Dear Mr President

[Terry Tate]

Right, there has never been a flood before.  This is the first one ever so it wouldn't have mattered if it was handled by someone with years of experience in emergency services or by a guy who worked for the International Arabian Horse Association who, by the way, fired him.  If Bush at least hired someone capable of watching televison, FEMA would have known that there were thousands of people at the convention center before Ted Koppel told them.   

 

It's bad enough that you can't seem to make an intelligent point but then to embarass yourself further by topping it off with personal insults is just classic.

I was agreeing with the latest sophmoric trend in stating the FEMA director is unqualified, albeit sarcastically. So personal insults are ok when you do it, but not anyone else - ok counsellor.

 

From FEMA's web site:

Under Secretary Brown has led Homeland Security’s response to more than 164 presidentially declared disasters and emergencies, including the 2003 Columbia Shuttle disaster and the California wildfires in 2003. In 2004, Mr. Brown led FEMA’s thousands of dedicated disaster workers during the most active hurricane season in over 100 years, as FEMA delivered aid more quickly and more efficiently than ever before.

 

Maybe he doesn't meet your standard for initial hire, but it sure sounds like he's had plenty of OJT. Having lived through the hurricanes in Florida last year, I can tell you FEMA's response was certainly appreciated here. I'd like to know where all the juvenile "he's not qualified" posts were then. I guess you weren't an expert on selecting FEMA directors last year, huh?

 

It's bad enough you can't recognize you don't know what the F you're talking about, but to further embarrass yourself by continuing to argue it is just, well, you. Mickey for FEMA director - he's capable of watching TV!

[VABills]

I was agreeing with the latest sophmoric trend in stating the FEMA director is unqualified, albeit sarcastically. So personal insults are ok when you do it, but not anyone else - ok counsellor.

 

From FEMA's web site:

Under Secretary Brown has led Homeland Security’s response to more than 164 presidentially declared disasters and emergencies, including the 2003 Columbia Shuttle disaster and the California wildfires in 2003. In 2004, Mr. Brown led FEMA’s thousands of dedicated disaster workers during the most active hurricane season in over 100 years, as FEMA delivered aid more quickly and more efficiently than ever before.

 

Maybe he doesn't meet your standard for initial hire, but it sure sounds like he's had plenty of OJT. Having lived through the hurricanes in Florida last year, I can tell you FEMA's response was certainly appreciated here. I'd like to know where all the juvenile "he's not qualified" posts were then. I guess you weren't an expert on selecting FEMA directors last year, huh?

 

It's bad enough you can't recognize you don't know what the F you're talking about, but to further embarrass yourself by continuing to argue it is just, well, you. Mickey for FEMA director - he's capable of watching TV!

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I'm with you but the difference is, Florida took the initial action and the local towns as well to ensure minimal impart. The mayor in NO and the governor dropped the ball, and when it was obvious they were over their heads (pun intended) they started blaming everyone except themselves who ultimately is responsible for the initial reaction, and mobilizing their own guard and police forces.

[Terry Tate]

I'm with you but the difference is, Florida took the initial action and the local towns as well to ensure minimal impart.  The mayor in NO and the governor dropped the ball, and when it was obvious they were over their heads (pun intended) they started blaming everyone except themselves who ultimately is responsible for the initial reaction, and mobilizing their own guard and police forces.

No argument with that; Florida has had some practice at this.

 

I don't know how much coverage one particular aspect has been given. When we were hit by Charley, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne last year, the miles-long convoys of tree, power and phone trucks from every CONUS state in the union were something to see. Being at the scene and seeing the groups of 30-40 trucks and their crews from all over, along with all the Red Cross, FEMA, Salvation Army - here in your town, not some far away place on TV - it was just incredible. I was very much appreciative of all the efforts I saw; I don't recall anyone calling for the FEMA's director's resignation because he wasn't capable of watching TV.

 

I've seen a number of those convoys since Katrina hit, but this time they're Florida trucks heading out to help out our neighbors.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

We'd all be better off if that were true...

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Now THERE is class.

 

You limp-wrist-liberals are all alike. Talk about civility, then bring out the long knives.

[Mickey]

I was agreeing with the latest sophmoric trend in stating the FEMA director is unqualified, albeit sarcastically. So personal insults are ok when you do it, but not anyone else - ok counsellor.

 

From FEMA's web site:

Under Secretary Brown has led Homeland Security’s response to more than 164 presidentially declared disasters and emergencies, including the 2003 Columbia Shuttle disaster and the California wildfires in 2003. In 2004, Mr. Brown led FEMA’s thousands of dedicated disaster workers during the most active hurricane season in over 100 years, as FEMA delivered aid more quickly and more efficiently than ever before.

 

Maybe he doesn't meet your standard for initial hire, but it sure sounds like he's had plenty of OJT. Having lived through the hurricanes in Florida last year, I can tell you FEMA's response was certainly appreciated here. I'd like to know where all the juvenile "he's not qualified" posts were then. I guess you weren't an expert on selecting FEMA directors last year, huh?

 

It's bad enough you can't recognize you don't know what the F you're talking about, but to further embarrass yourself by continuing to argue it is just, well, you. Mickey for FEMA director - he's capable of watching TV!

430592[/snapback]

 

Thanks for establishing that FEMA director Michael Brown thinks that FEMA is doing a great job and that FEMA thinks its director is doing a fabulous job as well. Talk about a daisy chain.

 

I said he hired a guy with no experience in emergency services. True or false?

I said the guy he hired had prior experience running a Horse ASSociation, true or false?

I said the Horse ASSociation fired him, true or false?

I said James L. Witt was available and that Bush praised him, true or false?

I said that the press knew there were thousands stranded at the convention center before Brown did, true or false? (before you answer:Koppel-Brown; Soledad O'Brien-Brown; Zahn-Brown)

 

You are not even willing to suggest that there is even the slightest possibility that Bush did anything wrong, directly or indirectly, under any circumstances, are you?

 

George Bush didn't create this hurricane nor is it his fault that locals had their own share of screw ups. However, he did hire a man with no experience in emergency services when there were far more experienced people available and he did downgrade FEMA from a cabinet post folding it in to DHS. Further, there is no doubt that in the middle of this crisis, administration officials were saying things in public that were simply not true either intentionally or in ignorance of the facts. At the very least, these issues are worthy of public critique and analysis but you can't even tolerate that can you? You have to launch a rage filled insult campaign at anyone even suggesting that there were some problems worthy of legitimate inquiry.

 

Let me save you some time in drafting your reply, simpy cut and paste:

 

Bush=GOoD.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Thanks for establishing that FEMA director Michael Brown thinks that FEMA is doing a great job and that FEMA thinks its director is doing a fabulous job as well.  Talk about a daisy chain.

 

I said he hired a guy with no experience in emergency services.  True or false?

I said the guy he hired had prior experience running a Horse ASSociation, true or false?

I said the Horse ASSociation fired him, true or false?

I said James L. Witt was available and that Bush praised him, true or false?

I said that the press knew there were thousands stranded at the convention center before Brown did, true or false? (before you answer:Koppel-Brown; Soledad O'Brien-Brown; Zahn-Brown)

 

You are not even willing to suggest that there is even the slightest possibility that Bush did anything wrong, directly or indirectly, under any circumstances, are you?

 

George Bush didn't create this hurricane nor is it his fault that locals had their own share of screw ups.  However, he did hire a man with no experience in emergency services when there were far more experienced people available and he did downgrade FEMA from a cabinet post folding it in to DHS.  Further, there is no doubt that in the middle of this crisis, administration officials were saying things in public that were simply not true either intentionally or in ignorance of the facts.  At the very least, these issues are worthy of public critique and analysis but you can't even tolerate that can you?  You have to launch a rage filled insult campaign at anyone even suggesting that there were some problems worthy of legitimate inquiry.

 

Let me save you some time in drafting your reply, simpy cut and paste:

 

Bush=GOoD.

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Pardon me for getting involved in this stupid-ass conversation...but wasn't DHS created by Congressional fiat?

[Taro T]

George Bush didn't create this hurricane nor is it his fault that locals had their own share of screw ups.  However, he did hire a man with no experience in emergency services when there were far more experienced people available and he did downgrade FEMA from a cabinet post folding it in to DHS.  Further,

I have seen you post this on a few occasions. Could you please tell me when FEMA was cabinet level (my understanding is that it is an agency and not a department and its head would not be a member of the cabinet) and when it was reduced in stature? Was it part of the creation of the Homeland Security Department?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Dave.

[KRC]

I have seen you post this on a few occasions.  Could you please tell me when FEMA was cabinet level (my understanding is that it is an agency and not a department and its head would not be a member of the cabinet) and when it was reduced in stature?  Was it part of the creation of the Homeland Security Department?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Dave.

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It was elevated to a cabinet-level position in 1992. When DHS was formed, FEMA was tossed under that.

[VABills]

I have seen you post this on a few occasions.  Could you please tell me when FEMA was cabinet level (my understanding is that it is an agency and not a department and its head would not be a member of the cabinet) and when it was reduced in stature?  Was it part of the creation of the Homeland Security Department?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Dave.

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FEMA is an agency, that's what the A stands for. FEMA does not report directly to the president but through DHS. Prior to that it was an independant agency, but in the past actually was under HUD authority, until Jimmy Carter seperated it.

[Mickey]

Pardon me for getting involved in this stupid-ass conversation...but wasn't DHS created by Congressional fiat?

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First of all, this is not a stupid-ass conversation, it is an ass-stupid one, thank you very much.

 

As you know, presidential administrations often propose legislative initiatives and even draft them. They are then handed off to administration supporters in the House and Senate who propose them and try and get them passed with the administration involved every step of the way. In the end, it is signed into law by the President who could veto it if he really disagreed.

 

In this case, Bush created the White House Office of Homeland Security just nine days after the 9/11 attacks. Congress had no role in the creation of that office. In June of the following year, Bush proposed, in a nationally televised speech, the creation of DHS. Eventually, Tom Ridge who had been the head of DHS's predecessor, the WH Office of HS, was named by the President as the first head of the DHS. It was created by passage of the Homeland Security Act. Being that the Republican Party was in control of both the House and Senate and that Bush was and is the leader of that party, I think it is fair to say that he had a lot of control over what was in and what was out in regards to DHS.

 

It is up to the various investigations being proposed to ultimately figure out what went well and what went not so well in this disaster. I have no doubt that many people are going to have their feet held to the fire. What bothers me here is that you can't even suggest a mistake on the part of the administration in general or Bush in particular without drawing rabid responses.

 

I'm sure even Bush's closest advisors are able to recognize that hiring a fromer Horse club atty to head FEMA was maybe not the smartest presonnel move in the history of Presidential appointments. Suggest even that it is a legitimate avenue of inquiry here and out come the knives.

[KRC]

First of all, this is not a stupid-ass conversation, it is an ass-stupid one, thank you very much.

 

As you know, presidential administrations often propose legislative initiatives and even draft them.  They are then handed off to administration supporters in the House and Senate who propose them and try and get them passed with the administration involved every step of the way.  In the end, it is signed into law by the President who could veto it if he really disagreed. 

 

In this case, Bush created the White House Office of Homeland Security just nine days after the 9/11 attacks.  Congress had no role in the creation of that office.  In June of the following year, Bush proposed, in a nationally televised speech, the creation of DHS.  Eventually, Tom Ridge who had been the head of DHS's predecessor, the WH Office of HS, was named by the President as the first head of the DHS.  It was created by passage of the Homeland Security Act.  Being that the Republican Party was in control of both the House and Senate and that Bush was and is the leader of that party, I think it is fair to say that he had a lot of control over what was in and what was out in regards to DHS.

 

It is up to the various investigations being proposed to ultimately figure out what went well and what went not so well in this disaster.  I have no doubt that many people are going to have their feet held to the fire.  What bothers me here is that you can't even suggest a mistake on the part of the administration in general or Bush in particular without drawing rabid responses. 

 

I'm sure even Bush's closest advisors are able to recognize that hiring a fromer Horse club atty to head FEMA was maybe not the smartest presonnel move in the history of Presidential appointments.  Suggest even that it is a legitimate avenue of inquiry here and out come the knives.

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Didn't Bush oppose the creation of the Department of Homeland Security? It wasn't until he relented to Democratic pressure that the Department was created.

[Mickey]

I have seen you post this on a few occasions.  Could you please tell me when FEMA was cabinet level (my understanding is that it is an agency and not a department and its head would not be a member of the cabinet) and when it was reduced in stature?  Was it part of the creation of the Homeland Security Department?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Dave.

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Bill Clinton, in a departure from the norm, elevated FEMA to cabinet level post so that the head of FEMA was able to report directly to him. FEMA's response to Hurricane Andrew was widely criticized. This problem may have cost, according to some analysts, Bush his second term. This made FEMA a pretty hot issue at the start of Clinton's first term. Clinton's appointee, James Lee Witt, was the first FEMA director to have prior experience in emergency services having headed a state agency for emergency response for 4 years prior to his appointment. In contrast, Bush '41 had appointed an inexperienced buddy of John Sununu and put Marilyn Qayle on FEMA's board. In February 1996, Clinton elevated FEMA to cabinet level status: Witt

[Mickey]

Didn't Bush oppose the creation of the Department of Homeland Security? It wasn't until he relented to Democratic pressure that the Department was created.

431112[/snapback]

That's right, he was against it before he was for it and claimed credit for it only after he denounced it.

 

He created its predecessor on his own nine days after 9/11 and though he initially opposed the creation of DHS, he soon took the initiative and never looked back, proposing its creation in a nationally televised speech and ran with it from there.

Besides, I seem to recall that Bush had control of the House and maybe even the Senate then? I am not sure they were capable of mounting enough pressure to force anyone to relent.

 

I am not suggesting that the creation of DHS itself was a mistake, submerging FEMA into it which is just one of many apects of the creation of DHS is the issue that is going to be looked at in this context along with many other, more complex ones. Was it better to have FEMA at the cabinet level with direct access to the President or was it better to have it folded into DHS? These are questions that I think are reasonable ones to ponder at this point but apparently, just the thought that maybe mistakes were made and maybe they weren't all made by the mayor of NO are not tolerable by some here.

[KRC]

He created its predecessor on his own nine days after 9/11 and though he initially opposed the creation of DHS, he soon took the initiative and never looked back, proposing its creation in a nationally televised speech and ran with it from there.

 

I am not suggesting that the creation of DHS itself was a mistake, submerging FEMA into it which is just one of many apects of the creation of DHS is the issue that is going to be looked at in this context along with many other, more complex ones.  Was it better to have FEMA at the cabinet level with direct access to the President or was it better to have it folded into DHS?  These are questions that I think are reasonable ones to ponder at this point but apparently, just the thought that maybe mistakes were made and maybe they weren't all made by the mayor of NO are not tolerable by some here.

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Nice shot at the end. Perfect way to ruin a good post.

[Mickey]

Nice shot at the end. Perfect way to ruin a good post.

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That wasn't meant to target you, just commenting on the level of responses I have received as soon as I suggested that the hiring of Brown and demoting FEMA from the cabinet were legit issues to investigate.

[SilverNRed]

That wasn't meant to target you, just commenting on the level of responses I have received as soon as I suggested that the hiring of Brown and demoting FEMA from the cabinet were legit issues to investigate.

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I haven't read all this crap, but has anyone suggested that there are certain things not worth investigating? And why?

 

I'd be in favor of investigating everything.

 

The only problem is that there are a lot of newspapers that made their minds up a long time ago before investigating anything.

[TheMadCap]

I have no links, but I heard on the radio today that the Mayor of NO is giving all the rescue workers, firemen and police (that are left) 5 days in LV to unwind. Oh yeah, he asked FEMA to pay for it....

[IDBillzFan]

I have no links, but I heard on the radio today that the Mayor of NO is giving all the rescue workers, firemen and police (that are left) 5 days in LV to unwind. Oh yeah, he asked FEMA to pay for it....

431171[/snapback]

That's a very generous offer on his behalf. I just heard on CNN that he was able to get the message to the rescue workers and firemen, but had to develop a special message so all the police officers could here it over the PA system.

 

"Attention Wal-Mart Looters. FOr the next three minutes on Aisle 7 is Mayor Nagin's Blue Light Special; a five-day pass to Las Vegas. Your looting efforts need to be rewarded in a place that actually knows how to revel in debauchery without obvious corruption. And remember: What happens in Wal-Mart, stays in Wal-Mart. Thank you for looting at Wal-Mart."

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Bill Clinton, in a departure from the norm, elevated FEMA to cabinet level post so that the head of FEMA was able to report directly to him.  FEMA's response to Hurricane Andrew was widely criticized. 

431143[/snapback]

 

And FEMA's response was about twice as fast now as compared to Andrew...and they're taking even more crap. FEMA's public image would probably be better off if they moved far more slowly in the future.

 

Seriously, though...Clinton was probably right to have FEMA reporting directly to the president. There's been some supposition - with which I agree - that the response would have been faster in NO if the president had been able to directly kick some people's ass immediately. Supporting that is the fact that when the situation was taken over by a group that does report pretty much directly to the President (NORTHCOM), things started moving...but then, they may have started moving because resources had already been staging forward for three days and were set to arrive in-theater en masse anyway.

 

There's two or three top-shelf textbook-quality books that can be written about this whole situation. And a thousand other "It's <fill in the blank>'s fault!" media-frenzied books that will be written and read by a public who ignores all else...

[TheMadCap]

That's a very generous offer on his behalf. I just heard on CNN that he was able to get the message to the rescue workers and firemen, but had to develop a special message so all the police officers could here it over the PA system.

 

"Attention Wal-Mart Looters. FOr the next three minutes on Aisle 7 is Mayor Nagin's Blue Light Special; a five-day pass to Las Vegas. Your looting efforts need to be rewarded in a place that actually knows how to revel in debauchery without obvious corruption. And remember: What happens in Wal-Mart, stays in Wal-Mart.  Thank you for looting at Wal-Mart."

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Indeed. I think I would rather find/be with/bury my loved ones than go to Vegas and party. A nice gesture, but a bit premature...

 

 

PS. Do you think those two cretins will get fired for getting busted on camera looting?