BRH Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Very impressive comeback, as usual. Apparently there isn't a talking point on the DNC website on this particular situation for you to cut and paste. 3808[/snapback] Hey, AD, if you don't like me because I don't participate in the big Bush lovefest over here, that's your prerogative. I notice you didn't have anything to say to MichFan. At least I'm upfront about where I'm coming from and who I support.
Alaska Darin Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Hey, AD, if you don't like me because I don't participate in the big Bush lovefest over here, that's your prerogative. I notice you didn't have anything to say to MichFan. At least I'm upfront about where I'm coming from and who I support. 3849[/snapback] It doesn't have anything to do with what candidate you support or whether or not I like you (I don't KNOW you). I didn't read the thread any further than your post, which I responded to. The same pretty much goes for Mich fan, though he has shown the ability to post thoughtfully outside his political party's standard points. You haven't.
Mickey Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 please point out where I repeated the lie of another. are those not words coming out of his mouth? thought so, thanks for playing. 3559[/snapback] Okay, I'll play it your way using the oh so honest cut and paste method: You have admitted that you repeated the lie of another, after all, you said, using your exact words: "I repeated the lie of another." So you admit that you are a liar. Well I'm glad that you are at least owning up to it. I think that entitles me, by your logic anyway, to just refer to you from now on as "gmac the liar." Afterall "are those not words coming" out of your mouth? All I did was delete the preface. You see, if a Joe Blow says "I heard some lunatic say that motherhood sux" it would be dishonest to claim that Joe Blow said that "motherhood sux". You really can't be so stupid as to not see that, are you? If you delete the preface, you change the meaning entirely. Thanks for playing.
gmac17 Posted August 22, 2004 Author Posted August 22, 2004 You see, if a Joe Blow says "I heard some lunatic say that motherhood sux" it would be dishonest to claim that Joe Blow said that "motherhood sux". You really can't be so stupid as to not see that, are you? If you delete the preface, you change the meaning entirely. uh...except all I did was use a meta description saying "in his own words" to describe a video in which (gasp) words actually do come out of his mouth. I made no cut and paste reference to certain things he did or did not say or in what context. I was referencing the fact that again - if you can grasp this - john f kerry was speaking in the ad.
John F. Kerry Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Very impressive comeback, as usual. Apparently there isn't a talking point on the DNC website on this particular situation for you to cut and paste. 3808[/snapback] Hey, stop picking on my operatives.
goatman Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Hey, stop picking on my operatives. 3980[/snapback] Hell...I'm picking on my nose!! Those swifty boys are right. I'm paying them a lot to say that. Whoops...Get my campaign guy out of that add. Hope they don't get my wartime colleagues on an add....OHHHHHH...I don't have any wartime buddies. Well..there was stretch and Tex. Nobody can find them though.
BRH Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Hey, stop picking on my operatives. 3980[/snapback] Yeah. Go back to picking your nose like GWB does!
goatman Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Yeah. Go back to picking your nose like GWB does! 3990[/snapback] TURN THE CORNER!!! TURN THE CORNER!!!!
John F. Kerry Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Yeah. Go back to picking your nose like GWB does! 3990[/snapback] Keep fighting the good fight, my brother. Just a hint, though. You might want to improve your debating skills. This was an extremely weak response.
goatman Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Good for you John...I think the nose picking thing is overplayed on this thing. Can't we get away from that and talk about my robust economy, how I balanced the budget, reduced the deficit, brought peace to the world and improved our standing and respect through out the world?
John F. Kerry Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Good for you John...I think the nose picking thing is overplayed on this thing. Can't we get away from that and talk about my robust economy, how I balanced the budget, reduced the deficit, brought peace to the world and improved our standing and respect through out the world? 4017[/snapback] That is it. Keep focusing on George. The less we talk about my record, the better I will do. All I have is the four months I spent in Vietnam. Other than that, there is not much for me to run on in this election.
goatman Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 yeah...and the less we focus on my record the better I'll do!!..The country now..that's a different story..its really a messed up one these last few years. Iraq, the economy, the budget, the stem cell thing, whatever the hell that is. If it weren't for the opportunity to wear that darn flightsuit, I'd just as soon go back to Texas.
John F. Kerry Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 yeah...and the less we focus on my record the better I'll do!!..The country now..that's a different story..its really a messed up one these last few years. Iraq, the economy, the budget, the stem cell thing, whatever the hell that is. If it weren't for the opportunity to wear that darn flightsuit, I'd just as soon go back to Texas. 4030[/snapback] You must have gone to the same debating school as BRH. At least the two of you are trying. Maybe, after a few years of practice, the two of you might actually be able to engage in an intelligent debate. We could use intelligent debators. We seem to have very few of them on our side. Like I said, I applaud the fact that the two of you are at least trying. Keep working on it Tennesseeboy.
goatman Posted August 22, 2004 Posted August 22, 2004 Don't you try to impress me with that debating school guff, John F. Kerry!!!! Girlie stuff...Try cheerleading for four years at Yale. YOU GET OUT THERE WITH POM-POMS like I did...Now that's heroism. Had guys trying to get in my room every night after I did my routine. That little jump with the Go Eli thing made them love this west Texas girl!!!
Mickey Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 uh...except all I did was use a meta description saying "in his own words" to describe a video in which (gasp) words actually do come out of his mouth. I made no cut and paste reference to certain things he did or did not say or in what context. I was referencing the fact that again - if you can grasp this - john f kerry was speaking in the ad. 3939[/snapback] If you can grasp this, he was quoting others. If I recited Hamlet would you consider that play to be my words or Shakespeare's? By cutting out the preface of his remarks showing that he was talking about what other people said, the Swift Boat Hacks for Slander were flat out dishonest. You perpetuated that dishonesty with the title "In his own words..." He was quoting others so lets take a look at the definition of quoting for a second: 1 a : to speak or write (a passage) from another usually with credit acknowledgment b : to repeat a passage from especially in substantiation or illustration The plain and simple fact is that the ad is a lie. These were not his words but the words of others whom he was quoting/reporting. By cutting out the remarks which establish that, they make the words sound like his when they are not. It is one thing to be fooled by the ad and quite another to continue to defend it once it has shown to be clearly dishonest. Any one could make the former mistake but it takes a real partisan to make the latter one.
Arondale Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 You see, if a Joe Blow says "I heard some lunatic say that motherhood sux" it would be dishonest to claim that Joe Blow said that "motherhood sux". You really can't be so stupid as to not see that, are you? If you delete the preface, you change the meaning entirely. 3911[/snapback] It would be dishonest to claim that Joe Blow said that "motherhood sux", BUT that is because Joe Blow's preface referred to that someone as a "lunatic". If Joe Blow said "my buddies, who I support, said that motherhood sux", it would not be dishonest. While I agree with you that the ad is misleading by not including that preface, I also do not believe the add is lying. John Kerry supported those claims and stood behind them; if he did not, then he would not have quoted others.
gmac17 Posted August 23, 2004 Author Posted August 23, 2004 While I agree with you that the ad is misleading by not including that preface, I also do not believe the add is lying. John Kerry supported those claims and stood behind them; if he did not, then he would not have quoted others. I agree - it does mislead as to the context, but the content really isn't too misleading. I think they should change the ad and put in the piece saying "soldiers have reported that...." - it doesn't change the effect of the ad. Kerry is describing allegations of others to make his point of the things that were going on in vietnam. When they show Kerry saying "they cut off heads" - Kerry was trying to further the allegations that Americans were guilty of cutting off heads. It's not like he was saying "others claim, but I don't believe that they cut off heads".
Mickey Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 It would be dishonest to claim that Joe Blow said that "motherhood sux", BUT that is because Joe Blow's preface referred to that someone as a "lunatic". If Joe Blow said "my buddies, who I support, said that motherhood sux", it would not be dishonest. While I agree with you that the ad is misleading by not including that preface, I also do not believe the add is lying. John Kerry supported those claims and stood behind them; if he did not, then he would not have quoted others. 4650[/snapback] What he did was quote those guys as to what they say they did in Viet Nam. There is nothing there for Kerry to "support" or not support. Either they were honest about what they did or they were lying. I am sure that at the time Kerry believed them and why wouldn't he? Why would some one say they did a terrible thing unless they actually did? In fact, I don't think anyone disbelieves what those guys say they did. The argument is over whether or not US forces committed atrocities in that war and if they did, were they regrettable but isolated incidents or something else. What the political opponents of Kerry want to do is convert what he said into an accusation by him that the majority of US troops committed atrocities. That is really where the controversey is and the bottom line is that it is a lie. The facts themselves, if we were to step away from this election for a second, are that it was an ugly war and occasionally, over the many, many years that the war dragged on, a handful of troops did some pretty rotten things. Nobody could seriously deny that was the case. Frankly, I can't beleive that anyone would seriously think that Kerry believed that the majority of US troops were committing atrocities in Viet Nam. Of course he didn't. At the same time, I can't believe that anyone would seriously think that in 12 years or so of a shapeless guerilla war our troops never got out of hand, not even once. The President needs the votes of veterans and is worried that Kerry, being a combat veteran and all, may take enough of those votes away to hurt. The response is basically to say, "Hey, vets, Kerry called all of you guys war criminals". So they are trying to turn a statement to the effect that "some of our actions in Viet Nam have been terrible and as proof I offer what these veterans have admitted to having done blah, blah, blah" to a statment to the effect that "Kerry called all vets baby killers". At the same time, there were some war criminals on our side. Lt. Calley comes to mind for example. There were also plenty of heroes who served in that war and did so honorably. One of them may become President someday...
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