Federal Response - TV versus Reality

[SilverNRed]

Link

 

This is interesting.

 

It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.

   

"Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom.

 

But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

 

Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:

 

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

 

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

 

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

 

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

He continues:

I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:

 

More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

 

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

 

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

And, of course, no one has been able to name a country that could have done better.

[Ghost of BiB]

Link

 

This is interesting.

He continues:

 

And, of course, no one has been able to name a country that could have done better.

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That's why I gave up on it. Most of the news, and many of the posters here don't want to hear anything other than bad. It wasn't perfect, whatever perfect is. People need to understand that "24" is not real. but, they aren't going to.

[ExiledInIllinois]

That is not the point. I do admit you make good points for bureaucrats.

 

Time line?

 

My guess is you weren't waiting for water?

 

Ahhhh.... Who cares? I guess you gotta break a few eggs to make an omlette.

 

I have found one thing out working for the governement for 15 years. Bureaucrats will always tweek the numbers.

 

Enjoy your picnic while others suffer. Just as long as it isn't you.

[ExiledInIllinois]

That's why I gave up on it. Most of the news, and many of the posters here don't want to hear anything other than bad. It wasn't perfect, whatever perfect is. People need to understand that "24" is not real. but, they aren't going to.

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I gotta admit that the federal response was good. Like you said not perfect.

 

The funny thing is that I am a perfectionist and the levees should have held.

 

It isn't so much about the response as to what caused the whole thing to happen in the first place? Why 4 internal, count them 4 INTERNAL levees were breached.

 

Tell yourself it was a Cat 5 hurricane... That is still not the point. Hurricanes happen. Really strong hurricanes happen.

 

I can give you all these points... Blow sunshine up your arse and tell you things are all good till contract time comes rolling around again.

 

That is no the point for me.

 

The NOLA fiasco should have never happened in the first place.

 

This is no attempt to highjack the thread and no response is needed. No repsonse can probably be given?

 

The point for me is why some 30 years ago did the Corps piecemeal the levees when they realized that their modeling and design was proven to be grossly inadequate? Did they realize? My bet is that they didn't want to accept anything else.

 

When the "Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale" came out in 1969 and proved that the rudimentary modeling by the Corps used to design the levees was proven to be GROSSLY inadequate... Why wasn't anything radically done then?... This was just 4 short years after Betsy and the very same year as Camille.

 

You think they would have accepted anything that was going to put their pet projects and reputation on the line?

 

You think bureaucrats and engineers can man-up to their mistakes and shortcomings? Even if their mistakes are scientifically proven otherwise? Whatever the case is, they (the powers that were) are probably dead today... So they will never know the severity of their obstinate behavior.

 

Back to the point of the thread.

 

If we continue to blow sunshine up the arses of these bureaucrats we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes that we made over 30 years ago. The two are interconnected. In the late 60's it was the levees. Now it is about the human response to those very same levees breaking.

 

The "it is good enough, better than anything else in the past"[/i] mentality has to be questioned. We do not need to be protecting that and the establishment that accepts it.

 

Dream grace. Dream perfection.

[1billsfan]

Link

 

This is interesting.

He continues:

 

And, of course, no one has been able to name a country that could have done better.

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The Coast Guard did it's job. We all know that.

 

America's become painfully aware that Bush let his "buddy" appoint his grossly underqualified "buddy" to head of the Federal Emergency Management Association. The results of the federal government's response the first few days of the disaster is something that will follow this administration for the rest of it's term. What makes it even more disgraceful is that Brown was allowed to be appointed with full knowledge of the events of 9/11. No article from a Bush apologist can change that fact.

[SilverNRed]

The Coast Guard did it's job. We all know that.

 

America's become painfully aware that Bush let his "buddy" appoint his grossly underqualified "buddy" to head of the Federal Emergency Management Association. The results of the federal government's response the first few days of the disaster is something that will follow this administration for the rest of it's term. What makes it even more disgraceful is that Brown was allowed to be appointed with full knowledge of the events of 9/11. No article from a Bush apologist can change that fact.

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Yes, but as my link points out, the results are the greatest rescue and relief effort in world history. It was not a federal screw-up despite the compulsion by many on the Left to portray it as such (heck, everyone who does it talks about it like it is an undisputed FACT that the federal government did a horrible job when the truth is the exact opposite).

 

Human suffering happened but that was because of a hurricane and poorly designed levees (and a poorly designed evacuation plan that was executed even more poorly), not the federal response.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

America's become painfully aware that Bush let his "buddy" appoint his grossly underqualified "buddy" to head of the Federal Emergency Management Association.

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That criticism would have carried a lot more weight when he was appointed, rather than after two years of on-the-job training that included responding to four of the most damaging hurricanes in history.

[taterhill]

bottom line...supplies should have been at the superdome and convention center...to me the mayor of NO dropped the ball...

[Dan Gross]

bottom line...supplies should have been at the superdome and convention center...to me the mayor of NO dropped the ball...

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People ignore the fact that the mayor told people to bring 3-5 days of supplies. Why would he do that if he expected relief to arrive within 12 hours after the storm?

[ExiledInIllinois]

bottom line...supplies should have been at the superdome and convention center...to me the mayor of NO dropped the ball...

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Bottom line again is it all goes back to the levees and the darn things breaking.

 

I am still gonna contend that they should have never broke. NOLA made it out of the storm very well. Yes, they should have planned for a worst case scenario and stockpiled stuff. But, the stockpiling idea has been squashed here becasue "we are a in demand world"... The community haven idea seemed to get negative response because of that issue.

 

My bet is that nothing would have worked.

 

The only hope was avoiding this tragedy.

 

We are focusing on the aftermath. I suspect there is more to the story about what went wrong than we will ever know.

 

Yes, of course Katrina's wrath was the major factor... IMHO, I just know there is more to the failures than the storm.

[1billsfan]

Yes, but as my link points out, the results are the greatest rescue and relief effort in world history.  It was not a federal screw-up despite the compulsion by many on the Left to portray it as such (heck, everyone who does it talks about it like it is an undisputed FACT that the federal government did a horrible job when the truth is the exact opposite).

 

Human suffering happened but that was because of a hurricane and poorly designed levees (and a poorly designed evacuation plan that was executed even more poorly), not the federal response.

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You can ignore the phrase "the first few days" in my sentence all you'd like. Unfortunately for Bush backers, that's the part Americans don't seem to ignore.

[ExiledInIllinois]

People ignore the fact that the mayor told people to bring 3-5 days of supplies.  Why would he do that if he expected relief to arrive within 12 hours after the storm?

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That is a good point Dan.

 

They should be stressing this point.

[1billsfan]

That criticism would have carried a lot more weight when he was appointed, rather than after two years of on-the-job training that included responding to four of the most damaging hurricanes in history. 

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Let me get this straight...you're defending Ron Brown now? Oh boy.

 

On-the-job training for a Director of FEMA........hmmmmmmmmm. Doesn't really seem like such a wise decision now, does it.

[Ghost of BiB]

You can ignore the phrase "the first few days" in my sentence all you'd like. Unfortunately for Bush backers, that's the part Americans don't seem to ignore.

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Unfortunately for Bush Bashers, none of them seem to have the first idea of what is involved in this type of response, or what is supposed to happen - let alone what is possible, but go on ahead and have at it. It apparantly makes y'all feel better.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Unfortunately for Bush Bashers, none of them seem to have the first idea of what is involved in this type of response, or what is supposed to happen - let alone what is possible, but go on ahead and have at it. It apparantly makes y'all feel better.

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Sorry for being skeptical of you... Don't take it personal.

 

Obviously you do.

 

That is why it took four days when the order said IMMEDIATE.

 

Again is IMMEDIATE kinda like defining what "is" is?

 

Maybe next time they can just cut through all the crap and say:

 

"We will get there, when we get there."

[1billsfan]

Unfortunately for Bush Bashers, none of them seem to have the first idea of what is involved in this type of response, or what is supposed to happen - let alone what is possible, but go on ahead and have at it. It apparantly makes y'all feel better.

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Bush was as clueless as the mayor, governer and FEMA Director. So $500 billion a year on nation defense gets you rescued from a national emergency in 4-5 days?

 

That's embarassing.

[Ghost of BiB]

Sorry for being skeptical of you... Don't take it personal.

 

Obviously you do.  

That is why it took four days when the order said IMMEDIATE.

 

Again is IMMEDIATE kinda like defining what "is" is?

 

Maybe next time they can just cut through all the crap and say:

 

"We will get there, when we get there."

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Absolutely not. I don't take it personally. I just don't get a good feel that a lot of people from many different perspectives have a good idea of what the federal government is DESIGNED to provide in an emergency management role vs. what was "expected". All the "set piece" stuff is working pretty well. It's the ad hoc that had to be developed on the fly that is at issue. Consequence Management is a multi-layered system and approach. There are things broke that need fixing, but I'm still of the mind that if the system worked as designed, with both NO and LA doing their part, this would not be the controversy it has become. A regional consequence management plan should involve more than throwing one's hands in the air and screaming help. OK, Shephard Smith was at the Superdome. Whoopie. It's a lot easier to get a reporter, a producer and a camera man into something than it is a battalion and a few hundred tons of supplies. Doing anything short of that in that particular, unique situation could well have caused more rioting, lawlessness and death. Just a thought on my part, but I might weigh the value of dropping a pallet or two of water into 20,000 people already at the crazy point with the expected result vs waiting a day or two and going in with some sort of rational plan to assist everyone. I don't think many are truly grasping how bad the "security" issues were in those first couple of days. There were a lot of people absolutely NOT willing to step up and help their fellow man. People are not necessarily good, or willing to act civilized in a disaster.

[Dan Gross]

Just a thought on my part, but I might weigh the value of dropping a pallet or two of water into 20,000 people already at the crazy point with the expected result vs waiting a day or two and going in with some sort of rational plan to assist everyone. I don't think many are truly grasping how bad the "security" issues were in those first couple of days. There were a lot of people absolutely NOT willing to step up and help their fellow man. People are not necessarily good, or willing to act civilized in a disaster.

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I tried bringing up that point but was told by an "expert" that there were National Guard on the ground to provide enough security to prevent said riot...

[SilverNRed]

Bush was as clueless as the mayor, governer and FEMA Director. So $500 billion a year on nation defense gets you rescued from a national emergency in 4-5 days?

 

That's embarassing.

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Yeah, it's also the best any country on the face of the earth could do.

 

Unless we perfect the technology behind teleportation any time soon, there will never be such a thing as "immediate" help when three states are flooded and in ruins.

[SilverNRed]

You can ignore the phrase "the first few days" in my sentence all you'd like. Unfortunately for Bush backers, that's the part Americans don't seem to ignore.

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So, in the "first few days" we should have been able to drain all the flooded areas and have "immediate" help by way of thousands of troops on the ground? Yeah, that's realistic.