34-78-83 Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 I'm opinionated because I said something that wasn't completely complimentary about Willis McGahee? I'll stand by what I've said, I've always thought that. This is precisely what a forum is for, if everyone just stood by as a cheerleader it would make for very boring discussion. Willis will never be a top flight back hesitating and juking around trying to find holes, that's my opinion and I'll stand by it. 448771[/snapback] ... and that's a fine opinion to have and express, but it was your initial condemnation of "you guys", which I interpret as "everyone on the board who isn't you" that likely stirred up the reaction. (IMHO)
bbills17 Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 I was referring to the 20 posts in two years. I also think WM's been juking too much this year. But to say he's done it his whole career as a Bill is ludicrous. 448774[/snapback] I've seen that kind of running from him often, and I've never seen burst like the two backs I mentioned. They also hit the hole hard every time.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 If you have a tape of the Houston game check out Willis before and after the TD to Peters. After they reviewed the run by Willis to see if it was a TD or not Willis looks over to the bench and gives a signal that looks to me as if he's saying give it to me again and I'll make it. So after JP throws it to Peters (which unlike the Tampa game was a good call) the offense is coming off the field and MM has a big smile on his face and he's trying to shake everyone's hand...Shelton shakes his hand, JP, Trey Teague, he puts his hand out to Willis and says something to him and Willis just ignores him altogether. He was pissed because he didn't get the ball. Now you can say he was pissed because the review didn't give him the TD (Rightly so) but then why would he be pissed at MM? My point is uh I forgot. No, really is this guy going to be a team player or not? I saw him put some pathetic looking blocks on Tampa and he needs to get threw that hole a lot quicker. He has a lot of talent I hope he uses it wisely because MM is not the type of coach to put up with that type of thing. 448580[/snapback] What you saw regarding the actions taken is one thing but why a player took those actions is something else. The reasons you desribe as WM's motivations may be true but they could also easily be all wrong. Even if you are correct that he wss pissed, who he was pissed at and why are also pretty much guesses. In addition, as someone pointed out above, even if you are correct that he was pissed (maybe or maybe not), you are correct about what he was pissed about (maybe or maybe not- maybe he was pissed at the ref who stepped on his hand when they unpiled the last play and he was signaling to the sideline his hand was fine, but if flared up during the TD and was so bad he could not even shake hands or high-five when he came off the field- I doubt this fantasy but I doubt your fantasy explanation as well), it is a flight of fancy to think that him being pissed at ths play says anything about his general attitude or will be translated to other plays. I think you were correct in what you saw (though even what we see is in some dobut because we cannot hear what is said or did not see the context that led up to it os even doubt that which one sees) but I think the conclusions you draw may be true in some ways but are probably incorrect.
Sound_n_Fury Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 Watch other young backs like Julius Jones or Kevin Jones hit the hole, and also look at their YPC. 448741[/snapback] OK. In 2004, Willis averaged 4.0 ypc vs. 4.2 for Julius Jones and 4.7 for Kevin Jones: http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/RYDS/2004/regular By your ypc measure, does that make Willis better than Tomlinson (3.9 yards) or Portis (3.8)?
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 Wouldn't it suck to be an NFL player in an FFL and see yourself go undrafted? 448755[/snapback] I had friends doing their fantasy draft at a local bar here in Pittsburgh--and Duce Staley was at the table next to them. I guess it was clear to all around (including Duce and his woman) that they were doing their draft. Duce hung around for a while, but I guess left (supposedly disappointed, according to the friend's version) after the 6th round when he overheard still hadn't been drafted.
Simon Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 What Willis McGahee have you been watching? He's been running like that the entire time he's been a Bill. He rarely ever hits the hole hard, it's always this bob and weave..... I don't think this guy is a troll at all as trolls usually average more than one post/month. In fact I happen to completely agree with him. Willis has always spent a lot of time behind the LOS, showing a ton of patience/hesitation picking his lane. I remember commenting on it several times last year and this year it appears to be no different. He does show very good power both inside and out when he does take it upfield, but I don't think there's much arguing against the fact that he's a lot slower than most other backs to commit to a hole.
krazykat Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 (that, or he has himself on his own fantasy team and wanted the six points ) 448583[/snapback] LMAO Mularkey must have Peters on his fantasy team.
plenzmd1 Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 Haven't seen a good Willis stiff arm yet. Can still see`that one from the Miami game last year in my minds eye. I think Willis was pissed because he didn't start Peters on his FF team that day. IMHO that is. Not to be too technical, but do you think players could have a fantasy team. I would think it was a form of gambling on the games, and get ya kicked out of the league. Could you just see TKO having Vick as his starting QB this week?
LongLiveRalph Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 I have seen Willis do some behind-the-line dancing. It's fine if he's trying to find holes and run where the play is designed. However, it seems that when it's not working in the 1st quarter, he continues with the same style all game, and he finishes with 15 rushes for 42 yds. It would be nice to see him say "Screw this, I'm 235 lbs, I'm just going to mash into a crease." A much smaller Cadillac proved that running hard and pumping your feet in a tight space can make the 4-yard runs just as valuable as the 30-yard runs. That said, Willis' 8 100-yard games in 13 starts is not something a slow white guy like me should be criticizing.
wnyguy Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 I'd be happy if he could just bust one run, see if his speed is there or not.
jester43 Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 What Willis McGahee have you been watching? He's been running like that the entire time he's been a Bill. He rarely ever hits the hole hard, it's always this bob and weave 'I think I'm Marshall Faulk' move. Watch other young backs like Julius Jones or Kevin Jones hit the hole, and also look at their YPC. You guys have overrated Willis since Day 1, he doesn't have the burst he once had (apparantly), and likely never will. You keep making excuses for him, claiming he has no holes, watch the two aforementioned RBs, they MAKE their own holes on many plays when there is nowhere to run. 448741[/snapback] willis hit the hole hard on every play when he was trying to take henry's job. but as he has become more comfortable being the starter, he's tried to dance more and more.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 I don't think this guy is a troll at all as trolls usually average more than one post/month. In fact I happen to completely agree with him. Willis has always spent a lot of time behind the LOS, showing a ton of patience/hesitation picking his lane. I remember commenting on it several times last year and this year it appears to be no different. He does show very good power both inside and out when he does take it upfield, but I don't think there's much arguing against the fact that he's a lot slower than most other backs to commit to a hole. 448881[/snapback] The difference is whether or not his "slowness" is a criticism of his style and ability or an observation of his style. I agree. He always has run like that. I also think that if he ran hard and hit the hole against the Bucs he would have had 30 more yards and the score would have been exactly the same. I also think that he saw we were going nowhere on offense, the holes weren't opening for him, JP was struggling, and the Bucs had our number, and he was trying to make a breakaway play to turn the momentum. That may or may not have been a wise move and good strategy. MM didn't think so. I am not quite so sure. if he did manage to get away from one of those guys and break one, it could have indeed turned the game around. He didn't, and ultimately he had as poor a game as most everyone else. But I don't think it is a need to worry and I do think he's fine the way he is. People expect players to always make the right decision, which is nuts. They love McGahee's style when it works and criticize it when it fails. That's fine to criticize the results, IMO, and he had a terrible game. It seems foolish to criticize his style when it was the very thing that made him great and a #1 pick and one of the best young backs in the league.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 willis hit the hole hard on every play when he was trying to take henry's job. but as he has become more comfortable being the starter, he's tried to dance more and more. 449217[/snapback] Nonsense. He tried to dance a lot more in the Buc game. He never hit the hole hard unless there was a hole. He's a patient, deliberate back. Some guys hit the hole hard every play and it works for them. Willis is not that kind of back and his style works for him. It didn't against the Bucs, and he danced more than usual. But there was not one play when there was a hole and his dancing stopped him from getting a first down. The only thing it did was get him a 1 yard loss instead of a 1 yard gain.
stuckincincy Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 Nonsense. He tried to dance a lot more in the Buc game. He never hit the hole hard unless there was a hole. He's a patient, deliberate back. Some guys hit the hole hard every play and it works for them. Willis is not that kind of back and his style works for him. It didn't against the Bucs, and he danced more than usual. But there was not one play when there was a hole and his dancing stopped him from getting a first down. The only thing it did was get him a 1 yard loss instead of a 1 yard gain. 449238[/snapback] IIRC, his college scouting reports said just that.
Sound_n_Fury Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 I don't think this guy is a troll at all as trolls usually average more than one post/month. In fact I happen to completely agree with him. Willis has always spent a lot of time behind the LOS, showing a ton of patience/hesitation picking his lane. I remember commenting on it several times last year and this year it appears to be no different. He does show very good power both inside and out when he does take it upfield, but I don't think there's much arguing against the fact that he's a lot slower than most other backs to commit to a hole. 448881[/snapback] How about the rest of his statement: "You guys have overrated Willis since Day 1, he doesn't have the burst he once had (apparantly), and likely never will. You keep making excuses for him, claiming he has no holes" Willis has been patient, but more along the lines of stringing the play out then hitting the cutback against the gain. Haven't seen as much of that yet, but obviously 40+ carries is way to low to form a judgement on.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 willis hit the hole hard on every play when he was trying to take henry's job. but as he has become more comfortable being the starter, he's tried to dance more and more. 449217[/snapback] My recollection of WM last year disagrees with this view and agrees more with what i think Simon is saying above that rather than immediately hitting the hole hard, i was surprised and impressed last year that WM really seemed to take his time and was effective picking the good hole as it developed and then turning on the after burners. I generally have been a part of the observer school which saw the success of RBs who hit the hole quick and picked up yards, but one of the things which I certainly took great note of last year was how successful WM was by being patient and reading his blocks by hitting the hole more slowly than the norm.
Billsgirl Posted September 21, 2005 Posted September 21, 2005 To steer this back on topic... I'd have to say that WM pouting isn't necessarily a bad thing... shows he's competitive and wants the ball. If I were him and I missed a touch down, I'd want the chance to do it again. Instead it goes to Peters from an inexperienced quarterback... he could have taken that as an insult almost... as if that was a safer bet than him. Either way, I don't think his pouting is anything to worry about. I would like to see less of WM's tap dancing though, and more running. I was always amazed when he'd crash into a big group of people and pop out the other side. That's been lacking a bit so far this season, preseason and regular.
seq004 Posted September 23, 2005 Author Posted September 23, 2005 What you saw regarding the actions taken is one thing but why a player took those actions is something else. The reasons you desribe as WM's motivations may be true but they could also easily be all wrong. Even if you are correct that he wss pissed, who he was pissed at and why are also pretty much guesses. In addition, as someone pointed out above, even if you are correct that he was pissed (maybe or maybe not), you are correct about what he was pissed about (maybe or maybe not- maybe he was pissed at the ref who stepped on his hand when they unpiled the last play and he was signaling to the sideline his hand was fine, but if flared up during the TD and was so bad he could not even shake hands or high-five when he came off the field- I doubt this fantasy but I doubt your fantasy explanation as well), it is a flight of fancy to think that him being pissed at ths play says anything about his general attitude or will be translated to other plays. I think you were correct in what you saw (though even what we see is in some dobut because we cannot hear what is said or did not see the context that led up to it os even doubt that which one sees) but I think the conclusions you draw may be true in some ways but are probably incorrect. 448779[/snapback] With all due respect I think your version was thought of on fantasy island with that little guy and zee plane zee plane and my version highly more likely especially after the whats happened the last couple days. No, I doubt have the audio but I know which one I'd put my money on
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