Uhh. Folks.. I don't NC is even best player on D

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I will hate if Clements can't play Sunday as well. In my mind he definitely deserved his Pro Bowl nod last year (even if he did just squeeze into a trip to Hawaii due to an injury).

 

Hpwever, the WE'RE DOOMED Sunday if Clements can't play talk seems a bit neurotic at best and even based in some psychsis as folks seemed to be deathly afraid that he will hit the free market next year (I repeat that emphasizing the key point NEXT SEASON).

 

Definite Clements is a talented player but lets think about the football aspects of this and keep some perspective.

 

1. Clements was one of three Bills defenders (4 if you want to count defender and McGee but he got the ride based on his KR rather than position skills o need to count him for these purposes) who made the Pro Bowl last year and to me Spikes is a far more valuable player individually and to the Bills as a team. I think he would be far harder to replace. In addition to that for those who feel football starts with the ability to run and stop the run, there is a good argument that Adams is a more important and difficult to replace player than NC.

 

2. If you feel the Pro Bowl is simply a popularity contest (actually not completely true as it is a popularity contest and also a totally accurate statement of good play versus inadequate play and not a bad estimation in most cases of good play versus great play though it is far from perfect) then one of the best examples of this is that actually London Fletcher is a far smarter and in many ways a better player than NC. Fletcher also takes the occasional bad penalty or personal fouls for his semi-controlled mayhem, However, Fletcher is D captain because he clearly knows the game and his calling of signals is critical to this attacking D. The debate really is not whether he is a top 5 CB in this league but whether he is even one of the top 5 players on the Bills as he may be the 4th best guy on the defense and on the offense their are talents like Moulds and WM who may push him out of being one of the top 5 Bills.

 

3. Even if one wants to forget the subjective ranking argument, one can also look at who is behind him. Again we obviously take a hit losing NC if he cannot play, but we chose to keep only 4 CBs in this pass happy league because we are pretty deep at CB (and this is even the case with Thomas PUPped. There is obviously a big drop-off to rookie Eric King who is thrid string on the depth chart behind Thomas something needs to be done.

 

However, since the something is likely having a former Pro Bowler Vincent take over for NC for a game I see little problem here. Since the FS spot would then be manned by former starting FS Rashad Baker with the hard-hitting newbie Leonhard backing him up I see little fatalality in this move against the Texans who have their own struggles.

 

I hope NC is good to go but get a grip life is doable if he can't.

[finknottle]

I will hate if Clements can't play Sunday as well. In my mind he definitely deserved his Pro Bowl nod last year (even if he did just squeeze into a trip to Hawaii due to an injury).

 

Hpwever, the WE'RE DOOMED Sunday if Clements can't play talk seems a bit neurotic at best and even based in some psychsis as folks seemed to be deathly afraid that he will hit the free market next year (I repeat that emphasizing the key point NEXT SEASON).

 

Definite Clements is a talented player but lets think about the football aspects of this and keep some perspective.

:

I hope NC is good to go but get a grip life is doable if he can't.

430207[/snapback]

 

Food for thought in the whole "we have to re-sign NC no matter what the price" debate.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Food for thought in the whole "we have to re-sign NC no matter what the price" debate.

430212[/snapback]

 

My sense is that they shoukd get all they can out of NC this year and use him to play CB, return punts and whatever else.

 

I see little reason financially for NC to sign before he hits the free-market and the new much larger salary cap is in place and teams are mandated by rule to spend this extra money by the CBA.

 

If Clements demanda the money that the best CB in the league (which he claims to be) gets the Bills cannot even give him a contract with the $18 million bonus under the current cap restrictions. A deal can be done under this cap if Clements is willing to take a split bonus, but to do this imposes the risk on him that he may get hurt and the Bills refuse (as will be their right( to habg onto him and trigger the second bonus,

 

The Bills have loaded up at CB on the chance that NC may leave and by loading up we will be hurt if he leaves but not fatally so.

 

Bo one should root for an injury, but it is possible that he will get hit just like Andree Reed did in his contract year and the Bills could retain his sercices for a song.

 

Both parties need to start negotiating now on what will be a long discussion in order to get to a deal eventually. Perhaps this recent injury will put the fear of gosh in NC but I doubt there will be a deal this week because it probably is impossible for the Bills and likely would not serve NC's fiscal interests.

[justnzane]

Bo one should root for an injury, but it is possible that he will get hit just like Andree Reed did in his contract year and the Bills could retain his sercices for a song.

430339[/snapback]

 

That is pretty sick Fake-fat. You should never wish harm on anyone unless its in a video game, and i mean this with deep hatred for tom brady and dan marino. To wish harm on our own is a horrible thing to say. that is like your employer hoping you get hurt before you approach the 20 year mark.

[Fezmid]

and to me Spikes is a far more valuable player individually and to the Bills as a team. I think he would be far harder to replace.

 

While I agree that Spikes is a better player and more valuable to the Bills, I don't think he's harder to replace -- our depth at LB is supposed to be phenomenal (and looks to be, from what I've seen in preseason). The dropoff at CB is much higher IMHO.

 

CW

[d_wag]

I see little reason financially for NC to sign before he hits the free-market and the new much larger salary cap is in place and teams are mandated by rule to spend this extra money by the CBA.

430339[/snapback]

 

if that is the case why have over a dozen players entering the last year of their contracts recently resigned and decided to forgo free agency?

 

the list includes big names such as:

 

marcus stroud

santana moss

jamal williams

todd heap

duece mcallister

anquan boldin

domanick davis

dan morgan

rashaen mathis

casey hampton

hines ward

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

if that is the case why have over a dozen players entering the last year of their contracts recently resigned and decided to forgo free agency?

 

the list includes big names such as:

 

marcus stroud

santana moss

jamal williams

todd heap

duece mcallister

anquan boldin

domanick davis

dan morgan

rashaen mathis

casey hampton

hines ward

430436[/snapback]

 

Economics.

 

Some players make a judgment that the best deal they can get is from a team with a particular ability to meet that need, while other teams are not in a position to do that.

 

In addition, there is a question of how risk averse a person is. All these players are going to likely get the biggest paycheck they have ever seen and if they worry about injury or if their family needs the money this can be powerful incentive to take the bird in the hand even if there is a potential bigger bird in the bush.

 

I don't know Clements personally and thus do not know his motivations, however:

 

1. The current cap constraints of the Bills are such that a deal for Nate which distibutes an $18 mil cap hit over 6 seasons would force us to restructure some contracts to move our current cap even close to the edge if it included this season. NC's negotiating position is that he thinks he is the #1 CB in performance and by pretty direct implication should br paid that way (Chump Bailey -a lesser player than NC IMHO- took down a $18 million bonus). Dis any of the players you mention command this level of cash in the market and what was the cap status of that team?

 

2. A deal can be constructed with a segmented bonus which does not have the immediate cap implications for the Bills, but in signing this deal, NC would risk the second bonus is he got hurt and could not perform. If the second segmented bonus is for some easily met requirements to assure NC it will be there (ex. he gets paid if he passes within a 3,000 mile radius of the stadium in 2009) then the league can (and has in other cases) ruled that the bonus should count immediately because it will be easily reached.

 

Who knows, Nate may love being a Bill so much that he will take a smaller salary to stay one. However, though I think this is true to some extent, it strikes me as naive to and wishful to think he will take far less than the market is likely to give him under a significantly expanded cap to play.

 

There is one big question of how far TD is willing to go to trade future prospect signing and flexibility for the benefit of having Nate. Its possible he would show Nate the money but not a sure thing.

 

There is another question which I think is even bigger as to whether it is even possible for the Bills to absorb a cap hit which pays NC the salary of the #1 CB in the league.

 

I don't think it is unless something like a segmented bonus is part of the construction and this is why I would not sign if I were Nate because to do do puts me at a risk that the Bills will not have to put me in if we wait for the new cap.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

That is pretty sick Fake-fat. You should never wish harm on anyone unless its in a video game, and i mean this with deep hatred for tom brady and dan marino. To wish harm on our own is a horrible thing to say. that is like your employer hoping you get hurt before you approach the 20 year mark.

430422[/snapback]

 

Perhaps it was my typo of Bo for No, but you misunderstand my post. I flat out say we should not root for injury because that would be immoral and gross. I mentioned it however in terms of assessing what I think the Bills are thinking and I'm afraid that I think that like many enployers and the NFL as a whole they are immoral and gross.

 

I do not think TD is rooting for injury to his potential FAs, but I think as far as the business goes they do not root for injury because they can't control and fine tune it to have him hurt enough to diminish his market value but not so badly he cannot be rehabbed.

 

The Bills historically have given no sign of rooting for this, but once it happened as in the case of Andre Reed and in attempt by this regime though he went elsewhere seemingly to Sam Cowart.

 

I'm not rooting for injury nor do I think the Bills are, but I have few doubts that if the Bills find themselves in that position they will do the "good" business thing and push NC to the wall.

 

I don't think it is a bad thing to be realistic about this assessment of the nature of the world its simply realistic. It's too bad from my perspective that this is the way things are but that appears to me to be the way things are.