Brown fires back

[KRC]

boo hoo, whaaaaa! are you serious?

457296[/snapback]

 

Yup. Seeing the level of idiocy from the Dems recently, it is definitely plausible.

[Kevbeau]

Our country's propensity to "assign blame" never ceases to amaze me. Sometimes "sh-- happens."

 

Should Mike Brown entirely free from blame...of course not. But as in any critical management situation (whether emergency/manufacturing/military/business), the groundwork is laid by the first people on the scene...in this case local and state. Ideally, FEMA should have had a smooth hand-off from the state level and things should have already been rolling from there, but essentially they had to start at square one.

 

By the way, I belong to the AHRA. The short story is that Brown was "forced" out of the IAHA by a very influential member that he butted heads with, not for incompetency. I know I'm knitpicking and the job really had nothing to do with emergency response, but I understand the politics inherent to such organizations and to his credit, he lasted longer than most people would.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Our country's propensity to "assign blame" never ceases to amaze me. Sometimes "sh-- happens."

 

Should Mike Brown entirely free from blame...of course not. But as in any critical management situation (whether emergency/manufacturing/military/business), the groundwork is laid by the first people on the scene...in this case local and state. Ideally, FEMA should have had a smooth hand-off from the state level and things should have already been rolling from there, but essentially they had to start at square one.

 

By the way, I belong to the AHRA. The short story is that Brown was "forced" out of the IAHA by a very influential member that he butted heads with, not for incompetency. I know I'm knitpicking and the job really had nothing to do with emergency response, but I understand the politics inherent to such organizations and to his credit, he lasted longer than most people would.

457768[/snapback]

 

I would suspect that Brown's job at FEMA had little to do with emergency response as well. Ultimately, once you reach a certain level of management, the skills required become less specific to the speciality in question but are strictly management skills. Apparently, management doesn't materially change from specialty to specialty, which is why we see the trend in the military of increasing numbers of high-ranking officers with MBA's.

[Kevbeau]

I would suspect that Brown's job at FEMA had little to do with emergency response as well.  Ultimately, once you reach a certain level of management, the skills required become less specific to the speciality in question but are strictly management skills.  Apparently, management doesn't materially change from specialty to specialty, which is why we see the trend in the military of increasing numbers of high-ranking officers with MBA's.

457794[/snapback]

 

Currently enrolled in UGA's MBA program part-time (half way there )....like you said they tend to preach that managerial skills are transferrable from specialty to specialty.

 

My company tends to focus on MBA's from highly ranked schools. My experience is that the academics will give you the tools, but I definitely believe that regardless of degrees, some people are born managers, or as we put it "I don't care what school he went to...an **** is still an ****."

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I definitely believe that regardless of degrees, some people are born managers, or as we put it "I don't care what school he went to...an **** is still an ****."

457837[/snapback]

 

My experience is that, too. I'm a lousy manager, and I'm pretty sure a fancy MBA isn't going to change that. It sure hasn't for all the other lousy managers I've known.

 

On the other hand, I've known several good ones who'd be good without the MBA. Some of the best I've known didn't even have MBAs.

 

The bottom line, though, is that while I don't know what Brown's management experience was like, I do know that it was more important than his emergency response experience for the position he was in. Likewise Ray Nagin...whose problem was that he clearly had no experience or ability in either.

[Ghost of BiB]

I'm a good manager. When faced with a crisis I always shoot one to make an example, and the rest of the force generally falls into line.

[Live&DieBillsFootball]

The bottom line, though, is that while I don't know what Brown's management experience was like, I do know that it was more important than his emergency response experience for the position he was in. 

457930[/snapback]

 

Wait a minute...you don't think that it's important to have any experience other than "management" experience to head FEMA? So anyone with "some management experience" was qualified to be Deputy Director and then Director of FEMA?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Wait a minute...you don't think that it's important to have any experience other than "management" experience to head FEMA?  So anyone with "some management experience" was qualified to be Deputy Director and then Director of FEMA? 

458106[/snapback]

 

Based on my experiences with management...no, I don't. I'd say management ability's more important. A good manager can (and usually will) lean on SME's for guidance...but a bad manager with subject matter expertise will be a bad manager. I've seen it many different times in many different industries; I have absolutely no reason to believe that it somehow wouldn't hold true in this one particular case.

 

When you get to a certain level in an organization "management" ceases to be subject-matter specific and tends to generalization, it seems. I suspect, for example, that Bill Gates would ultimately be as effective managing an auto parts manufacturer as he is in IT, and conversely Ray Nagin would be as incompetent managing a McDonalds as he is managing a major metropolitian region.

[Ghost of BiB]

At that level of government, you have to understand systems, programs and agency linkages. Having ridden on a fire truck or crewed a Coast Guard helicopter is not very valuable experience.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

At that level of government, you have to understand systems, programs and agency linkages. Having ridden on a fire truck or crewed a Coast Guard helicopter is not very valuable experience.

458126[/snapback]

 

Plus, Mike Brown's experience with the horses' asses made him uniquely suited to manage a government agency.

[Chilly]

Its amazing how much this thread imitates real life.

 

The right blaming the governor and the mayor, and claming a "Bush bad" agenda. The people on the left (including me) blaming the federal government and FEMA.

 

And so many here like to think that they are above party lines....

[Chef Jim]

Its amazing how much this thread imitates real life.

 

The right blaming the governor and the mayor, and claming a "Bush bad" agenda.  The people on the left (including me) blaming the federal government and FEMA.

 

And so many here like to think that they are above party lines....

458449[/snapback]

 

Yeah, pretty general stuff. They don't get much more right than me, and I haven't blamed anyone...........except maybe low pressure systems forming off the western coast of Africa.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Its amazing how much this thread imitates real life.

 

The right blaming the governor and the mayor, and claming a "Bush bad" agenda.  The people on the left (including me) blaming the federal government and FEMA.

 

And so many here like to think that they are above party lines....

458449[/snapback]

 

Uh, no. I blame Nagin because emergency preparedness is the responsibility of the municipality, and New Orleans wasn't prepared. Do you really think that FEMA maintains a plan for every single municipality in the country so that, in the event of an emergency, they can move in and say "We're taking over now."??? Believe it or not, the federal government is not responsible for everything. States and municipalites do have some responsibilities they have to fulfill.

[Chilly]

Uh, no.  I blame Nagin because emergency preparedness is the responsibility of the municipality, and New Orleans wasn't prepared.  Do you really think that FEMA maintains a plan for every single municipality in the country so that, in the event of an emergency, they can move in and say "We're taking over now."???  Believe it or not, the federal government is not responsible for everything.  States and municipalites do have some responsibilities they have to fulfill.

458454[/snapback]

 

Thats what most of the right is saying.

[Live&DieBillsFootball]

First of all, you have to blame Mother Nature. That B word really cooked up a wicked storm.

 

Mistakes were made by all involved. Let's hope they all learn something from it.

[erynthered]

First of all, you have to blame Mother Nature.  That B word really cooked up a wicked storm. 

 

Mistakes were made by all involved.  Let's hope they all learn something from it.

458514[/snapback]

 

 

You flip flopping?

 

You said this in this thread:

 

I don't blame Brown, I blame the Bush Administration

 

 

NOW, you say mistakes were made by all?

 

I'll be waiting on the spin cycle.

[KRC]

You flip flopping?

 

You said this in this thread:

NOW, you say mistakes were made by all?

 

I'll be waiting on the spin cycle.

458618[/snapback]

 

[spin control]

Brown may have made mistakes, but it was Bush's fault that the mistakes were made.

[/spin control]

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Thats what most of the right is saying.

458459[/snapback]

 

So what you're saying, in effect, is that the mayor of Milwalkee wasn't responsible when his entire city became ill with cryptosporidiosis because of faulty water treatment in the '90's...it was Clinton's fault, because municipal management is the responsibility of not just the federal government, but the executive branch of the federal government, and not the municipality itself. I'll bet the USGS and FEMA took too long to respond to the Northridge earthquake as well...? And it must be a bunch of presidents' faults that Buffalo's in receivership as well...

 

The federal government is not responsible for municipal planning. Municipalities are, be it budgeting, public health infrastructure, or emergency response.

[Ghost of BiB]

So what you're saying, in effect, is that the mayor of Milwalkee wasn't responsible when his entire city became ill with cryptosporidiosis because of faulty water treatment in the '90's...it was Clinton's fault, because municipal management is the responsibility of not just the federal government, but the executive branch of the federal government, and not the municipality itself.  I'll bet the USGS and FEMA took too long to respond to the Northridge earthquake as well...?  And it must be a bunch of presidents' faults that Buffalo's in receivership as well...

 

The federal government is not responsible for municipal planning.  Municipalities are, be it budgeting, public health infrastructure, or emergency response.

458732[/snapback]

 

Care to borrow a hammer?

[SilverNRed]

Thats what most of the right is saying.

458459[/snapback]

Which doesn't change the fact that it's true.