Peter Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Is there anyone here who seriously doubts that someone pulled strings to get GWB in the Texas National Guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Is there anyone here who seriously doubts that someone pulled strings to get GWB in the Texas National Guard? 32151[/snapback] No. Did your Dad/Uncle/Brother/Friend ever get you a job or help with admission to a school? If someone offered you a choice between being in the National Guard or getting drafted to Iraq, which would YOU choose? Welcome to the real world. The more pertinent question is, is there anyone here that seriously thinks that the country doesn't have anything better to discuss/debate that what happened in the Texas National Guard 30+ years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 No. Did your Dad/Uncle/Brother/Friend ever get you a job or help with admission to a school? If someone offered you a choice between being in the National Guard or getting drafted to Iraq, which would YOU choose? Welcome to the real world. The more pertinent question is, is there anyone here that seriously thinks that the country doesn't have anything better to discuss/debate that what happened in the Texas National Guard 30+ years ago? 32158[/snapback] Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Is there anyone here who seriously doubts that someone pulled strings to get GWB in the Texas National Guard? 32151[/snapback] You may as well also ask the question "is there anyone here who doubts that they've had someone pull strings for THEMSELVES." I've had strings pulled for me, and I've pulled strings for people. It's the way life goes. Why this is relevant after all this time is beyond my ability to comprehend. But let's be straight about one thing. I don't care if strings were pulled. If Kerry hadn't hitched his wagon to his four months in Vietnam, we wouldn't be having this hypothetical discussion. And the American Idol crowd won't care either, Pete, because they've seen Bush react in war time. They haven't seen Kerry react. THAT is why this discussion is so fuggin' stupid. Because the very people you need to have this discussion with really, really, really don't care. And pointing this stuff out won't change their mind come November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F. Kerry Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 ENOUGH ALREADY!! Who the hell cares. I spent a lot of my campaign talking about this stuff, and where did it get me? I am slipping in the polls, I am losing support of my base, and Democrats are coming out and blasting me saying that I need to stop talking about Vietnam. I am constantly changing my campaign personnel, in order to stop the hemmoraging. It is obvious that the American people are tired of this crap and want to hear about the other things effecting our country, but people like you still want to try to make this an issue. Here is a thought: STOP IT. It is doing nothing but help Bush get re-elected. Why the hell are my supporters so blind to that fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 No doubt what so ever. Just like Gore got special treatment as well as special treatment to run for congress. Just like Kerry got special privledges in getting out of the service early. Just like Bush used to get into Yale. Just like Kerry used his Grandparents to go to elite private schools and college. Wow, happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 There is no question that people (who can) have strings pulled for them. It goes without saying. That is why it is so humorous that GWB keeps on denying it. What is not so humorous is that these chickenhawks who were so successful in purposely avoiding hostile gunfire (GWB, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith et al) could so easily send other people's kids to die. That is why it is relevant to what is happening today. That is also why the professional military is usually more circumspect about war than these guys who like to talk a big game. The chickenhawks also should have listened to the professional military with respect to what they recommended to get the job done rather than play politics in the face of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 You know it's quite possible he didn't know strings were being pulled. He may have submitted his package, and left it at that. Someone behind the scenes, friend of the family may have pulled strings under the cover. I know my current company we have hired a couple of family members of senior staff. We typically get a message, "Such and such is interviewing with you this afternoon. He is the VP nephew, and it would be great if he was given ever consideration. If you choose not to hire him, I would like a justification as to why not, so that we can correct the situation". I know we have hired one of the VP sons on my project under these circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 You know it's quite possible he didn't know strings were being pulled. He may have submitted his package, and left it at that. Someone behind the scenes, friend of the family may have pulled strings under the cover. I know my current company we have hired a couple of family members of senior staff. We typically get a message, "Such and such is interviewing with you this afternoon. He is the VP nephew, and it would be great if he was given ever consideration. If you choose not to hire him, I would like a justification as to why not, so that we can correct the situation". I know we have hired one of the VP sons on my project under these circumstances. 32221[/snapback] You mean 22 year old kids don't know how the world works. There's news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 My father got into the Marine Reserves, and two of my uncles into the Guard, to avoid going to Vietnam. Bush Sr. must have pulled strings for them, I guess. How else could it have happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 My father got into the Marine Reserves, and two of my uncles into the Guard, to avoid going to Vietnam. Bush Sr. must have pulled strings for them, I guess. How else could it have happened? 32237[/snapback] Did they jump over a waiting list of people?!? If you seriously believe that strings were not pulled for GWB . . . you are pretty gullable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Did they jump over a waiting list of people?!? If you seriously believe that strings were not pulled for GWB . . . you are pretty gullable. 32250[/snapback] I don't know. I've never looked into it...because I accept that joining the Guard or Reserves was a common dodge for Vietnam service in that day and age, so when I find out that someone did so, I don't feel compelled to waste my time picking at it. And it's not about what I believe...I just don't !@#$ing care. I've got better things to do than obsess about a hypothetical phone call that Daddy Bush made to some unnamed recipient thirty years ago. And I don't hear you complaining about Chelsea Clinton getting into Stanford, or Vanessa Kerry into Harvard Medical School...I'm sure no strings were pulled in those cases, either. Only the Bush clan does that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F. Kerry Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 And I don't hear you complaining about Chelsea Clinton getting into Stanford, or Vanessa Kerry into Harvard Medical School...I'm sure no strings were pulled in those cases, either. Only the Bush clan does that... 32261[/snapback] Nothing to see here. Move along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 I don't know. I've never looked into it...because I accept that joining the Guard or Reserves was a common dodge for Vietnam service in that day and age, so when I find out that someone did so, I don't feel compelled to waste my time picking at it. And it's not about what I believe...I just don't !@#$ing care. I've got better things to do than obsess about a hypothetical phone call that Daddy Bush made to some unnamed recipient thirty years ago. And I don't hear you complaining about Chelsea Clinton getting into Stanford, or Vanessa Kerry into Harvard Medical School...I'm sure no strings were pulled in those cases, either. Only the Bush clan does that... 32261[/snapback] Strings were pulled for ALL of them. No question. In fact, I am sure that strings were pulled by my Dad to get me some jobs when I was a kid. No question. What troubles me is that someone who went so far out of his way to avoid hostile gunfire thinks of himself as a warrior and finds it so easy to send other people to die for a war that has been dressed up as a war in response to 9/11 but is really meant to accomplish pre-9/11 goals of certain chickenhawks in the administration. By the way, I always found it humorous (and sad) that Bill Clinton always seemed to have our military bomb someone whenever he seemed to get in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 What troubles me is that someone who went so far out of his way to avoid hostile gunfire thinks of himself as a warrior and finds it so easy to send other people to die for a war that has been dressed up as a war in response to 9/11 but is really meant to accomplish pre-9/11 goals of certain chickenhawks in the administration. 32275[/snapback] Therein lies the BIGGEST problem I have with this lahjik. Someone else pulled the strings...so it's his fault? If you really believe in and care enough about strings being pulled, put the blame where it rightfully belongs...Daddy and Granddaddy. And, while you're at it, admit that it's possible it wasn't an overt act. It could be enough that someone saw "George Bush Sr" on a piece of paper somewhere and said "This guy's father was a war hero in WWII, fast-track this guy." I wouldn't be surprised if that's as common as the overt act of saying "You WILL do this for my kid, because I'm important and powerful." Name recognition counts for A LOT, more that most people are willing to admit. If George W. Bush didn't have the same name as a former president eight years removed, he never gets elected... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I work with someone who has a couple of boys. One wanted to go to one of the academies. The father knew that I have had a few drink with Colonel Fox, a Medal of Honor awardee. Asked me if I would get a hold of him to write a letter of recommendation for his son. I passed, one since I haven't seen Fox in 15+ years. Two I am sure he gets all kinds of requests, and three I knew the kid. Good hearted kid, but not overly committed. Well good thing, kid dropped out of college his first year. Just because you have a friend of a friend doesn't mean anything. People will try anything they can to get ahead or get their kid ahead. BTW, if you didn't know, a medal of honor can recommend one child into an academy a year, free and clear, no second letter required. I am actually saving the Fox source in case I ever need one for my daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 Therein lies the BIGGEST problem I have with this lahjik. Someone else pulled the strings...so it's his fault? If you really believe in and care enough about strings being pulled, put the blame where it rightfully belongs...Daddy and Granddaddy. And, while you're at it, admit that it's possible it wasn't an overt act. It could be enough that someone saw "George Bush Sr" on a piece of paper somewhere and said "This guy's father was a war hero in WWII, fast-track this guy." I wouldn't be surprised if that's as common as the overt act of saying "You WILL do this for my kid, because I'm important and powerful." Name recognition counts for A LOT, more that most people are willing to admit. If George W. Bush didn't have the same name as a former president eight years removed, he never gets elected... 32287[/snapback] I know that you are not that naive. GWB should just acknowledge what happened and move on. Certainly, GWB is not so naive to think that strings were not pulled for him. I don't mind so much that George Sr. did what he could to protect his son. It is the hypocrisy of the son that bothers me. It is kind of like Hillary and Bill calling the 1980's the "decade of greed" while Hillary was making 100k in cattle futures. Some of you guys will defend GWB regardless of what he did or does. Fine. Whatever. The next time he thinks about sending someone else's kids to die or about putting on his flight suit to parade around like a rooster, he should think back about what happened to him. Perhaps, he will become more circumspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F. Kerry Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 The next time he thinks about sending someone else's kids to die or about putting on his flight suit to parade around like a rooster, he should think back about what happened to him. 32309[/snapback] Tenny, is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 The next time he thinks about sending someone else's kids to die or about putting on his flight suit to parade around like a rooster, he should think back about what happened to him. 32309[/snapback] Has it ever occurred to you or any of the other sheeple that harp on this that he wore the flight suit because he was flying in a jet???? It was an S-3 ASW patrol plane, not a passenger plane. The stewardess doesn't just show you to your seat and serve you a martini. You sit down at one of four crew positions, and strap into an ejection seat. You can't safely fly in one without wearing a flight suit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Has it ever occurred to you or any of the other sheeple that harp on this that he wore the flight suit because he was flying in a jet???? It was an S-3 ASW patrol plane, not a passenger plane. The stewardess doesn't just show you to your seat and serve you a martini. You sit down at one of four crew positions, and strap into an ejection seat. You can't safely fly in one without wearing a flight suit... 32440[/snapback] You may not have noticed but "big picture" and Pete haven't been introduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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