If blaming 1 player for the safety, it would be...

[LabattBlue]

Shelton's blocking has been suspect in general, as a lead blocker for WM rushing and for protecting the QB.

 

How could you watch it twice, ONCE made me ill. 

446037[/snapback]

I brought this up in the preseason and if I can bring myself to it, would like to watch the tape of the game and focus on Shelton.

[nick in* england]

I brought this up in the preseason and if I can bring myself to it, would like to watch the tape of the game and focus on Shelton.

446190[/snapback]

Shelton is a cause for concern - he wasn't great against the Texans either...

[dave mcbride]

Willis McGahee.

 

If even an eggplant like Travis Henry can learn and improve on blitz pick-up (he was never great at it, but early in his career he was so bad that his miss led to a sack of none other than Doug Flutie who had come into replace RJ after one of his many injuries, but he did improve this facet of his game such that it was not an issue of complaint against him by even those who hated Henry until late in his career when some folks were simply shopping for reasons why he should be cut rather than simply wait and trade him for value as TD did.

 

445858[/snapback]

 

doug flutie, whose final year with the bills was 2000, never played with travis henry, whose first season was 2001.

[ChasBB]

What the point in deriding McGahee? So, he's not perfect -- he's got some maturing to do. As I recall, we signed him to run anyhow. You can't take one play and lay the whole game on it. Lots of things didn't go well. McGahee will learn from his mistakes and so will the others. This team is still developing its confidence. They need to be less timid on offense and not let the opponent dictate what they do on offense.

[Campy]

doug flutie, whose final year with the bills was 2000, never played with travis henry, whose first season was 2001.

446215[/snapback]

Yup - Bryson, Linton, & Sammy Morris were our RBs in 2000 if memory serves.

[MRW]

What the point in deriding McGahee?  So, he's not perfect -- he's got some maturing to do.  As I recall, we signed him to run anyhow.  You can't take one play and lay the whole game on it.  Lots of things didn't go well.  McGahee will learn from his mistakes and so will the others.  This team is still developing its confidence.  They need to be less timid on offense and not let the opponent dictate what they do on offense.

446362[/snapback]

There's more to playing RB than just running.

[Ramius]

Is my memory off?

 

What is it with Tampa and safeties with the Bills?

 

The Bills have been on the receiving end more while in Tampa.

 

I am pretty sure I remember there was a Bruce Smith safey years ago at the "Big Sombraro" during the regular season in the early '90's.

 

Then there was one obvioulsy during SB XXV.

 

I think the Bills got another one last time they were in Tampa?  Not sure???

 

Now at Raymond James Stadium... Except the Bucs bagged one.

 

Anyway you slice... The Bills come up on the losing end of the game .

 

Who was the poster that suggested prior to the game that there was gonna be a safety?

 

He/she was on the right tack!

 

445872[/snapback]

 

Back when we played the Buccs in either 88 or 89, we lost to them 10-5...another safety

[Carmel Corn]

FFS watch the play again.  Willis did block and picked up the inside rusher.  Shelton went into a pattern, leaving the other rusher unblocked.  If anything on that play, Shelton should have recognized and picked up the other blitzer.  Not Mcgahee.  While Mcgahee did whiff on a a couple block and lot get clean blocks he sure the hell at least chip on every guy he was supposed to have.  Rewatch the game.  I have now seen it twice. 

 

And anyone saying we should have kept Henry over Willis is on some major Koolaid.

445939[/snapback]

 

Agreed....Willis didn't exactly pancake the guy, but he was able to chip him inside enough while Losman moved to the right. It looked like one or possibly two other defenders where the ones who were closest to JP when he stepped out.

[Peter]

As I recall, Willis went after the inside guy as he is supposed to do.

 

It was one of the outside guys who came in unblocked who put the pressure on JP. In these situations, the QB is responsible for getting rid of the ball. He did not.

 

You will recall another play during the preseason when JP mistakenly scrambled back into the end zone. Granted it was a different type of play, but I had hoped that he would have gotten that out of his system.

[Dan III]

As I recall, Willis went after the inside guy as he is supposed to do.

 

It was one of the outside guys who came in unblocked who put the pressure on JP.  In these situations, the QB is responsible for getting rid of the ball.  He did not.

446478[/snapback]

Willis went after the right guy but he got beat to the inside. Willis's job is to push the blitzer to the outside and let JP step up in the pocket.

[Peter]

Willis went after the right guy but he got beat to the inside. Willis's job is to push the blitzer to the outside and let JP step up in the pocket. 

446485[/snapback]

 

His guy was not the guy who forced the safety. It was not his best block, but it did not cause the end result.

 

I am going to take another look at it when they show the short cut version.

[Dan III]

His guy was not the guy who forced the safety.  It was not his best block, but it did not cause the end result.

446492[/snapback]

Without a pocket to step up into, JP drifted to the right.. right into the path of the LB.

[Peter]

Without a pocket to step up into, JP drifted to the right.. right into the path of the LB.

446509[/snapback]

 

How many yards beyond our line of scrimmage do you think that guy was before JP started drifting?

[Peter]

Without a pocket to step up into, JP drifted to the right.. right into the path of the LB.

446509[/snapback]

 

When you say "drifting," were you referring to his mind or his legs?

[Dan III]

When you say "drifting," were you referring to his mind or his legs? 

446530[/snapback]

 

I understand your point, JP was the one holding the ball, he should have thrown it away. I think Willis's mistake shouldn't be just forgotten. Willis's only job on that play is to not get beat inside and he failed miserably.

[Peter]

 

I understand your point, JP was the one holding the ball, he should have thrown it away. I think Willis's mistake shouldn't be just forgotten. Willis's only job on that play is to not get beat inside and he failed miserably.

446552[/snapback]

 

You are correct that it was not one of his better blocks. He typically is much better when he is picking up blitzes.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

You are correct that it was not one of his better blocks. He typically is much better when he is picking up blitzes.

446581[/snapback]

 

However, I think I made my own knee jerk harsh judgment of the safety block which may or may not have been WM's responsibility after watching the RB (whose number I could not see but I assume was WM) blow the blitz pick-up on the TB ruaher who bliocked the JP pass on 1st down.

 

Againing assuming that the deep back in this set who missed the pick-up was WM the second block was not as bad as the first so for these plays it is hard for one to claim he is usually good and occaisionally bad. Both blocks were ineffective and the first simply sucked.

[Greybeard]

However, I think I made my own knee jerk harsh judgment of the safety block which may or may not have been WM's responsibility after watching the RB (whose number I could not see but I assume was WM) blow the blitz pick-up on the TB ruaher who bliocked the JP pass on 1st down.

 

Againing assuming that the deep back in this set who missed the pick-up was WM the second block was not as bad as the first so for these plays it is hard for one to claim he is usually good and occaisionally bad. Both blocks were ineffective and the first simply sucked.

446719[/snapback]

 

I tried to watch the 1st down play. The running back that is deep goes to cut block the pass rusher. The line blocks the view so you cannot see exactly what is happening. Looks like he rolls on the rushers feet but not enough to stop him from jumping.

 

I believe it is McGahee but I never did see his number clearly.

[BuffalOhio]

Willis McGahee.

 

First, I do not think one player is at fault for multiple breakdowns which start with some questionable play calling in this danger zone in a tight game on the road.  I goes from there to some blocking failures against a blitzing Bucs D which smelled blood, some inaccurate passing by JP and losing the field position battle here so more than one player is actually to blame.

 

Second, who of importance cares who I blame anyway so like the rest of us fans this is simply my rant.

 

However, WM bears some special attention which I have not seen or hear mentioned to this point because of two incredibly ineffective efforts on his part at blitz pick-up.

 

TC called a pass on 1st down from the 1 yard line or so (a questionable call which if it works TC is brilliant but it didn't so in hindsight he did the wrong thing).  A TB DL player rushed and the OL only delayed him a little (either a player whiffed for the most part or even worse the plan was to chip him a bit which was done either inadvetently or by plan) and the RB (WM I presime but I couldn't make out the number neither effectively engaged the rusher preventing a leap or simply cut him down.  This rusher stuck his hands up an tipped the JP pass which fortunately fell to the ground rather than being intercepted.

 

The second missed blitz pick-up was when the an entire side of the TB D came in on the rush on 3rd down and JP neither picked up the blitz and threw to a hot receiver or threw it away immediately, but WM simply whiffed on an effort to stop the rusher and JP was forced out of the back of the endzone for a safety.

 

While no one can be singled out for the blame since multiple players and the coaches all were to blame for some failure. I think WM gets special note for likely failing to do his job two times.

 

Like most rookies he needs some work on blitz pick-up so we have no choice really but to play him and hope his failings are not as fatal as yesterday.

 

If even an eggplant like Travis Henry can learn and improve on blitz pick-up (he was never great at it, but early in his career he was so bad that his miss led to a sack of none other than Doug Flutie who had come into replace RJ after one of his many injuries, but he did improve this facet of his game such that it was not an issue of complaint against him by even those who hated Henry until late in his career when some folks were simply shopping for reasons why he should be cut rather than simply wait and trade him for value as TD did.

 

These same posters foolishly tried to claim that the Bills improved as soon as WM took the field and WM being great at blitz pick-up while TH sucked was a big part of the reason why.

 

The facts seem to be that yes the Bills improved big time but actually it took several games for WM to gain full confidence in the knee and once he did we improved in significant part because of his outside speed, his powerful stiff arm and him simply being a better runner than TH. WM being good at blitz pick-up had little to do with it and we saw on the plays that led to the safety this young player still needs a lot of work in this facet of his game.

445858[/snapback]

 

Take another look F-F-S. On that play, two players blitzed, and Willis took the inside blitzer and controlled him. The outside player came right at JP. Tough to block two guys that are separated by 5 feet.

 

I believe in the past, you've indicated the correct pickup for the RB in that situation is the inside blitzer, and if that's the case, the WM did his job.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Take another look F-F-S.  On that play, two players blitzed, and Willis took the inside blitzer and controlled him.  The outside player came right at JP.  Tough to block two guys that are separated by 5 feet. 

 

I believe in the past, you've indicated the correct pickup for the RB in that situation is the inside blitzer, and if that's the case, the WM did his job.

446779[/snapback]

I plan to review it again tonight, but based on what folks are saying in this thread the actually block by WM on the safety was a not stellar but not unreasonable block on the a guy when there were two guys coming so JPs fate was sealed.

 

It sounds like it would be hard to indict WM for a missed block on the safety itself. However, i do explain that the reason I tended to judge him pretty harshly is that the RB did not perform an effective blitz pick-up on the first down pass play in this series.

 

This RB (likely WM unless Shaud Williams was in on 1st down for some reason) failed to engage the rusher effectively at all or cut him and blocked JPs pass and set in motion the events which led to the safety.

 

As it says in the original post:

 

1. It is foolish to attempt to blame one person for the multiple failures in play calling, passing and blocking which led to this play, my main point is that a person who deserves his fair share of blame on this series for bad perfomance is WM. It would be fooish to place all the blame on him because even we fans are not called upon to assess blame on 1 and only 1 person for the team's failings (we've seen this non-football tomfoolery more than once for exanoke as some have tried to blame Bledsoe and him alone for our failures last season or even in the Pitts game. the team wins and the team loses in the end.

 

2. WM's primary and real job for the Bills is to run the ball. It is an assessment of his effectiveness at this that is the key for assesing what should be done with him and the zone blitz stuff is french pastry.

 

3. The real indictment here is actually to those posters who is the past declared WM a great blitz pick-up talent and claimed that his far better capability than Henry at doing this was the main reason for our reduction in sacks last year. These plays show that WM like most young players still struggles at times making effective blitz pick0ups and should and will get the time to learn this portion of the game. In addition to improvinng on his gosh awful run production uesterday blitz pick-up is a facet of his game which needs a lot of work.