TD DOES deserve credit for this...

[Solitary]

He was able to still get a high pick for damaged goods. The Bills knew as did the other teams that Henry was oone positive test away from a suspension, yet he was able to pull off the trade and avoid a bigger px on his own team. He does deserve credit for this move.

[Beerstm]

He also deserves credit for making fans believe hes built a playoff team.

456082[/snapback]

 

 

Your almost right.. he is building a playoff team. And when the Bills make it to the playoff's you'll be singing TD's praises.. until they lose thier first playoff game.

 

I hate bandwagon fans!

[NavyBillsFan]

Whats the difference what we get. Look who is making the selections in the draft. TD!

[finknottle]

He also deserves credit for making fans believe hes built a playoff team.

456082[/snapback]

 

And convincing the fans that TH was worth a first rounder... then a second rounder... then a third rounder.

[BillsObserver]

He was able to still get a high pick for damaged goods. The Bills knew as did the other teams that Henry was oone positive test away from a suspension, yet he was able to pull off the trade and avoid a bigger px on his own team. He does deserve credit for this move.

456077[/snapback]

 

I'm not quite sure if I'm buying what you're selling to me. Wasn't it quite obvious what should've been done with Travis Henry after last year? It wasn't Tom Donahoe who discovered this great idea. He had no other choice considering McGahee's performance in the previous year. Add in the fact that Travis didn't want anything to do with the Bills. I don't mind TD as much as other people do around here but I'm NOT giving him credit for this trade. It was an easy decision. The one good thing he did was be patient and not settle for a 5th round pick.

 

High pick? 3rd isn't bad at all for TH considering he's more of a burden these days than he is an asset. If the rumors were true about Jacksonville, we should've taken a 2nd from them.

[Adam]

Your almost right.. he is building a playoff team.  And when the Bills make it to the playoff's you'll be singing TD's praises.. until they lose thier first playoff game.

 

I hate bandwagon fans!

456130[/snapback]

Bandwagon is a bit harsh- some people have no patience, and always want instant gratification.....unfortunately, that doesnt happen as often as we like....thats why the Patriots beat everyone- they are patient, and wait for the impatient to self destruct.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I'm not quite sure if I'm buying what you're selling to me. Wasn't it quite obvious what should've been done with Travis Henry after last year? It wasn't Tom Donahoe who discovered this great idea. He had no other choice considering McGahee's performance in the previous year. Add in the fact that Travis didn't want anything to do with the Bills. I don't mind TD as much as other people do around here but I'm NOT giving him credit for this trade. It was an easy decision. The one good thing he did was be patient and not settle for a 5th round pick.

 

High pick? 3rd isn't bad at all for TH considering he's more of a burden these days than he is an asset. If the rumors were true about Jacksonville, we should've taken a 2nd from them.

456139[/snapback]

 

I think the thought that TD merely did what he had to do with the Henry trade is the same incorrect notion used by folks who give him no credit for managing this team out of cap hell a year or possibly two earlier than most expected.

 

It takes two folks to make a deal and trading is tough. On this board there were some who advocated simply cutting him (they were wrong), The Titans initially offered a 6th and dropped out (they gave up a 3rd and while this was the thing to do to try to buy low only a fool would not realize that TD needed to demand a 1st for him as part of a strategy of selling high), John Clayton (once again proved his idiocy) said TD was a greedy and missed out not taking a second day pick when it was offered (he was wrong). Wasn't he correct not to make these moves?

 

Many would have sang his praises for making them at the time and in retrospect he would have been ahead of the game getting just about anything for this supsended player. Folks would have sung his praises even more if he took the deal which Denny Green was offering him of Shelton givng the gap we were having at LT.

 

I just don't see how you can say it was so obvious when you list all the reasons Henry had to go and then do not give him any credit whatosever for reading the market correctly and refusing all these offers and comments which were made publicly and simply were far worse for the Bills than the first day pick TD got.

 

The same with those wo describe his cap management work as easy and forced to do. The 9ers (who overpaid the oft-injured Jennings as TD refused to do) had a significantly better record than the Bills in the 90s but are still in cap hell with their mismanged choices. AZ is another team which appears to be dealing with their cap problems by making the interesting choices that appear to still cost them, The Bengals spent years in cap hell but it clear what having good management can do rather than if a GM does not make good choices.

 

TD's biggeest screw-up in my opinion was chooising GW as HC as much as I can tell because he feared Marvin Lewis might do the same thing to him that Cowher did in Pitts and also passed on Fox. Both these men have had successes rebuilding squads even worse than the Bills at the time and my sense is he chose GW because he knew he could beat him.

 

He allowed GW to make series of mistakes (hiring Sheppard, replacing Sheppard with Killdrive over his choice Clements, mismanaging the D with is boy Gray and finally TD brought in his guy LeBeau who not only put in a working scheme but actually trained Gray incredibly well, allowing GW to hire his buddy Vinky and then Ruel as OL coaches when they were not up to the job. Hiring GW and then allowing him to make a series of mistakes without correcting him is a big part in my mind of why this team lost.

 

There were other TD errors like extending HJ and JH and then cutting them and why he did not cut Bledsoe after his horrid 2003 after a great 2002 is beyond me, but overall TG has done a very good job both on the field and off the field with the Bills.

 

1. His cap management overall has been superb getting us out of cap hell quickly,

2. He has attracted some good FAs to a small market town like Buffalo including Pro Bowlers Spikes, Adams, Milloy and Vincent. Adams in particular who he got to sign for a lower amount contract with the Bills than he apparently was offered elsewhere.

3. I think he has done a very good job drafting, His worse clinker appears to be MW, but OL was such a need its hard for me to see how he could have done something else and apparently McKinnie the other choice not only held out his first year but apparently just got arrested. His selection of two Pro Bowlers and Schobel his first year was good. The read of the market in letting Peerless go and then picking McGahee who he developed his injury and cap managed well and read the draft market well enough that he figured he could Kelsay in the second was simply great work. Overall, with the draft given the nature of injuries in the NFL and clinkers like Ryan Leaf, his trading away of 1sts for value for us (we desperately needed a QB after RJ and Bledsoe like him or not made and deserved the Pro Bowl in 2002 (who would you have picked instead if he didn't or which several AFC QBs were better if you claim he sucked in 2002) and pickin JPL was a good move as though it is till too early to judge most pundits judge his talent as far exceeding what would have been available this draft if we held onto the choice and them also traded up to get a QB. I like TDs draft work.

4. I give him a B overall as a GM (the GW selection almost gets me to move him to C balancing out the player excellence but I like MM and will judge this season when it is a season rather than after 3 games. When one adds in the work off the field which as brought the Bills some great partnerships and improvements to the bottom line like St. Johns Fisher and 17 of the last 18 games being shutouts despite the non-playoff finishes I think the TD will be kept on the job by Ralph for the forseeable future. The huge expansion in the calculate net worth of the Bills in his time here and the new contract extension will allow the 5 year plan to extend to a 7 or 8 year plan if necessary. I hope it doesn't but thats how I see it.

[EC-Bills]

I think the thought that TD merely did what he had to do with the Henry trade is the same incorrect notion used by folks who give him no credit for managing this team out of cap hell a year or possibly two earlier than most expected.

 

It takes two folks to make a deal and trading is tough.  On this board there were some who advocated simply cutting him (they were wrong), The Titans initially offered a 6th and dropped out (they gave up a 3rd and while this was the thing to do to try to buy low only a fool would not realize that TD needed to demand a 1st for him as part of a strategy of selling high), John Clayton (once again proved his idiocy) said TD was a greedy and missed out not taking a second day pick when it was offered (he was wrong).  Wasn't he correct not to make these moves?

 

Many would have sang his praises for making them at the time and in retrospect he would have been ahead of the game getting just about anything for this supsended player.  Folks would have sung his praises even more if he took the deal which Denny Green was offering him of Shelton givng the gap we were having at LT.

 

I just don't see how you can say it was so obvious when you list all the reasons Henry had to go and then do not give him any credit whatosever for reading the market correctly and refusing all these offers and comments which were made publicly and simply were far worse for the Bills than the first day pick TD got.

 

The same with those wo describe his cap management work as easy and forced to do. The 9ers (who overpaid the oft-injured Jennings as TD refused to do) had a significantly better record than the Bills in the 90s but are still in cap hell with their mismanged choices.  AZ is another team which appears to be dealing with their cap problems by making the interesting choices that appear to still cost them, The Bengals spent years in cap hell but it clear what having good management can do rather than if a GM does not make good choices.

 

TD's biggeest screw-up in my opinion was chooising GW as HC as much as I can tell because he feared Marvin Lewis might do the same thing to him that Cowher  did in Pitts and also passed on Fox. Both these men have had successes rebuilding squads even worse than the Bills at the time and my sense is he chose GW because he knew he could beat him.

 

He allowed GW to make series of mistakes (hiring Sheppard, replacing Sheppard with Killdrive over his choice Clements, mismanaging the D with is boy Gray and finally TD brought in his guy LeBeau who not only put in a working scheme but actually trained Gray incredibly well, allowing GW to hire his buddy Vinky and then Ruel as OL coaches when they were not up to the job.  Hiring GW and then allowing him to make a series of mistakes without correcting him is a big part in my mind of why this team lost.

 

There were other TD errors like extending HJ and JH and then cutting them and why he did not cut Bledsoe after his horrid 2003 after a great 2002 is beyond me, but overall TG has done a very good job both on the field and off the field with the Bills.

 

1. His cap management overall has been superb getting us out of cap hell quickly,

2. He has attracted some good FAs to a small market town like Buffalo including Pro Bowlers Spikes, Adams, Milloy and Vincent. Adams in particular who he got to sign for a lower amount contract with the Bills than he apparently was offered elsewhere.

3. I think he has done a very good job drafting, His worse clinker appears to be MW, but OL was such a need its hard for me to see how he could have done something else and apparently McKinnie the other choice not only held out his first year but apparently just got arrested. His selection of two Pro Bowlers and Schobel his first year was good. The read of the market in letting Peerless go and then picking McGahee who he developed his injury and cap managed well and read the draft market well enough that he figured he could Kelsay in the second was simply great work. Overall, with the draft given the nature of injuries in the NFL and clinkers like Ryan Leaf, his trading away of 1sts for value for us (we desperately needed a QB after RJ and Bledsoe like him or not made and deserved the Pro Bowl in 2002 (who would you have picked instead if he didn't or which several AFC QBs were better if you claim he sucked in 2002) and pickin JPL was a good move as though it is till too early to judge most pundits judge his talent as far exceeding what would have been available this draft if we held onto the choice and them also traded up to get a QB.  I like TDs draft work.

4. I give him a B overall as a GM (the GW selection almost gets me to move him to C balancing out the player excellence but I like MM and will judge this season when it is a season rather than after 3 games. When one adds in the work off the field which as brought the Bills some great partnerships and improvements to the bottom line like St. Johns Fisher and 17 of the last 18 games being shutouts despite the non-playoff finishes I think the TD will be kept on the job by Ralph for the forseeable future. The huge expansion in the calculate net worth of the Bills in his time here and the new contract extension will allow the 5 year plan to extend to a 7 or 8 year plan if necessary. I hope it doesn't but thats how I see it.

456250[/snapback]

 

Good post. I like your observations.

[billsburgh]

Your almost right.. he is building a playoff team.  And when the Bills make it to the playoff's you'll be singing TD's praises.. until they lose thier first playoff game.

 

I hate bandwagon fans!

456130[/snapback]

how much longer do we have to wait for this to happen because it certainly wont be this seasno?

[HtownBillsFan]

What exactly did Henry test positive for?

[smokinandjokin]

It wasn't Tom Donahoe who discovered this great idea. He had no other choice considering McGahee's performance in the previous year.

456139[/snapback]

 

But who had the balls to draft McGahee?

 

What exactly did Henry test positive for?

 

The NFL does not make this public until you fail several tests (3 or 4 I think.) I'm guessing it was weed.

[Bill from NYC]

But who had the balls to draft McGahee?

The NFL does not make this public until you fail several tests (3 or 4 I think.)  I'm guessing it was weed.

456487[/snapback]

 

The Henry trade was a literal steal, and for this TD deserves all the credit in the world.

As far as the suspension, the whole affair only speaks to the utter stupidity of this player. He just tossed away 4 games salary, and already has one bankrupcy under his belt.

Good riddance.

[DeeRay]

TD's biggeest screw-up in my opinion was chooising GW as HC

 

What really exposed Teflon Tom for what he truly is, was after 3 years of rebuilding, and in the end firing GW, instead of using a logical and conventional approach by hiring an experienced HC and moving forward, he goes ahead and hires an in experienced coach, who was about to be fired by Cowher anyway. Not only does a rookie HC have to join the team in the middle of a rebuilding program and cut his own teeth, but, in truth begin rebuilding again. In the meantime he has to live with the schmucks that Teflon Tom has brought in... ie. Bledsoe, Teague, Williams, Wire, Pucillo, Sape, Sobieski, Shaw, etc. Jury is still out on Malarkey... but one thing that seems to becoming a pattern with him is slow starts. The jury is in on Teflon though, and he has more than lived down to his reputation.

[Albany,n.y.]

I find it amazing that 1)A player who is in the program can demand a trade while he's under contract and expect the team to be able to trade him. 2) That TD was able to hold out for a 3rd for a player with 1 year left on his contract and was 1 hit of ? away from a 4 game suspension

3) That 2 teams would actually go head to head in bidding for said player 4) That the winning bidder would be stupid enough to give up the 3rd unconditionally, knowing Henry was 1 strike away from suspension.

5) Tennessee would actually extend his contract***

*** This does explain why Henry signed a contract that seemed below market (especially when compared with Jordan's Raider deal) for a player of his accomplishments.

Actually, the only one who came out of this not looking like a total idiot is Donahoe. Get on his case for other transactions, but this one was definitely a steal.

 

PS: The suspension should shut up "The Coach", who on his 1st postgame show was highly critical of TD for trading TH & leaving the Bills with Shaud Williams as their backup RB.

[JasoninMT]

Here's a partial list of Positive Player moves by TD...

 

Tag/Trade of Peerless Price.

Trade down to get Clements and Henry.

Trade Henry for a pick.

Signed Takeo Spikes as FA

Signed London Fletcher as FA

Drafted of McGahee

Traded a future #1 for Bledsoe - who later soured but gave at least 1 wonderful year which enabled getting McGahee via Price trade...

 

I think in terms of Player moves... he's done well... I know there are many other moves which are questionable - especially in terms of coaching selections...

 

What most people hate is that we get a lot of hope because if he's nothing else he's a salesman - pitching to us every year, "this is the year fans." only to be disappointed...

 

And please feel free to expand on his list of positive moves and also list the negative moves he made (which I neglected)... also, I'm talking about moves which **most** people here would agree were good or bad, not ones based on personal feelings (why I leave Flutie/RJ discussion out..)

[BuckeyeBill]

And convincing the fans that TH was worth a first rounder...  then a second rounder...  then a third rounder.

456137[/snapback]

 

Dude he was never worth a first rounder.

[John in VA Beach]

Your almost right.. he is building a playoff team.  And when the Bills make it to the playoff's you'll be singing TD's praises.. until they lose thier first playoff game.

 

I hate bandwagon fans!

456130[/snapback]

 

Unless I don't know that there is more history to that posters comments, I don't see how that can make him a bandwagon fan.

 

I've been following the team for 25 years, and this whole mess is getting pretty darn frustrating. It should be frustrating to all Bills fans. The organization needs to produce a winner on the field, not an almost, or a next year, or another rebuilding stint, a winner. I have no interst in following any other team, but I do wonder why I watch every game to get dissapointed with the product and be depressed at the start of the week.

 

About Henry, I think the only thing TD deserves credit for is his patience. That third that he held out for tied with a second could get the bills two OL players in the first round this year. Hopefully the crop is exceptional.

[BuckeyeBill]

Unless I don't know that there is more history to that posters comments, I don't see how that can make him a bandwagon fan.

456701[/snapback]

 

I'll disagree with you there John

[DeeRay]

And please feel free to expand on his list of positive moves and also list the negative moves he made (which I neglected)... also, I'm talking about moves which **most** people here would agree were good or bad, not ones based on personal feelings

 

How bout 28-39 over the last 67 contests?

 

And some posters feel we're mediocre. Sorry folks, we're just not quite there yet. He's still challenging the team to achieve adequacy.

[JasoninMT]

I'm talking about actual player moves.... Last I knew, Tom D wasn't a player on the field...

 

I'm not saying he is the best GM on the planet... But, did he miss any tackles on Sunday? I'm not even saying I'm happy with the product he's putting on the field... But you can't put 100% of the blame on him. He signs players, they are supposed to produce... if he signs bad players or coaches, that is where he fails...

 

If you want to criticize specific moves he's made, do it... call him out for his mistakes... What would you have done differently?