You may be right. However, just because you "don't think" Holcomb could have done any better, doesn't make it true. Maybe the team would only be 1-3 with Holcomb in there, but I think (since we are basing this whole thing on what we think, and have no real proof) that Holcomb would have made plays that were available to JP, along the way, that would have moved the ball much more than what we have seen. Believe me, I am not condemning JP. There is a lot to like about him. I get the whole, Eli, Favre, Palmer thing (ad nausium), but the reality is, who is to say that a number of things wouldn't be different, if the offense was moving the ball some. Maybe if the defense isn't on the field so long, maybe the make at least some of those third down stops. It pains me to say it, but I agree with ajzepp. We have seen what level JP is at for 4 games. We are heading into an extremely important 4 game swing, that will ultimately determine if this team can do anything this year. If they don't win at least 3 of those 4, the season, for all intents and purposes becomes about building for next year. That will give JP 8 games to get better. It just seems like the same people who were calling for Bledsoes' head last season, even when the team was winning, are the same ones who are already conceding this season as yet another building year, after only 4 weeks. As Kelly the F & B Dog has pointed out numerous times, Losman has great confidence. Benching him is not going to ruin his career.
ajzepp Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 It pains me to say it, but I agree with ajzepp. 466053[/snapback] Yeah, well it pains me to hear it, too, ya SOB!!!!
Dr. Fong Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 That's why I think in the present NFL it's not always wise to draft your QB of the future. There's too much growing time involved and too much money invested in a high draft pick. Sometimes it works out (McNabb, Manning, etc.), but when it doesn't it has disasterous results.
RI Bills Fan Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 It just seems like the same people who were calling for Bledsoes' head last season, even when the team was winning, are the same ones who are already conceding this season as yet another building year, after only 4 weeks. 466053[/snapback] You mean the same people who were loudly trumpeting that ABB (Anybody But Bledsoe) could guide this team to the promised land? The ones who last year claimed our line was adequate for a mobile QB? The ones who claimed Josh Reed was a wasted draft pick? Those Football Experts?
Kelly the Dog Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 The next two games obviously are going to be the key to the season. If the defense doesn't play better, we're not going to the playoffs whether it's JP or KH at the helm. If the coaching doesn't get better, we're not going to the playoffs either with either QB. If the defense plays a lot better and the coaching is a lot better and JP still stinks, we're either going to squeak out wins, or this season is likely going to be shot by losses in our division and a 1-5 record. If JP starts to play better then there is no reason to put in Holcomb whether we win or lose. Frankly, just because of the way things have happened, I just don't see many scenarios that we will see KH start any games barring injury. The only way I see it is if JP is terrible against the Dolphins, the defense plays great, and JP is benched again for KH who rallies us to a win. Then, and perhaps only then, will KH start. And even then they may stick with JP and let KH be the relief pitcher. And if the defense does play better and the coaching does get better and JP still sucks and KH leads us to wins, as soon as KH starts to play poor and we're out of serious playoff consideration, JP goes back to being the starter. And this, IMO, is the least likely of all the possible scenarios. No one knows for sure, but I would bet that JP starts every game this season barring injury.
Dan Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 The problem with benching JP is... what good does it get you? Now, if we're reasonably confident that KH will get us to the Superbowl that's one thing, but lets face it - that ain't gonna happen. So, if JP is sucking because he has no experience and he's benched, when does he get that experience? We put in KH just so we can have a chance of possibly making the playoffs, only to decide that he's not the answer. Then next season we start JP and we're in the same place we are now... a young QB with no experience. So, I say keep him in and write off this season as lost, but hope for the best - maybe he can come around and we make the playoffs. Either way next year, we're actually better at that position. In essence waste 1 year with JP, not 2. Because benching JP for KH will certainly waste this year. If KH was a palyoff caliber QB, why's he in Buffalo backing up a 2nd year guy? So, anyone that thinks KH is the answer is diluted. T There's absolutely no assurance that JP riding the bench another year will suddenly make him a quality QB. If he plays at least we'll begin to have that answer by the end of the season.
Buftex Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 There's absolutely no assurance that JP riding the bench another year will suddenly make him a quality QB. If he plays at least we'll begin to have that answer by the end of the season. 466202[/snapback] There is absolutely no assurance that starting Holcomb won't lift the team either. What happened to all of the "signing Holcomb was one of the best moves in the offseason" stuff? Or was that all just hype too? It is only week 4 people! Stranger things have happened than a journeymen like Holcomb coming in and being successful. These last two games could have been won, if someone (not just JP) could have stepped up and made a play or two. The plays were there to be made. How many games can you stand to lose like that? I thought the game was about winning. Is it now about assuring that a number 1 draft pick pans out in the future, to save face? Don't quit on this season yet!
Dan Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 Well, I certainly wasn't someone that signing KH was the greatest thing since sliced bread. But, I do see your point. Stranger things have happened. I haven't given up on the season, mostly because I never really got behind the season. I being somewhat level headed and a student of history, knew that JP was going to struggle this year. That he would play some games and look good and then follow up a week later looking miserable. So the season, in my mind is not at all lost. In fact, we're 1 game better than we were last year. And of our 3 losses, 2 were to teams that are (at this point) looking like Superbowl contenders. I'm not saying we should protect a No. 1 pick or anything. I'm just saying that if JP supposedly has all the potential that everyone seems to think he has, then why don't we let him play and develop that potential. He was pulled last week when we were down by 6 points. How great for his and the teams confidence would it have been if he were able to struggle all game like he had and finally get a drive together in the 4th quarter that put us in the lead? Win or lose, it would have done immeasurable good to this team not on now but for years to come - certainly in comaprison to him watching KH try. If we don't give him a chance, how will he ever become the starter of the future that leads us to the Superbowl?
Peter Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 At this point, we really have no choice but to stick with Losman and hope that he can get it together and right the ship. The Bills made their decision and there really is not alternative at this point. Unless Holcomb shows them something that he has not shown on the field yet, let's see what JP can do so that the Bills can evaluate whether he is the QB of the future if not the present. Unless we can get it together soon (with any luck beginning this week by kicking the sh*t out of the Dolphins), this season appears to be another disappointing season in which the Bills fail to make the playoffs yet again. It really is too bad given all of the high hopes that we had for the season.
Buftex Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 A It really is too bad given all of the high hopes that we had for the season. 466257[/snapback] That is the point. It is not over. We have won the only inner-conference game we have played, and have yet to lose to any of our (apparently) equally struggling divisional foes. Despite the three miserable losses, this is not as bad as it looks, if the Bills can get their crap together the next 4 weeks.
BillnutinHouston Posted October 5, 2005 Posted October 5, 2005 I'm gonna say it as clearly as I can - I believe in the kid. Even if he doesn't get it done in Buffalo (with our OL), he will get it done elsewhere. He has too much raw talent and competitive fire to not succeed. All he lacks is experience. If we give him an opportunity we will be rewarded. Patience is hard but necessary.
Recommended Posts