SDS Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 that detailed the city's plan to prepare for a hurricane. I didn't hear where to find it. Everything that he was reading from this document is the TRUE smoking gun in all this. From the details on how the city WILL use all methods of public transportation to evacuate all special needs residents 72 hours before the fall of the storm to what additional responsibilities the city will assume. It's all laid out and none of it happened at the local level. Is anyone listening to where that ducument can be found?
KRC Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 that detailed the city's plan to prepare for a hurricane. I didn't hear where to find it. Everything that he was reading from this document is the TRUE smoking gun in all this. From the details on how the city WILL use all methods of public transportation to evacuate all special needs residents 72 hours before the fall of the storm to what additional responsibilities the city will assume. It's all laid out and none of it happened at the local level. Is anyone listening to where that ducument can be found? 430819[/snapback] Limbaugh read it, so it must be instantly discounted. Have you tried Google?
Dan Gross Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/Prin...tal=46&tabid=26 It was linked to from a blog that Bib linked to (the story about not using the buses...). Notice all the stuff under "future plans," include 'post-disaster recovery.' The mayor even said in the evacuation order that he would commandeer buses...in a certain sense they did, but they only used them (city buses) to get folks to the "shelter of last resort," even though they knew the SuperDome wasn't necessarily going to withstand a Cat 4....
SilverNRed Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/Prin...tal=46&tabid=26 It was linked to from a blog that Bib linked to (the story about not using the buses...). Notice all the stuff under "future plans," include 'post-disaster recovery.' The mayor even said in the evacuation order that he would commandeer buses...in a certain sense they did, but they only used them (city buses) to get folks to the "shelter of last resort," even though they knew the SuperDome wasn't necessarily going to withstand a Cat 4.... 430860[/snapback] Before the hurrican hit, I posted that I was worried the SuperDome wouldn't even be able to withstand Katrina should it hit NO directly as a Cat 5. Imagine that building collapsing on the thousands of people inside. It was closer to happening than you think.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 Before the hurrican hit, I posted that I was worried the SuperDome wouldn't even be able to withstand Katrina should it hit NO directly as a Cat 5. Imagine that building collapsing on the thousands of people inside. It was closer to happening than you think. 430878[/snapback] Is this "closer to happening than you think" being judged by the amount of exterior membrane that tore away? Unless you heard something else. I was under the impression that, structurally the things is still sound and didn't suffer one bit (except the waterproofing membrane)? Any links to where it might have collapsed? People where moved within the concourses... Would they have collapsed?
SilverNRed Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 Is this "closer to happening than you think" being judged by the amount of exterior membrane that tore away? Unless you heard something else. I was under the impression that, structurally the things is still sound and didn't suffer one bit (except the waterproofing membrane)? Any links to where it might have collapsed? People where moved within the concourses... Would they have collapsed? 431522[/snapback] It was something I read about the SD having a very unorthodox construction whereby the walls, in essence, "hang" from the roof. The building really wasn't designed to withstand 175 mph winds. Luckily, the storm died down a bit last Sunday night. Had the hurricane been even stronger, though, I don't think the city's plan would have changed much and they'd have continued herding people into a building that was not built to withstand a storm that could collapse it. Imagine 40,000 people in a building and it collapses. It could have happened.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 It was something I read about the SD having a very unorthodox construction whereby the walls, in essence, "hang" from the roof. The building really wasn't designed to withstand 175 mph winds. Luckily, the storm died down a bit last Sunday night. Had the hurricane been even stronger, though, I don't think the city's plan would have changed much and they'd have continued herding people into a building that was not built to withstand a storm that could collapse it. Imagine 40,000 people in a building and it collapses. It could have happened. 431593[/snapback] It was "supposed to" withstand "up to" 200mph winds - which basically means anything short of Camille, Gilbert, or Andrew. And I never completely bought that anyway, since 1) roof designs that are unsupported over large areas are always weak, and 2) structures that were engineered 30+ years ago to then-conservative standards have this odd way of turning out to be not-so-conservative 30+ years later.
SilverNRed Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 It was "supposed to" withstand "up to" 200mph winds - which basically means anything short of Camille, Gilbert, or Andrew. And I never completely bought that anyway, since 1) roof designs that are unsupported over large areas are always weak, and 2) structures that were engineered 30+ years ago to then-conservative standards have this odd way of turning out to be not-so-conservative 30+ years later. 431601[/snapback] Honestly, given New Orlean's standards for disaster preparedness, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if their plan included placing tens of thousands of people in a building that was going to collapse and kill them all. "Future plans include.....an excuse as to why that seemed like a good idea at the time."
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 Hey... What can I say. Everybody is building "short." But, then you guys scream (okay not you CTM) when the 20 Amp Brigade comes shuffling into town.
Gambler Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 that detailed the city's plan to prepare for a hurricane. I didn't hear where to find it. Everything that he was reading from this document is the TRUE smoking gun in all this. From the details on how the city WILL use all methods of public transportation to evacuate all special needs residents 72 hours before the fall of the storm to what additional responsibilities the city will assume. It's all laid out and none of it happened at the local level. Is anyone listening to where that ducument can be found? 430819[/snapback] The document can be found with all the Iraqi WMD's. Sept. 8 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency's upper ranks are mostly staffed with people who share two traits: loyalty to President George W. Bush and little or no background in emergency management. Director Michael Brown served as commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association for a decade before coming to FEMA in 2001. FEMA director planned to get all the evacuees out on horseback apparently.
SilverNRed Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 The document can be found with all the Iraqi WMD's. Sept. 8 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency's upper ranks are mostly staffed with people who share two traits: loyalty to President George W. Bush and little or no background in emergency management. Director Michael Brown served as commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association for a decade before coming to FEMA in 2001. FEMA director planned to get all the evacuees out on horseback apparently. 433860[/snapback] The Federal government isn't responsible for evacuating cities; local governments are. The whole reason they ordered a mandatory evacuation before Katrina hit was that the city was going to be leveled and getting in to rescue people wasn't going to be easy. This is why you evacuate before the worst happens. And I don't expect the Feds to be responsible for having an evacuation plan for every U.S. city while local officials sit on their hands.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 The Federal government isn't responsible for evacuating cities; local governments are. The whole reason they ordered a mandatory evacuation before Katrina hit was that the city was going to be leveled and getting in to rescue people wasn't going to be easy. This is why you evacuate before the worst happens. And I don't expect the Feds to be responsible for having an evacuation plan for every U.S. city while local officials sit on their hands. 433872[/snapback] Oh yes they are... When state and local authorities become overwhelmed. Wasn't their a letter to the president indicating that help is needed because of this. FRP was there ready to go, albeit 4 days late. This isn't a pissing contest between the state/local and feds. The feds fully acknowledge their role as "calvary" with regards to this. Again... I am starring at the press release right now. Bib... You understand this right? Again... Why has this become a pissing contest? The feds fully acknowledeged the pickle NOLA was gonna be put in before the storm. Not just NOLA, throughout the gulf coast, the FRP was just as slow.
SilverNRed Posted September 9, 2005 Posted September 9, 2005 Oh yes they are... When state and local authorities become overwhelmed. 434180[/snapback] They were overwhelmed a week before the storm hit. They need to do better than that. It's not the federal government's responsibility to make sure that every local government is doing it's job. If it was, then why have local governments at all? The Governor was taking her sweet time to even let the President do anything and had to be told to order the mandatory evacuation. The most blatant example of anyone dragging their feet during this whole thing was Blanco telling the President that she "needed 24 hours" to mull over her options when Bush and Co. were trying to get involved.
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