Justice Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 With the Bills pounding the ball, which I do like, but they should be able to find some single coverage or at least catch a safety playing the run too hard and strike with a deep pass. Is it because the Bills have no faith in O-Line to hold up their blocks long enough to get off a deep pass? Evans and Moulds have the speed, why not use it? I like the fact that the Bills are gonna run it this year, but you can't be too stubborn. You might as well telegraph your opponents your game plan. Even Dallas went deep from time to time. I would also like to see Euhus get some "PT". He looks like he has the speed and hands to strech the field. Come on guys get creative.
mead107 Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 last year all anyone could say was RUN THE BALL, this year the saying is going to be throw the ball deep
gflande1 Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 I think once the coaching staff gains more confidence in the line and in Drew, they will start throwing longer passes. Give the line a little more time. They looked good, alot better than I expected this early. Once drew has a little more time, you'll see the ball fly
VABills Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 So the coaches are expected to open the entire playbook up, even if the team is not ready, during the first week of the season. Good thing most of you aren't coaches. They have specific plays and ideas during certain situations. They also do not want to put every play in our playbook on film day one, before we even meet a division foe. Relax you will see a much broader playbook when we see the patsies in a few weeks.
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 last year all anyone could say was RUN THE BALL, this year the saying is going to be throw the ball deep 30487[/snapback] Neither extremes are good. You won't get very far in today's NFL if you are predictable and one-dimensional. I would have liked to have seen more of a downfield passing game against the weak Jags corners. The amount of running we did was fine, but the passing should have been more diverse than just 1 pass attempt greater than 20 yds (to the TE no less). Given the current state of the O-line, it's somewhat understandable why Mularkey and the offensive coaches did what they did Sunday. However, the players on the O-line better learn the nuances of their position pretty friggin quickly (try no later than this Sunday?) because the losses can add up and before you know it we are sitting at the way bottom looking up in the playoff race...i.e. another season wasted.
VABills Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 Neither extremes are good. You won't get very far in today's NFL if you are predictable and one-dimensional. I would have liked to have seen more of a downfield passing game against the weak Jags corners. The amount of running we did was fine, but the passing should have been more diverse than just 1 pass attempt greater than 20 yds (to the TE no less). Given the current state of the O-line, it's somewhat understandable why Mularkey and the offensive coaches did what they did Sunday. However, the players on the O-line better learn the nuances of their position pretty friggin quickly (try no later than this Sunday?) because the losses can add up and before you know it we are sitting at the way bottom looking up in the playoff race...i.e. another season wasted. 30508[/snapback] But how do you know that we had no plays designed greater the 20 yards. Maybe the deep receiver was covered and Drew checked off to an underneath guy. I wonder how many here actually have seen game film and walked it through with a coach or a player. It is tough on TV whether a receiver went long.
LasBillz Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 I think once the coaching staff gains more confidence in the line and in Drew, they will start throwing longer passes. Give the line a little more time. They looked good, alot better than I expected this early. Once drew has a little more time, you'll see the ball fly 30489[/snapback] That's what play action does, if used properly. Running 7 times in a row is just plain stupid. After 4-5 runs, the defense tightening up, fake a handoff, and find Moulds or Reed wide open. I really thought that Mularkey said they would use the run to open up the passing game, not to open up...more running.
appooOnU Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 I actually kind of liked the diversity of the offense on Sunday. According to the stat book we had passes completed of 17 (Moulds) and 27 (Cambell) as our longest passes.
jjamie12 Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 I would have liked to have seen more of a downfield passing game against the weak Jags corners. The amount of running we did was fine, but the passing should have been more diverse than just 1 pass attempt greater than 20 yds (to the TE no less). [bold is mine] Ok, but here is the problem. From what Drew and the coaches said, the Jags were playing a two-deep most of the game, eliminating (or helping to cover up, at least) the deficiencies in their weak corners. If we were throwing downfield it wouldn't have really been against their corners, it would have been against their safeties. It's tough to have a downfield passing game against the 2-deep, except in the middle where... wait for it... the TE can get free behind the backers, splitting the 2-deep... That's why the pass was to the TE, not because of some kind of stupidity in the Bills thinking...
bills_fan Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 The deep pass is coming. You guys read what MM said last week..We're not going to be perfect in week 1. Combine that with the fact that the line has not yet jelled (even tho they played better than I thought they would) and setting up a deep ball right now would end up with Bledsoe being sacked. Give it a week or two, I expect to see the full array of offensive weaponary ready, primed and willing to go for the 3 straight division contests we start in 2 weeks.
zow2 Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 Look, the way the game played out the coaching staff was winning by chipping away and running clock as much as possible. They tried to win with that strategy. It didn't work out. To be honest, it completely blew up in their face. I think from here on out there will be a little more urgency to bust a big play here or there since it's nearly impossible to flawlessly execute 10, 12, 15 play drives that result in TD's.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 [bold is mine] Ok, but here is the problem. From what Drew and the coaches said, the Jags were playing a two-deep most of the game, eliminating (or helping to cover up, at least) the deficiencies in their weak corners. If we were throwing downfield it wouldn't have really been against their corners, it would have been against their safeties. It's tough to have a downfield passing game against the 2-deep, except in the middle where... wait for it... the TE can get free behind the backers, splitting the 2-deep... That's why the pass was to the TE, not because of some kind of stupidity in the Bills thinking... 30634[/snapback] Not just deep. WAY deep. All day. You throw long to open up the defense and keep the safeties from creeping up. You really don't need to do that under one circumstance: If they don't creep up. And they didn't.
BB2004 Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 You have to have protection to throw the ball long. So far it hasn't been proven.
jjamie12 Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 Not just deep. WAY deep. All day. You throw long to open up the defense and keep the safeties from creeping up. You really don't need to do that under one circumstance: If they don't creep up. And they didn't. 30645[/snapback] I'm confused... are you saying that the safeties did or didn't creep up? Because it sounds like you're saying that they didn't creep up. And if they didn't creep up, then what is the point of throwing it deep to 'keep the safeties from creeping up'? If you meant that the safeties WERE creeping up, and we should be throwing the ball deep (I'm assuming you mean to take a couple of shots long downfield to keep the d honest rather than actually expecting to complete these type of passes... just based on your comments) to keep them from doing so, I think that's a valid way of looking at things. I, however, don't want to see the Bills waste TOO many plays on this type of thing, because I don't really think we have a good enough offense to have that luxury. Once or twice a game? OK, I guess...
John from Riverside Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 With the Bills pounding the ball, which I do like, but they should be able to find some single coverage or at least catch a safety playing the run too hard and strike with a deep pass. Is it because the Bills have no faith in O-Line to hold up their blocks long enough to get off a deep pass? Evans and Moulds have the speed, why not use it? I like the fact that the Bills are gonna run it this year, but you can't be too stubborn. You might as well telegraph your opponents your game plan. Even Dallas went deep from time to time. I would also like to see Euhus get some "PT". He looks like he has the speed and hands to strech the field. Come on guys get creative. 30472[/snapback] I think the key is finding the right balance....which I believe the bills will. If I had to guess I would say that the bills are showing they are going to run the fricken ball regardless of what you do on defense....and force them to respect it.... THEN LOOK OUT
Kelly the Dog Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 I'm confused... are you saying that the safeties did or didn't creep up? Because it sounds like you're saying that they didn't creep up. And if they didn't creep up, then what is the point of throwing it deep to 'keep the safeties from creeping up'? If you meant that the safeties WERE creeping up, and we should be throwing the ball deep (I'm assuming you mean to take a couple of shots long downfield to keep the d honest rather than actually expecting to complete these type of passes... just based on your comments) to keep them from doing so, I think that's a valid way of looking at things. I, however, don't want to see the Bills waste TOO many plays on this type of thing, because I don't really think we have a good enough offense to have that luxury. Once or twice a game? OK, I guess... 30728[/snapback] The safeties, in the Jax game, did NOT creep up. They were way back, almost always to Evans side, BTW. There was no need to throw deep to keep them from creeping up. There are still good reasons to throw deep, of course, but it wasn't necessary. The field was open. The deep lanes were covered.
YOOOOOO Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 I dont mind dem not taking a shot deep, especially when our WR/TE's were dropping short yardage passes all day.....
Dan Gross Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 Some of those short yardage throws were dump-offs...a fair number were, IIRC. I have a feeling they had the deep ball called a couple of times, but didn't get the coverage they had hoped, so they dumped it off. Would y'all be more convinced that we were trying to go deep if Drew took the sacks instead of dumping it off?
John from Riverside Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 I actually think there is some merit in this discussion...... The idea of bringing in Lee Evans was getting a guy with blinding speed who could catch the home run shot..... Now....I totally understand what the bills are doing and why they are doing it..... For instance....remember the year where Bledsoe and this offense was nuclear powered and then tailed off at the end of the season with Moulds on one side and Peerless on the other? Why did that happen? Adjustments my friends......good defensive coordinators make adjustments....then the teams behind them mimic them when it works....... I believe that the bills are establishing something early to both make the league think twice AND to get some confidence going in our O Line and will open it up as the season goes on..... This is going to be a dangerous team at the end of the year.......we just have to find a way to get into the postseason
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 The safeties, in the Jax game, did NOT creep up. They were way back, almost always to Evans side, BTW. There was no need to throw deep to keep them from creeping up. There are still good reasons to throw deep, of course, but it wasn't necessary. The field was open. The deep lanes were covered. 30843[/snapback] From what I saw, the good thing which Jax did with their D was that they also mixed up their coverages and how they played them. Good Ds do this and holding the Bills O to 10 points provides a pretty strong indication that their D played a good game. Examples of where the Jax D creeped up were on plays like our fumbled backward pass where Boldin read the play and jumped on Moulds reception not only behind the line but behind Bledsoe. Also several of ou intial incompletions saw good coverage only a few yards downfield which is not the sign of a backtracking or deep cover. Jax did mix it up and sometimes Bledsoe read it well and actually caught them hanging back or in a blown coverage like Moulds TD. However, the overall summary of whether Jax was in two-deep all the time or crept up from time to time in a productive way was that we were only able to get 10 points off of them. I think they could be exploited and we saw this because between the 20s we got some good gains, but they also proved to be big hitters and managed to get a big turnover off of Moulds in the redzone and Lindell failed on a 42 yarder. All in all I think it goes too far to describe them as always sitting back. Ultimately, the Bills failed to be aggressive enough to put more points on the board. In the future they will need to improve further in their run attack so they not only get tough yards as they did, but produce a higher yards per carry from the run so that teams are forced to creep up even more so we can exploit them with the long pass.
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