Federal Response - TV versus Reality

[1billsfan]

What insult?  I samply stated four facts: 1) he's worked the problem, 2) you've admitted you're ignorant on the topic, 3) you've accused everyone else of being ignorant, and 4) spouting off in your admitted ignorance is not doing you justice. 

 

And to reiterate #4: you really need to just shut up.  Now you've said you're not "denegrading" [sic] his knowledge...but you keep saying that you know better than him. 

 

BTW, if France sufferred a comparable disaster, their response time would be, roughly, never.  It would destroy a good chunk of their entire country; they'd have nothing left to respond with.

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Sorry to do this to you, but only immature and insecure people tell other people to shut up. Crap meet ignore button.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Sorry to do this to you, but only immature and insecure people tell other people to shut up. Crap meet ignore button.

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Not other people. Just you. And not because you have nothing to say, but because you REALLY need to stop digging that hole you're in.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

No sir. You don't haven't clue about how these apologies are sounding to the rest of the country. In a word...weak. 4-5 days is what I would expect it would take if this were some country like France, but this is the United States of America. Maybe I have more faith in the capabilities of our forces than ya'll do. If it takes 4-5 days to rescue the people in New Orleans from Katrina then there's something wrong with our leaders, our preparedness or both. It's not good enough. Maybe some of you are ok with this "can't do" mentality, but I believe we can and will do better next time. Eventually we'll get answers to the specifics of what happened. Until then I will choose to believe that our forces have the capability to save fellow Americans in much more rapid fashion than 4-5 days.

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You admit to having NO knowledge of military operations, yes?

 

Let me enlighten you as a veteran. I served in the 1/41st FA Bn, 24th Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, GA from 1992-1995. In my time in the 1/41, we were deployed to the Middle East....Kuwait to be specific. Bear in mind that in Kuwait there was PREPOSITIONED equipment that was being fully maintained by civilian contractors and just WAITING for soldiers to arrive.

 

It took the roughly 1000 men of my battalion 48 hours just to be ready to go and get on to the plane to take us to Kuwait. It then took us 14 hours of flight time for a total of roughly 61 hours from the time the call-up was ordered till the time we set foot in Kuwait. Upon arrival, we had to go to the motor pool and claim our vehicles, a proposition which took another 24 hours minimum. Keeping track? That's 85 hours so far.

 

Then, once we had our vehicles, the commanders from the division took another 24 hours or so to formulate a plan of deployment. Yes, francis, that's 105 hours or so, or more than FOUR FRICKING DAYS to deploy a battle-ready Artillery battalion of the REGULAR, FULL-TIME ARMY.

 

Now, let's have a look-see at the difficulties of calling up National Guardsmen. First, you have to FIND them. See, they have lives and families. When not on their one weekend, they do things. So it becomes a matter of rounding everybody up. Let's be generous and say it takes 24 hours to do this. Then once you do, you have to pack everything up and get on the road. Packing + travel time? Another 16-24 hours.

 

So let's add it all up, shall we? 105+48=153 hours or more than SIX DAYS.

 

So I guess that number's not so off the wall, is it?

 

EDIT: Note to those fratically googling the unit designation: The 24th ID is no more. It's been replaced at Ft. Stewart by the 3rd ID, formerly stationed in Germany. The batallion is still there, apparently the "rear detachment" has a website at: 1/41 FA Bn "Glory's Guns"..

[1billsfan]

You admit to having NO knowledge of military operations, yes?

 

Let me enlighten you as a veteran. I served in the 1/41st FA Bn, 24th Infantry Division, Fort Stewart, GA from 1992-1995. In my time in the 1/41, we were deployed to the Middle East....Kuwait to be specific. Bear in mind that in Kuwait there was PREPOSITIONED equipment that was being fully maintained by civilian contractors and just WAITING for soldiers to arrive.

 

It took the roughly 1000 men of my battalion 48 hours just to be ready to go and get on to the plane to take us to Kuwait. It then took us 14 hours of flight time for a total of roughly 61 hours from the time the call-up was ordered till the time we set foot in Kuwait. Upon arrival, we had to go to the motor pool and claim our vehicles, a proposition which took another 24 hours minimum. Keeping track? That's 85 hours so far.

 

Then, once we had our vehicles, the commanders from the division took another 24 hours or so to formulate a plan of deployment. Yes, francis, that's 105 hours or so, or more than FOUR FRICKING DAYS to deploy a battle-ready Artillery battalion of the REGULAR, FULL-TIME ARMY.

 

Now, let's have a look-see at the difficulties of calling up National Guardsmen. First, you have to FIND them. See, they have lives and families. When not on their one weekend, they do things. So it becomes a matter of rounding everybody up. Let's be generous and say it takes 24 hours to do this. Then once you do, you have to pack everything up and get on the road. Packing + travel time? Another 16-24 hours.

 

So let's add it all up, shall we? 105+48=153 hours or  more than SIX DAYS.

 

So I guess that number's not so off the wall, is it?

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I respect your opinion, but six days for the calvalry to come when we are in the year 2005 is just plain amazing to me. I somehow don't think it would have taken six days if Palm Beach Florida were submerged.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I respect your opinion, but six days for the calvalry to come when we are in the year 2005 is just plain amazing to me. I somehow don't think it would have taken six days if Palm Beach Florida were submerged.

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I just gave yuo a CONCRETE timeline of a "hurried up" military deployment.

 

That is as fast as the military can move....believe me.

[GG]

I don't know. Tom Hanks stormed Omaha Beach in less than 25 minutes.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I respect your opinion, but six days for the calvalry to come when we are in the year 2005 is just plain amazing to me. I somehow don't think it would have taken six days if Palm Beach Florida were submerged.

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It's not an opinion; he just quoted the actual timeline for an actual deployment. I believe that's called a "fact".

[1billsfan]

I just gave yuo a CONCRETE timeline of a "hurried up" military deployment.

 

That is as fast as the military can move....believe me.

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You I believe. Some of the others around here, maybe not so much.

[GG]

You I believe. Some of the others around here, maybe not so much.

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How does that change the probable timeline for a peacetime deployment of 40,000 National Guard troops?

[Ghost of BiB]

There are simply thousands of moving parts to all this. I hate to take it in any one direction, but the simple matter is that unless you have all these people sitting in the motor pool ready to go, you can't get there is 48 hours. We are talking a response in force. Assets were in the area within hours of the storm passing, before the levees gave way. Not assets to evacuate 20,000 people from a flooded football stadium. As hard as it seems to accept and understand, you just don't load a thousand guys up, point them south and say "go forth and do well". That will result in a cluster-fugg of biblical proportions in it's own right. There are lines and chains of authorities, by law that have to be dealt with. Don't like it? Get the law changed. All government entities have to work within the law, and within their lines of authority. I could probably write a book here, or at least a chapter or two. Things do NOT happen in real life like they do on TV. People are only capable of so much, and it's unrealistic and unreasonable to be expected to plan out every possible contingency in every town in America. What do you expect the Coast Guard to do, send every flyable SAR bird to LA? What about the fishing boat off New England that sends out a distress call? Screw him, he's not on TV? Think this stuff through. It's not the normal mission of Title 10 (active duty) military forces to run out and save the town. Though in some cases there are very specialized units earmarked for civil support, all the "heavy lifting" required simply took time to set up, and these people did and are doing a remarkable job. You don't want to understand it? You want to imply something with Palm Beach? You have a vote. Vote in everytime you get a chance whoever you think will meet your expectations. Be sure to vote for the tax increases required to "be ready" to your standards to the tune of the billions it would require, for something that may or may not happen. Like I said, lots and lots and lots of moving pieces. None of this happens in the snap of someone's fingers. "Make it so" sounds great on Star Trek, but takes a lot of time, people and effort to coordinate in this century. I'm really curious for you, 1Bills - or anyone else to explain what your plan and response would have been, had you been in charge? Maybe we can all learn something here. How would you have evacuated New Orleans while simultaneously addressing the needs of an area the size of Great Britain in your 48 hours or less scenario?

[Dan Gross]

Things do NOT happen in real life like they do on TV.

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But it took 5 whole seasons' worth of 24 for things to happen! Do you know how many imminent threats Jack Bauer saved the world from in that amount of time? And that's just one man!

 

 

Er, I mean, word.

[KRC]

"Make it so" sounds great on Star Trek

440380[/snapback]

 

So, you are a Picard fan.

[Ghost of BiB]

So, you are a Picard fan.

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No, I always thought that was a really wussy thing to say. I'm also about done beating this horse. I suggest everyone just write in their ideas for improvement to the DHS suggestion box. I'm certain most will be well received.

[VABills]

No, I always thought that was a really wussy thing to say. I'm also about done beating this horse. I suggest everyone just write in their ideas for improvement to the DHS suggestion box. I'm certain most will be well received.

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Send them to me, I'll drop them off on my way in tomorrow. I walk right by the FEMA office.

[SilverNRed]

I don't know.  Tom Hanks stormed Omaha Beach in less than 25 minutes.

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[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I'm really curious for you, 1Bills - or anyone else to explain what your plan and response would have been, had you been in charge? Maybe we can all learn something here. How would you have evacuated New Orleans while simultaneously addressing the needs of an area the size of Great Britain in your 48 hours or less scenario?

440380[/snapback]

 

He's shared his plan: scream "Why is it taking so long? It's been two days already!" at the top of his lungs, then claim the credit when things start happening on day 5.

 

It's the Ray Nagin plan.