What bothers me about JPL

[Arkady Renko]

Is that it's not like he's a gambler, throwing a lot of INTs but then showing signs of brilliance, but rather that he shows nothing at all.

 

He reminds me of Kordell Stewart back in the day. Running around for no purpose, short-hopping or overthrowing passes.

 

Most great QBs showed mistakes at this stage: misreading coverage, taking stupid risks, etc.

 

Didn't Todd Collins do better at this point?

[Mikie2times]

Is that it's not like he's a gambler, throwing a lot of INTs but then showing signs of brilliance, but rather that he shows nothing at all.

 

He reminds me of Kordell Stewart back in the day. Running around for no purpose, short-hopping or overthrowing passes.

 

Most great QBs showed mistakes at this stage: misreading coverage, taking stupid risks, etc.

 

Didn't Todd Collins do better at this point?

456151[/snapback]

 

I think that’s what he means when he say's he just needs to trust his reads and throw the ball. It looks like he is so worried about getting picked he becomes indecisive, and his accuracy falters. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see JP's INT totals rise as his production improves.

[Simon]

I think that’s what he means when he say's he just needs to trust his reads and throw the ball.

456156[/snapback]

Did Losman actually say this himself? I'd like to read the comment/interview if you have a link.

[Kelly the Dog]

Did Losman actually say this himself? I'd like to read the comment/interview if you have a link.

456191[/snapback]

he said that after the Bucs game. I'm not sure if he said that after this game as well. JP will be a good player, and has a chance to be great. It's going to take some time, which apparently a lot of people don't have.

 

What people also don't seem to realize is how much of a game is simply players making plays. The Bills were in a position to make plays in that game and for a variety of reasons, they simply didn't. That is why they lost. The Falcons did. That's why they won. JP slipping on 4th down when he should have made that first down is a guy not making a play. FF Smith slipping is a guy not making a play he should have made. The defense was in a position to contain Vick and they simply didn't make the play and he did. We're not that far away from being a good or very good team. Brian Finneran makes two plays. Warrick Dunn makes a couple cuts in the open field and he goes 60 and they get a demoralizing FG. Willis breaks through the line and slips (even though he had a good game). That's why the Falcons won.

[Mikie2times]

Did Losman actually say this himself? I'd like to read the comment/interview if you have a link.

456191[/snapback]

 

 

He said either those exact words or something very close to how I put it. It was talked about it in preseason and at least at one point during the regular season. I will try and find an article that has it.

[granitestatebillsbackers]

Let him throw. With a passer rating <40, he can't get much worse. So he tosses 5 interceptions like Boller did yesterday--in the process, he is going to figure out how to hit Moulds and Evans, it will spread the defense, and he'll get a chance to make some big plays.

 

There won't be many Ws on the board at first, but they'll come in due time.

[BuffBills#1]

This is actually a pretty good point. Let him throw the ball and see what happens.

[Arkady Renko]

How many rebuilding projects are we supposed to go through? I think the vast majority of the NFL has gone to the playoffs since 1999. Since then, we have just gone through so many abortive rebuilding tracts.

 

Perhaps I seem impatient, but I fail to see evidence that the team will have any better than 5 wins this year. Supposedly the idea was that the Bills were going to improve with Losman as QB, the seems unrealistic at this point. (I suppose he was supposed to be better than Bledsoe and also offset the loss of Pat Williams, and the aging of our vaunted defense.)

 

My stock portfolio, the Orioles and now the Bills have all completely collapsed in less than three months. I have lost patience and hope for any things out of my control improving, the Bills included.

[Simon]

He said either those exact words or something very close to how I put it. It was talked about it in preseason and at least at one point during the regular season. I will try and find an article that has it.

456197[/snapback]

If you don't have it handy, you don't have to go a'hunting for my sake. I was just curious about it because it was what I had been saying and I hadn't heard anybody else saying it.

If it's coming directly from the horse's mouth (or the parrot's if he's just repeating after Wyche) then I guess he knows better than anybody else.

Cya

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Is that it's not like he's a gambler, throwing a lot of INTs but then showing signs of brilliance, but rather that he shows nothing at all.

 

He reminds me of Kordell Stewart back in the day. Running around for no purpose, short-hopping or overthrowing passes.

 

Most great QBs showed mistakes at this stage: misreading coverage, taking stupid risks, etc.

 

Didn't Todd Collins do better at this point?

456151[/snapback]

 

No Todd Collins was not better at this point.

 

Collins was rushed into a start his rookie year when the Bills began to realize Kelly did not have it anymore and that they has waited a year too long to pick a replacement QB high in the draft,

 

The Bills were still a great team and Kelly was good enough to steer this team to a week early playoff spot (not a guarantee that a QB is good enough as Bledsoe almost did this with Bills last year and with the right coach can still do the job in spots).

 

In this start against Detroit, Collins showed the happy-feet which would be his eventual undoing early in his career. He did exoerience some success when the Bills has to recognize that Kelly was done and Ralph paid him a bribe to forget about Ralph's word of honor that he would sign Kelly to a big contract.

 

Collins did have some success in his initial career with the Bills and actually showed some accuracy that outpaced JP's dismal play this year. However, all it took was opponents getting some tape on the Bills max protect blocking schemes for Collins, he once again developed happy-feet. his accuracy suffered under the heightened pressure and Butler seemed so frigthetened by his QB assessment misues that he made a series of mistakes at the position:

 

1. Thinking Kelly would last and drafting a relacement QB a year too late.

2. Reaching up a little higher than many pundits thought he was worth to take Collins with a second.

3. Rushing Collins into service before he was adwequately trained and developing his happy0feet.

4. Tradung a 3rd for Hobert when Collins clearly was not the answer.

5. Trading for RJ was not a horrible idea actually as the 1st and 4th were about the going rate for a top QB propsect, but signing him to a huge contract which virtually guaranteed that he lied to Flutie when he promised him a shot in camp at starting.

6. Paying RJ guaranteed money when he had already signed Flutie to a deal which rolled his achieved bonuses into his base salary the next year, particularly when RJ already showed clear signs of talent but also the injury bug which was his ultimate undoing.

 

The suspicion was that JPL was actually a good potential answer as the QB ofthe future. This is obviously not a done deal in his first full year, but rather than showing nothing as you say, JP showed problems in mop-up duty but definite improvement each game last year (debacle against NE, took a delay of game his first game, but did actually take a timeout rather the dumb penalty his third game and actually began to show some moxie and control as he concluded his make-up stints.

 

Before you say JPL has shown nothin, do not forget that he did steer the team to a TD by handing off to WM his second game, he did diversify his attack in steering us to a TD in his third game and finally ran for a 1st down on a third down, hit a nice pass to Trafford to keep the clock moving and again steered us to a score while he was improving his play from debacle to needless penalty to needless TO in mop-up duty last year.

 

It strikes me that the JP development story this year is one of a player who has a: learned a lot more than he can do stuff with and b: is trying to switch from improvising which was his game in college to the consistent mechanics and decision he has been taught as a pro.

 

I would be worried about JP if he showed some natural problem which would be difficult to fix like happy-feet or fear and a lack of character.

 

Instead his problems seem to me that he is trying to hold himself back and do good things without improvising so much. I think the good news for Bills fans is that as he begins to plan more and see more of the game he will be able to do good things reflexively without thinking about them.

 

In addition, as he learns that he is our QB and learn that though MM will not play him if he cuks, that he can actually survive the benchings and come back and be played.

 

MM could take the route of building JPs confidence by refusing to bench him even if he made a mistake. However, JP is making too many mistakes and MM appears to have taken a route of letting him know that mistakes may get him benched, but he will get another chance so make mistakes and lets see what happens.

 

For many when he was drafted many TSW folks felt Collins was a done deal. After his first start a lot of folks felt Collins was a done. At ths point I think Collins life a Bill was overbut even after the two debacles from JP I do not feel good at all about the games but I still feel quite good about his prospects.

[Rubes]

The thing that worries me the most about JP is that the guy doesn't seem to know how NOT to take a hit.

 

He got absolutely pasted a few times during this game, often when he didn't need to. On a number of occasions, he looked like he could barely get up after the shot he took.

 

This guy had better learn to protect himself a little better or he won't make it to the end of the season.

[BuffOrange]

Sunny - Granted, Collins got a few games under his belt in '96 when Kelly was injured, but yes, Todd Collins started '97 better than JP has this year.

He threw for 300 yds (granted an unimpressive largely garbage time 300, but still...) vs. Minnesota on opening day and beat the Jets on the road in week 2 which included a nice deep ball TD to Quinn Early. I mean, he was a horrible QB and they had the worst 3rd down conversion rate in NFL history that year, but he did make a play or 2, which is a play or 2 more than JP has made at this point.

[Buftex]

Did Losman actually say this himself? I'd like to read the comment/interview if you have a link.

456191[/snapback]

 

 

Check out the audio for his press conferencs on either Sunday (9/25) or today (9/26) and you will hear it yourself. I think it was the one right after the game on 9/25. What KZOO Mike says is pretty accurate.

 

JP seems to go way out of his way to criticize himself, and then defend his play the result of being a "young QB". He does this so often, and consistantly, I am now convinced that this is what 2004 pre-daft analysts were talking about when they expressed concern over his maturity. We (or at least I did) took that to mean that he was kind of cocky or immature. Now I think they meant that he has trouble handling failure. Mularkey, Moulds and a few others have mentioned this trait in him on a number of occaisions as well, I think it may really be a problem. Hopefully he grows out of it. The kid obviously has some physical gifts, it is way too early to write him off.

 

Another curious thing about today's PC with JPL, is that he said twice that "we are starting to see flashes" of what he can do....uhhh, if that is the case JP, I had better get my eyes checked. JP has just played two horrendous games, back to back, after a competent first game. I am just getting the feeling, with each bad game, he is just not ready for this yet. It doesn't mean he never will be, but maybe a friendly challenge with Holcomb would help him some. He has now gotten his feet wet, maybe a game on the sidelines, with Wyche in his ear, explaining little things along the way might be helpful. I have been a little alarmed by his seeming inability to read defenses. I know all young QB's have this problem, but his problems look a little more severe than the average young guy. I am almost sure he knows it too. His wildly inaccurate passes look to be the result of being nervous, and a fear of making a mistake. Against the Falcons, when the Bills came out throwing long, JP overthrew by a mile. Last week, against the Bucs, he had Moulds open along the sidelines a number of times, and threw very high. It is like he is, subconsciously perhaps, throwing the ball where nobody can catch it, in an attempt to avoid throwing a pick. I keep having this fear that Moulds or Evans is going to get seriously injured trying to real in one of his passes. I hate to mention it, but this fear of making mistakes, I think, is what derailed Rob Johnson's career. He threw few picks, but he made few plays. RJ, like JP was very mobile, and had a great arm. Yet, he rarely made a play, because he just couldn't figure out whether to pass (or who to pass to) or if to run.

 

If indeed, the coaching staff is going to stick with Losman, I hope that they will devise some offense that will take advantage of his mobility. (That is the reason they decided to let the last guy go, isn't it?) Sure it makes him more suseptable to injury, but he has to make some plays, to get his confidence going. Guys like Favre, Young and Elway did alright for themselves, playing "out of control", didn't they? For all the sour grapes from Vick haters about him being a crappy pocket passer, I think most QB's and coaches, would settle for his win percentage.

 

Some Steelers fans I know, happen to think that Kordell Stewarts career was stunted because the Steelers, and he himself, tried to stress the "pocket passer" philosophy so much, he just simply couldn't unlearn what he knew fast enough, and eventually lost all of his confidence.

[Mikie2times]

Check out the audio for his press conferencs on either Sunday (9/25) or today (9/26) and you will hear it yourself.  I think it was the one right after the game on 9/25.  What KZOO Mike says is pretty accurate. 

 

JP seems to go way out of his way to criticize himself, and then defend his play the result of being a "young QB".  He does this so often, and consistantly, I am now convinced that this is what 2004 pre-daft analysts were talking about when they expressed concern over his maturity.  We (or at least I did) took that to mean that he was kind of cocky or immature.  Now I think they meant that he has trouble handling failure. Mularkey, Moulds and a few others have mentioned this trait in him on a number of occaisions as well, I think it may really be a problem.  Hopefully he grows out of it.  The kid obviously has some physical gifts, it is way too early to write him off. 

 

Another curious thing about today's PC with JPL, is that he said twice that "we are starting to see flashes" of what he can do....uhhh, if that is the case JP, I had better get my eyes checked.  JP has just played two horrendous games, back to back, after a competent first game.  I am just getting the feeling, with each bad game, he is just not ready for this yet.  It doesn't mean he never will be, but maybe a friendly challenge with Holcomb would help him some.  He has now gotten his feet wet, maybe a game on the sidelines, with Wyche in his ear, explaining little things along the way might be helpful.  I have been a little alarmed by his seeming inability to read defenses.  I know all young QB's have this problem, but his problems look a little more severe than the average young guy.  I am almost sure he knows it too.  His wildly inaccurate passes look to be the result of being nervous, and a fear of making a mistake.  Against the Falcons, when the Bills came out throwing long, JP overthrew by a mile.  Last week, against the Bucs, he had Moulds open along the sidelines a number of times, and threw very high.  It is like he is, subconsciously perhaps, throwing the ball where nobody can catch it, in an attempt to avoid throwing a pick.  I keep having this fear that Moulds or Evans is going to get seriously injured trying to real in one of his passes.  I hate to mention it, but this fear of making mistakes, I think, is what derailed Rob Johnson's career.  He threw few picks, but he made few plays.  RJ, like JP was very mobile, and had a great arm.  Yet, he rarely made a play, because he just couldn't figure out whether to pass (or who to pass to) or if to run. 

 

If indeed, the coaching staff is going to stick with Losman, I hope that they will devise some offense that will take advantage of his mobility. (That is the reason they decided to let the last guy go, isn't it?) Sure it makes him more suseptable to injury, but  he has to make some plays, to get his confidence going.  Guys like Favre, Young and Elway did alright for themselves, playing "out of control", didn't they?  For all the sour grapes from Vick haters about him being a crappy pocket passer, I think most QB's and coaches, would settle for his win percentage. 

 

Some Steelers fans I know, happen to think that Kordell Stewarts career was stunted because the Steelers, and he himself, tried to stress the "pocket passer" philosophy so much, he just simply couldn't unlearn what he knew fast enough, and eventually lost all of his confidence.

456244[/snapback]

 

I'm right with you on your views of his maturity, and tentativeness. He's had horrible accuracy but it has much more to do with indecision then mechanics. You don't get drafted in the first round if you can't hit somebody in the numbers.

 

I would like to see more games that have him throwing over 200 yards and if that includes some INT's so be it. He's so caught up in the managing the game talk that he won't take any risks. Most of the great young quarterbacks usually have fairly even TD/INT ratio the first year, some even have it lopsided toward the INT side. The following year is when you really see that change along with completion %.