Intelligent Design vs. Evolution

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Intelligent Design= A superior conciousness is able to bend nature to it's willl. Rivers can be diverted or contained, wetlands can be drained, and even shifting ground can be built upon. We will remake nature in the image we desire. If a tragedy occurs then the superior conciousness can traverse any obstacle in it's path, immediately, to rescue all life. Emotion rules the day.

 

Evolution= Nature is supreme and can be very cruel, unleashing forces that can damage and destroy all life and physical landscapes. Common sense would dictate not to inhabit areas that are dangerous (evolution favors the intelligent, strong). Those that wish to inhabit said areas are at nature's mercy and can become a statistic of evolution (evolution works by eliminating the ignorant, weak, aged) should tragedy occur. Cold logic prevails every time.

 

***

 

Thinking back on our discussions on intelligent design vs. evolution I wondered to myself if perhaps the events of Katrina have caused any to rethink what should be taught in classrooms?

 

Don't worry, I expect crickets. This requires deeper thinking and can't be reduced to talking points or BUSH BAD.

[KD in CA]

The older I get the less I believe in any supreme being or force or whatever. IMHO, we're all just stuck together on this big rock, at this point in evolution, hurling through space at 66,000 mph.

 

Evolution is the only thing that makes sense (and certainly the only theory that should be taught in public schools). The rest of it is only there to give people something to feel secure in when they go to bed at night.

[finknottle]

Natural Selection= Nature is a supreme and indifferent force, the arbitrator of who lives and dies. People are an expanding force that tries to push the envelope, living here and there and making a living this way and that. Sometimes their ideas are good and they prosper, sometimes they are bad and they fail, and sometimes the difference between success and failure is just dumb luck.

[/dev/null]

The Force = Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we....not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you...me...the tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that ship!

[Mickey]

This kind of post reminds me of when people point to Ancient Rome as some sort of warning to future nations not do what they did lest they fall as Rome did. Of course, the fact that Rome lasted far longer than just about every modern state and experienced success, by the brutal standards of its time, far greater than any other is ignored.

 

New Orleans has been a great and vibrant city for well over 200 years so do we pronounce the entire city a failure because of Katrina?

 

As for the twisted connection between this terrible disaster and evolution, I guess it is better than the approach by other righties, blaming it on gays (Blaming homosexuals) but makes about as much sense.

 

By the way Gavin, the guy who spewed that particular garbage is with Vison America in case you want to sign up.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

This kind of post reminds me of when people point to Ancient Rome as some sort of warning to future nations not do what they did lest they fall as Rome did.  Of course, the fact that Rome lasted far longer than just about every modern state and experienced success, by the brutal standards of its time, far greater than any other is ignored.

 

New Orleans has been a great and vibrant city for well over 200 years so do we pronounce the entire city a failure because of Katrina?   

 

As for the twisted connection between this terrible disaster and evolution, I guess it is better than the approach by other righties, blaming it on gays (Blaming homosexuals) but makes about as much sense.

 

By the way Gavin, the guy who spewed that particular garbage is with Vison America in case you want to sign up.

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Wow, if that's your version of deep thinking then your clients are paying waaaaay too much. One gets better reasoned arguments on the playground. Barely passed the bar, huh?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Intelligent Design= A superior conciousness is able to bend nature to it's willl. Rivers can be diverted or contained, wetlands can be drained, and even shifting ground can be built upon. We will remake nature in the image we desire. If a tragedy occurs then the superior conciousness can traverse any obstacle in it's path, immediately, to rescue all life. Emotion rules the day.

 

Evolution= Nature is supreme and can be very cruel, unleashing forces that can damage and destroy all life and physical landscapes. Common sense would dictate not to inhabit areas that are dangerous (evolution favors the intelligent, strong). Those that wish to inhabit said areas are at nature's mercy and can become a statistic of evolution (evolution works by eliminating the ignorant, weak, aged) should tragedy occur. Cold logic prevails every time.

 

***

 

Thinking back on our discussions on intelligent design vs. evolution I wondered to myself if perhaps the events of Katrina have caused any to rethink what should be taught in classrooms?

 

Don't worry, I expect crickets. This requires deeper thinking and can't be reduced to talking points or BUSH BAD.

430093[/snapback]

 

 

One of my off-the-wall theories is that we exist as a species to propagate intelligence.

 

Our technological advancement points to creation of self-thinking machines.

 

Therefore, IMO ID is possible. We could well be the creation of some other species, ad infinitum. That being said, I do think evolution exists as Darwinism is proved every single day.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

One of my off-the-wall theories is that we exist as a species to propagate intelligence.

 

Our technological advancement points to creation of self-thinking machines.

 

Therefore, IMO ID is possible. We could well be the creation of some other species, ad infinitum. That being said, I do think evolution exists as Darwinism is proved every single day.

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The makers of the pyramids perhaps?

 

So would you download your consciousness if the technology became available?

[TheMadCap]

One of my off-the-wall theories is that we exist as a species to propagate intelligence.

 

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We are failing badly on that point I believe.

 

However, it may be that by passing Motherment laws and better health care, we have effectively eliminated natural selection for humans....

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The makers of the pyramids perhaps?

 

So would you download your consciousness if the technology became available?

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Yes.

 

The body is weak. The mind is everything.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We are failing badly on that point I believe.

 

However, it may be that by passing Motherment laws and better health care, we have effectively eliminated natural selection for humans....

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There is a theory that in the near future, we will make evolution of the human species cease along natural lines.

 

The alternative being, of course, pre-selected adaptation.

[Mickey]

Wow, if that's your version of deep thinking then your clients are paying waaaaay too much. One gets better reasoned arguments on the playground. Barely passed the bar, huh?

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Always with the personal insults, once again demonstrating what a class act you are. Take a bow.

[Mickey]

One of my off-the-wall theories is that we exist as a species to propagate intelligence.

 

Our technological advancement points to creation of self-thinking machines.

 

Therefore, IMO ID is possible. We could well be the creation of some other species, ad infinitum. That being said, I do think evolution exists as Darwinism is proved every single day.

430521[/snapback]

A recent finding discovered that a T-Rex was actually pregnant. They had to cut a fossile T-Rex bone they found because it was simply too heavy to move in one piece. When they did so, they found that it was not entirely fossilized. They found that it had medullary bone, a thin layer of highly vascualrized bone previously found only in female birds during ovulation. The bones of birds are hollow to begin with and forming eggs robs them of calcium weakening their bones. The formation of medullary bone temporarily shores up their skeletal structure while forming eggs. When the last egg is laid, the medullary bones are reabsorbed into the body. It is an amazing discovery offering as it does proof of the now widely accepted theory that birds and dinosaurs are related species. It also enabled the researchers to conclude that the 68 million year old specimen was a pregnant female.

 

Of course, since the bible says the earth is only 10,000 years old, I guess none of this research matters and in fact, despite all evidence to the contrary, that 68 million year old specimen too large to move by helicopter can't possibly exist.

[Mickey]

There is a theory that in the near future, we will make evolution of the human species cease along natural lines.

 

The alternative being, of course, pre-selected adaptation.

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Evolution isn't a straight line path, it has many peaks and valleys. Natural selection tends to speed up when major environmental changes occur so that certain minor adaptations suddenly confer greater advantages than they did prior to the environmental upheval. Not all adaptations are equal, some are far more successful than others and so have an effect much faster than others.

 

I don't think we have nullified natural selection. We have just slowed it down a bit aided by the lack of significant environmental changes and our own ability to protect ourselves from such changes. Still, there are environmental changes drastic enough to overcome our technology. An ice age perhaps. Volcanic eruptions. Plauges. An asteroid hit. That sort of thing.

 

Think of the spanish language as a genetic nuance. Parents who speak it tend to have children who do thus it is almost as inheritable as any true genetic trait. Although it confers no direct reproductive advantage, it does rise and fall along with the reproductive rates of spanish speakers. Those rates show that spanish speakers are out-reproducing english speakers and accordingly, the number of spanish speakers in proportion to native english speakers is tipping in favor of spanish. In a relatively short time, we can see spanish spreading to the point where it may one day overcome english as the "native" language of the USA. Of something like language can spread through natural selection even without confering a direct reproductive benefit, how hard can it be to understand how a physical trait could go from rarity to dominance?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Evolution isn't a straight line path, it has many peaks and valleys.  Natural selection tends to speed up when major environmental changes occur so that certain minor adaptations suddenly confer greater advantages than they did prior to the environmental upheval.  Not all adaptations are equal, some are far more successful than others and so have an effect much faster than others.

 

I don't think we have nullified natural selection.  We have just slowed it down a bit aided by the lack of significant environmental changes and our own ability to protect ourselves from such changes.  Still, there are environmental changes drastic enough to overcome our technology.  An ice age perhaps.  Volcanic eruptions.  Plauges.  An asteroid hit.  That sort of thing.

 

Think of the spanish language as a genetic nuance.  Parents who speak it tend to have children who do thus it is almost as inheritable as any true genetic trait.  Although it confers no direct reproductive advantage, it does rise and fall along with the reproductive rates of spanish speakers.  Those rates show that spanish speakers are out-reproducing english speakers and accordingly, the number of spanish speakers in proportion to native english speakers is tipping in favor of spanish.  In a relatively short time, we can see spanish spreading to the point where it may one day overcome english as the "native" language of the USA.  Of something like language can spread through natural selection even without confering a direct reproductive benefit, how hard can it be to understand how a physical trait could go from rarity to dominance?

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Wait a minute...are you espousing social darwinism? That's a no-no for a leftie

[Mickey]

Wait a minute...are you espousing social darwinism? That's a no-no for a leftie

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Social darwinism is the idea that wealthy white europeans were more highly evolved than other humans and that behaviour, be it criminal, deviant or otherwise, was inherited as a genetic trait, ie racial, trait. Language is not a behaviour, it is learned. I used it as an example because it follows, for reasons having nothing to do with genetics, reproduction. It is not genetics at work, it is the simple fact that children learn language from their parents. So though it follows reproduction, it isn't inherited.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Always with the personal insults, once again demonstrating what a class act you are.  Take a bow.

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"By the way Gavin, the guy who spewed that particular garbage is with Vison America in case you want to sign up."

 

Hypocrite thy name is Mickey. No need to take a bow, just go !@#$ yourself.

[blzrul]

Why is this so important?

 

Whatever is the truth - we can't change it, kill it or grill it. So why does it matter? I realize that people are afraid of the unknown and so seek to make it knowable because they garner comfort from it, but for crying out loud there are so many other important things to work out. When you die, you'll find out. Or maybe not. In which case it was all a waste of time and useless worry.

[Mickey]

"By the way Gavin, the guy who spewed that particular garbage is with Vison America in case you want to sign up."

 

Hypocrite thy name is Mickey. No need to take a bow, just go !@#$ yourself.

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Encore, Gavin, Encore!

 

Not unexpected since you started this entire thread with a blanket insult of everyone who might disagree with you stating:

 

"Don't worry, I expect crickets. This requires deeper thinking and can't be reduced to talking points or BUSH BAD."

 

So you see, you started off an angry and bitter man and finshed that way.

 

What is wrong with Rick Scarborough and his "Vison America" anyway?? He is speaking at at the "Countering the War on Faith Conference" which features some of the "leaders" whose views so closely mirror the ones you have so often expressed such as Sam Brownback, Alan Keyes, Gary Bauer, Phyllis Schlafly, David Horowitz, Zell Miller and Judge Roy Moore. Why is associating you with such conservative icons suddenly an insult?

[OGTEleven]

Intelligent Design= A superior conciousness is able to bend nature to it's willl. Rivers can be diverted or contained, wetlands can be drained, and even shifting ground can be built upon. We will remake nature in the image we desire. If a tragedy occurs then the superior conciousness can traverse any obstacle in it's path, immediately, to rescue all life. Emotion rules the day.

 

Evolution= Nature is supreme and can be very cruel, unleashing forces that can damage and destroy all life and physical landscapes. Common sense would dictate not to inhabit areas that are dangerous (evolution favors the intelligent, strong). Those that wish to inhabit said areas are at nature's mercy and can become a statistic of evolution (evolution works by eliminating the ignorant, weak, aged) should tragedy occur. Cold logic prevails every time.

 

***

 

Thinking back on our discussions on intelligent design vs. evolution I wondered to myself if perhaps the events of Katrina have caused any to rethink what should be taught in classrooms?

 

Don't worry, I expect crickets. This requires deeper thinking and can't be reduced to talking points or BUSH BAD.

430093[/snapback]

I'm not sure I understand.

 

 

Check that.....I know I don't understand.

 

Are you saying that Katrina proves evolution? Repudiates Intelligent design? Both? Neither?

 

Simply because I see no connection whatsoever to that topic, my choice would have to be "neither".

 

While I agree that ID should not be in schools (at least I think that is what you're saying). I don't think it calls humans the "intelligent designer" so that particular argument is weak.

 

While I think there is plenty of evidence for evolution theory, I think that exactly 0% of it has anything to do with Katrina.