OK, I'll join the fray.

[Ghost of BiB]

Write it off. I'm not saying give up, but DON'T try to create stop gap measures in a bid to have some kind of playoff spot that you'll likely lose in the first or second round. Other teams are improving, we keep treading water. Win where you can, but for damn sake stick with something for a while. This team has more than a couple of holes. Bring in the football version of QA/QC and use the season as a laboratory. Figure out, REALLY figure out what the team needs to be successful. Start now planning to those goals, whether it be operations, personnel, whatever. We'll still likely go about 7-9 to 9-7 and who knows? But next year? No excuses.

 

Unless this offensive line crap gets fixed, nothing else is going to happen. Interior D line acts like the revolving door at the mall. Fix it. We're good on receivers - no more speedy little draft choices. Staff - you wanted Losman, you got him. We've been screwed for several years with QB play. Whatever is wrong, fix it. Don't dance around it.

 

Yup, once again, don't make dumb stopgap moves. It's about time 1BD really make an effort to round out the team. If quality has to be cut somewhere to bring another facet of the game up, cinch the belt and do it.

 

I just have a concern that we will have another year of close, and should have beens, but barring a miracle they won't get there. Then, without the right kind of mindset, we'll have another off season of stop gap, mysterious and sometimes flashy moves to keep us right where we are.

 

Power running game? Behind THAT line with a QB not fooling anyone? Anyone want more than 2 seasons out of WM? Scrambling, accurate QB with a rifle arm?

 

Fix it.

[jahnyc]

Management did a poor job of filling holes in the offseason. We needed upgrades on the o-line and we lost Jennings, who at least was consistent in his play. We signed a couple of guys who would have provided decent depth but are instead starters. We lost P. Williams and did not find a replacement. I would hate to go into this off-season trying to fix the o-line and DT and then lose Clements. That would be a lot to accomplish in one off-season.

[Mark VI]

True.. but if the Coaching staff continues to call a bad game, it really doesn't matter. They have to be realistic concerning the roster and play to their strengths.

 

The first 3 games show us running the ball often is a GOOD idea, with the pass protection being poor. Losman shouldn't be attempting more than 18-20 passes a game.

[SouthernMan]

Write it off. I'm not saying give up, but DON'T try to create stop gap measures in a bid to have some kind of playoff spot that you'll likely lose in the first or second round. Other teams are improving, we keep treading water. Win where you can, but for damn sake stick with something for a while. This team has more than a couple of holes. Bring in the football version of QA/QC and use the season as a laboratory. Figure out, REALLY figure out what the team needs to be successful. Start now planning to those goals, whether it be operations, personnel, whatever. We'll still likely go about 7-9 to 9-7 and who knows? But next year? No excuses.

 

Unless this offensive line crap gets fixed, nothing else is going to happen. Interior D line acts like the revolving door at the mall. Fix it. We're good on receivers - no more speedy little draft choices. Staff - you wanted Losman, you got him. We've been screwed for several years with QB play. Whatever is wrong, fix it. Don't dance around it.

 

Yup, once again, don't make dumb stopgap moves. It's about time 1BD really make an effort to round out the team. If quality has to be cut somewhere to bring another facet of the game up, cinch the belt and do it.

 

I just have a concern that we will have another year of close, and should have beens, but barring a miracle they won't get there. Then, without the right kind of mindset, we'll have another off season of stop gap, mysterious and sometimes flashy moves to keep us right where we are.

 

Power running game? Behind THAT line with a QB not fooling anyone? Anyone want more than 2 seasons out of WM? Scrambling, accurate QB with a rifle arm?

 

Fix it.

456855[/snapback]

 

Offensive line is the achilles heal (sorry TKO) of this team. We go into 2005 with a 40% changeover from 2004, and when one of the linemen (such as Mike Williams this past week) goes down, that attrition rate goes to a staggering 60%. How many times throughout the years have we heard of the importance of chemistry and continuity for O-linemen? Now, just for fun, we throw in an inexperienced QB.

 

Once the O-line gets it together, the passing game should start to click. It'll be interesting to see what, if any, effect Parrish has when he comes back.

[Bill from NYC]

>>>>>Unless this offensive line crap gets fixed, nothing else is going to happen.<<<<<

 

BiB, therein lies the problem. In another thread about TD, I posted the 10 year draft record of the Bills and Steelers wrt the OL. On the Steelers, TD was fond of first day offensive lineman draft picks.

With the Bills, he has taken all of 2. One is Mike Williams who makes a billion dollars a year. The other (Jennings) is of course gone. Our last first day offensive lineman was selected 3 years ago .

Little Roscoe Parrish is not going to make the Bills a winning team. Neither will Evans, nor JP until we have a bunch of strong, agile guys who can protect the qb.

 

Pass protection is the hard part of OL play. Travis Friggin Henry was able to gain yards behind the Bills shoddy OL. Guys can, and would rather run block. They know the count and fire out.

We have had some very good defenses throughout the last 10 years, and how many playoff wins?

We are a cold weather team in a blue collar town. When the rain and snow appear and the cold winds blow, we need big guys who can dominate the LOS, not Roscoe Parrish in a cast or whatever.

 

It is starting to appear as if both Mr. Butler and TD were pressured from the top to select media darlings and gadget players in order to fill seats in lieu of the players that we need to win football games.

Maybe not, but these guys know/knew more about football than all of us combined. Can you tell me why they continue to neglect the most important aspect of the game?

The Bills are in bad shape, but the jests are worse off, the pats are hurting, and the dolphins suck. Whatever. We, as a franchise, will continue to resemble a dog chasing it's tail until we can block.

[34-78-83]

There are some very, VERY valid points in these posts yet I will still play a small devil's advocate and ask two questions:

 

1- Who here can say that Gandy has not to this point played as well or better than Jennings in both run blocking AND pass pro?

 

2- Considering the 2005 draft position we were in, what O-lineman would have come in and started over the existing guys?

[Bill from NYC]

There are some very, VERY valid points in these posts yet I will still play a small devil's advocate and ask two questions:

 

1- Who here can say that Gandy has not to this point played as well or better than Jennings in both run blocking AND pass pro?

 

2- Considering the 2005 draft position we were in, what O-lineman would have come in and started over the existing guys?

456894[/snapback]

 

I'll play....

 

1) Me

 

2) Not my job. TD is in charge and could have traded up or down. I am 100% sure that if he wanted a blocker, he could have got one. He didn't. He wanted a gadget player; a midget.

[34-78-83]

I'll play....

 

1) Me

 

2) Not my job. TD is in charge and could have traded up or down. I am 100% sure that if he wanted a blocker, he could have got one. He didn't. He wanted a gadget player; a midget.

456896[/snapback]

 

Request for an expansion on #1 ?

[JasoninMT]

I think there are 2 lines of thought with respect to the draft...

 

Rule #1, the draft is a gamble.

 

So, I say you have to make a concession... Draft the players who if they turn out well will be Expensive contracts later. This way you get the best value for your money if they turn out to be good. If they aren't good, you cut ties... You have to keep in mind you will need to pay the areas you neglected in the draft more money as FA to come here - because they are already quality players with nothing to prove (well, they should be anyways). I think where Tom Donahoe fails is that he tries to skimp out on FA... both retention and signing.

 

Rather than going out and getting or keeping the best available FAs, he assumes his Draft is "golden" and will make up for mediocre FA signings. This combined with poor O-Line drafting leads to the weak line we have today. His one "mega" o-line draft (Big Mike & #4 in the draft), isn't the second coming of Orlando Pace. Imho, letting Jennings go was a mistake.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

It is starting to appear as if both Mr. Butler and TD were pressured from the top to select media darlings and gadget players in order to fill seats in lieu of the players that we need to win football games.

 

The best and easiest way to fill seats is to win games. Suggesting that we draft "gadget players and media darlings" to fill up the stadium instead of trying to put out a winning product is asinine. I'm not saying that some of the draft choices shouldn't be questioned or debated, but I'm pretty sure that there's no conspiracy at 1BD to field a mediocre team and then see how they can "trick" fans into coming to games.

[Ghost of BiB]

All valid points, all have been discussed - sometimes very well. I'm looking at this point more to the recurring systemic problems. They are organizational in nature. Another way to look at things is that the players, and their performance on the field are the visible extension of the organization as a whole. There are a lot more support people than combat troops, people hear the name of the race car driver, but it takes a hundred people to put a competitive car on the track. Most of the threads here address which player(s) suck. I've seen some coaching comments (yes, baffles me too...) but anyone with more knowledge than me want to take some stabs on the organizational malaise this team suffers, and has suffered from for about 10 years now? I may not know football anywhere near as well as many of you, but I understand operations. This organization has many symptoms of a poorly run organization.

 

I just want to see some consistency and some wins strung together enough to make a difference. There's something wrong in the office keeping that from happening.

 

Edit. Good, we're going there. Carry on.

Edited September 27, 2005 by Ghost of BiB

[Bill from NYC]

Request for an expansion on #1 ? 

456900[/snapback]

 

Come on my friend. Jennings was blocking for a qb that although I supported, could not move around so well. Also, at this point of the season in 04, was Willis in there?

Of course not. We had Travis Gump, who was sliding on his ass, missing blocks, dropping passes and NOT gaining yards on the ground. JJ was also playing next to a sub par to average LG, as he did for the entire season.

I am not thrilled by Anderson, don't get me wrong; but he supposedly does come with some credentials as compared to Smith and Tucker.

Jennings was given a multi-year contract as a UFA. This is how LTs are paid. Gandy was given comparible pennies and a sprinkle or 2 of McNally Dust.

There is no reason from where I sit to think that this will work, especially considering the supporting cast.

[34-78-83]

Come on my friend. Jennings was blocking for a qb that although I supported, could not move around so well. Also, at this point of the season in 04, was Willis in there?

Of course not. We had Travis Gump, who was sliding on his ass, missing blocks, dropping passes and NOT gaining yards on the ground. JJ was also playing next to a sub par to average LG, as he did for the entire season.

I am not thrilled by Anderson, don't get me wrong; but he supposedly does come with some credentials as compared to Smith and Tucker.

Jennings was given a multi-year contract as a UFA. This is how LTs are paid. Gandy was given comparible pennies and a sprinkle or 2 of McNally Dust.

There is no reason from where I sit to think that this will work, especially considering the supporting cast.

456914[/snapback]

 

I didn't consider the immobile quarterback last from last year. Good backing to your response... Do you atleast share my surprise in how well Gandy has played to this point though? I dare say he's been the most consistent lineman along with Chris V.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

Would I rather have Jennings in there? Probably. Would I rather have him in there for $42 million dollars and maybe have to cut loose someone like Milloy, E-Mo, Fletch? Hell no. Bottom line, Gandy is starting at LT for us making next to nothing and JP has not been getting creamed from the blindside. Not hearing a ton about Gandy since the season has started says plenty.

[Bill from NYC]

I didn't consider the immobile quarterback last from last year. Good backing to your response... Do you atleast share my surprise in how well Gandy has played to this point though? I dare say he's been the most consistent lineman along with Chris V.

456921[/snapback]

 

To this point yes. That said, he will face players such as Abraham and Seymour twice, and God knows who else.

If he can handle it, he deserves an extension and a raise.

Am I optimistic? No.

Are you?

[SouthernMan]

There are some very, VERY valid points in these posts yet I will still play a small devil's advocate and ask two questions:

 

1- Who here can say that Gandy has not to this point played as well or better than Jennings in both run blocking AND pass pro?

 

2- Considering the 2005 draft position we were in, what O-lineman would have come in and started over the existing guys?

456894[/snapback]

 

It goes beyond just the 2005 draft. Donahoe has overseen five drafts with this club and has done little to address the line. There've been several like Ross Tucker and a bunch of others whose names I can't even remember - all who turned out to be busts.

 

O-line has been a problem for the Bills since Kent Hull hung up his cleats. Is it because of scouting, coaching, schemes, or is it something else?

 

I sure don't know the answer, but I've always believed that a team is only as good as their offensive line. Without the line, the offense sputters and it's 1,2,3,punt. Then, the defense, regardless of talent level, will get worn out and pretty soon, be about as effective as the offense.

[34-78-83]

To this point yes. That said, he will face players such as Abraham and Seymour twice, and God knows who else.

If he can handle it, he deserves an extension and a raise.

Am I optimistic? No. 

Are you? 

456933[/snapback]

 

Optimistic about facing Seymour? No way! Of course I wouldn't have been with Jennings either..

[bleedinblue]

Management did a poor job of filling holes in the offseason.  We needed upgrades on the o-line and we lost Jennings, who at least was consistent in his play.  We signed a couple of guys who would have provided decent depth but are instead starters.  We lost P. Williams and did not find a replacement.  I would hate to go into this off-season trying to fix the o-line and DT and then lose Clements.  That would be a lot to accomplish in one off-season.

456870[/snapback]

Jonas Jennings SF O line 05 -7 sacks allowed, blocked for 206 Yds rushing

Bills O line 05 - 7 sacks allowed, blocked for 339 yds rushing

 

Pat Williams 05 11 tackles, 5 assists, 1 sack

Ron Edwards 05 7 tackles, 2 assists

 

Record SF 1-2

Minn 1-2

Buff 1-2

 

Just don't see the big drop off

[Ghost of BiB]

Jonas Jennings SF O line 05 -7 sacks allowed, blocked for 206 Yds rushing

Bills O line 05 - 7 sacks allowed, blocked for 339 yds rushing

 

Pat Williams 05  11 tackles, 5 assists, 1 sack

Ron Edwards 05  7 tackles, 2 assists

 

Record SF 1-2

          Minn 1-2

          Buff 1-2

 

Just don't see the big drop off

456961[/snapback]

 

I don't think statistics tell the whole story, and I'm also not focusing on offensive line play.

[Bill from NYC]

I don't think statistics tell the whole story, and I'm also not focusing on offensive line play.

456974[/snapback]

 

Neither are the Bills Organization.