SilverNRed Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 "Manning-up" and being responsible for one's inappropiate action is a serious issue? Wow... 429986[/snapback] Did you even see what he was responding to?
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Yes, it's the federal government's fault the levees broke. Okay, I can accept that...but just because the federal government = Bush now doesn't mean it's entirely Bush's fault. The budget for that work, as I recall, has been cut by [i[not only[/i] Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II, but by a great many hundreds (maybe even a couple thousand) Congresscritters. So don't hand me that "Bush bad" crap. Bush is an idiot, buy laying this at his feet is pure cop-out for ignoring the systemic problems of the decision-making at all levels over the past four decades that caused this mess to occur. Ultimately this stupid partisanship simply guarantees the problem will never get fixed. At this point, I'm willing to see a major city get flooded out every month until this country learns a very simple and basic lesson: political theory takes a back seat to physical reality, because Mother Nature in all her forms - be it a hurricane, 110-story building collapses, O-rings on SRBs - is fundamentally non-partisan and will kick your ass if you play this partisan BS for too long. 430004[/snapback] I couldn't agree more. To see one politician, no matter who it is... skate on this issue is wrong. I would be calling for Clinton's head. It has been going on too long. If you want not believe me, fine... Call me a liar, fine... It is just that the people on this board haven't known me that long... What I stand for and who I am. You can dispute that if you want. We shouldn't be playing games of this nature politically. If there is a God... It happened on GWB's watch. I say this a truly selfish way... It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Just because I don't feel sorry for him, at any other time if it happened to a president that I respected more I would still carry the same tune. I might feel more compassion though. You can't play political football with nature. We learned it in the Everglades and now in New Orleans. What is next?
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Did you even see what he was responding to? 430040[/snapback] Yes... I took it as RI apologizing for something mean spirited he said. Unless something was edited... I made my judgement on that. He still said he was wrong. He may have issues... Don't we all... The first part to resolving some of them is to acknowledge them. You can probably tell that I am deeply disturbed by this whole event and coming clean with people... Calling it like it is. ? If my questioning tone is irking others around here than a certain person (which I am probably on ignore anyway) please feel free to say... I have been trying to tone it down.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Thats really a stupid question. The answer is, nobody is above the law, including people who ask stupid questions. 430031[/snapback] Thanks... I have been told that my whole life!
BadDad Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 You're right. Bush should have waved his Presidential Magic Wand and had things taken care of in less than an hour. That's usually how unprecedented natural disasters play out. Bush showed really bad leadership when he finally convinced the Governor of LA to order the mandatory evacuation and even worse leadership when he didn't go door to door to make sure everyone actually left. 429796[/snapback] Keep drinking the cool-aid and eating the hotpockets, Mr. Bushes has done all that he could have as a matter of fact he was super human, he walked on water today...
Taro T Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 Keep drinking the cool-aid and eating the hotpockets, Mr. Bushes has done all that he could have as a matter of fact he was super human, he walked on water today... 430047[/snapback] Yeah, but all the media outlets (except Fox and the WSJ) lead with the headline: "BUSH CAN'T SWIM!". Dave.
erynthered Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 Keep drinking the cool-aid and eating the hotpockets, Mr. Bushes has done all that he could have as a matter of fact he was super human, he walked on water today... 430047[/snapback] You've changed. The anger is stronger now. Luke would be disappointed.....
KD in CA Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 You've changed. The anger is stronger now. Luke would be disappointed..... 430051[/snapback] He's giving in to the dark side. I bet he listens to Jeanne Garafalo's show now.
Mickey Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 So let me get this right. If he doesn't bother to go to N.O., he is uncaring and ignoring the poor victims and is probably a racist too. But if he does go, it's just for 'photo ops'. Got it.No one gets a pass. If the goal is to assign blame, than there are plenty of people to put on that list. But putting Bush on the top of that list is partisan nonsense. I don't know if Brown is qualified or not or if he deserves to be fired or not. If he does, Bush should do so and he is wrong if he doesn’t. But I do know that government bureaucracy sucks. Left wingers have made it nearly impossible to fire incompetent employees, especially in government, so you could put Winston Churchill in charge of FEMA, and it's still going to be a bureaucratic mess full of incompetent people and it’s still going to take some time to mobilize an operation of this magnitude. And that is why the local and state authorities are the best first responders. Local officials had primary responsibility here, before and after the storm. And let's not forget the tens of thousands of able bodied people (including my sister in law) who blew off the mandatory evacuation to ride out the storm. They might have saved a hell of a lot more of the elderly and infirmed if rescuers weren't afraid for their lives for the first four days. Or should we have had troops standing by in case of civil unrest (and then had the media blow up the race angle for all it was worth)? 430021[/snapback] No need to hire Winston Churchill. James Lee Witt, who even Bush praised during a debate with Gore, did a great job at FEMA as its director under Clinton. Keeping him would have been the smart move. Moreover, FEMA was made a cabinet position under Clinton. Bush demoted FEMA by folding it into Homeland Security and then hiring not one but two directors with no qualifications. Those are decisions he made and people have a right to be critical of them if they believe they made this situation worse than it would have otherwise been. I'm sure there were local foul ups and mistakes as well but in this thread we are talking about Bush and every criticism of him in this thread has been immediately attacked with little or no consideration of even the slightest possibility that he might have made a mistake. Going to the scene and trying to get butts moving in the right direction doesn't require a photo op with an aide worker. I thought this was the President that didn't govern by focus groups and polls, that cared about substance, not appearances? Who cares if people would be critical of him or not if he worked to get things done rather than pose for photos? Too bad. Sometimes doing the right thing doesn't get you good press. What is really the thing that bothers me the most is that these guys were all over the tube (Chertoff and Brown) spinning and spinning while people were dying and worse, they got caught saying things what were either bold faced lies or incredible blunders. Bush supporters are so quick to defend and justify his every move that I don't think they realize just how bad his credibility is when so much of this kind of thing keeps seeping out of his administration. When you have key officials saying things that every one who has cable television knows is total BS, it takes a toll.
Terry Tate Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 Bush should've hired someone with experience in directing a federal government organization that has dealt with a cat 4 hurricance followed by a levee break and flood of an entire city. Idiot.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 I would be calling for Clinton's head. It has been going on too long. If you want not believe me, fine... Call me a liar, fine... It is just that the people on this board haven't known me that long... What I stand for and who I am. 430044[/snapback] I think that's where we differ. I wouldn't be calling for Clinton's head anymore than I'm calling for Bush's. The problem's far bigger than one person, even the president. The only person's head I'm calling for is Nagin's. I mean, for Christ's sake, the New Orleans emergency mitigation plan dated April of this year actually says "Future plans include the creation of a post-disaster plan..." Literally, a no-sh-- direct quote.
SilverNRed Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 I think that's where we differ. I wouldn't be calling for Clinton's head anymore than I'm calling for Bush's. The problem's far bigger than one person, even the president. The only person's head I'm calling for is Nagin's. I mean, for Christ's sake, the New Orleans emergency mitigation plan dated April of this year actually says "Future plans include the creation of a post-disaster plan..." Literally, a no-sh-- direct quote. 430220[/snapback] If thousands of people weren't dead right now, I'd be laughing my ass off at that.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 I think that's where we differ. I wouldn't be calling for Clinton's head anymore than I'm calling for Bush's. The problem's far bigger than one person, even the president. The only person's head I'm calling for is Nagin's. I mean, for Christ's sake, the New Orleans emergency mitigation plan dated April of this year actually says "Future plans include the creation of a post-disaster plan..." Literally, a no-sh-- direct quote. 430220[/snapback] What do you expect them to do? Seems like nobody is bringing up Dan's article?
Mickey Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 Bush should've hired someone with experience in directing a federal government organization that has dealt with a cat 4 hurricance followed by a levee break and flood of an entire city. Idiot. 430201[/snapback] Right, there has never been a flood before. This is the first one ever so it wouldn't have mattered if it was handled by someone with years of experience in emergency services or by a guy who worked for the International Arabian Horse Association who, by the way, fired him. If Bush at least hired someone capable of watching televison, FEMA would have known that there were thousands of people at the convention center before Ted Koppel told them. It's bad enough that you can't seem to make an intelligent point but then to embarass yourself further by topping it off with personal insults is just classic.
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted September 6, 2005 Author Posted September 6, 2005 If Bush wanted to give his buddies jobs, he should have made them Ambassadors to some pissant countries instead of running FEMA. Brown probably was more qualified to run the stables at the Crawford Ranch than to head FEMA. I wonder who the lawyer was who handled his real estate closing on the ranch. He's probably on the short list for the Supreme Court.
KRC Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 "Manning-up" and being responsible for one's inappropiate action is a serious issue? Wow... 429986[/snapback] No, saying something so completely and utterly ignorant and then blaming conservatives for his statements is why he has "serious issues."
Dan Gross Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 If Bush wanted to give his buddies jobs, he should have made them Ambassadors to some pissant countries instead of running FEMA. Brown probably was more qualified to run the stables at the Crawford Ranch than to head FEMA. I wonder who the lawyer was who handled his real estate closing on the ranch. He's probably on the short list for the Supreme Court. 430389[/snapback] Actually, Brown isn't a "Bush buddy," he's a "buddy of a buddy." He's the former college roommate of his predecessor at FEMA (who was Bush's original campaign manager). And yes Brown would be well suited to run the stables, as his previous job was commish of an Arabian horse show association...from which he resigned under pressure. At least that's what the lying media says...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 I admit, it does sound like Bush hired the wrong men for the job and he should take some serious heat for it. FEMA should be headed by ex-military used to giving orders and having them obeyed. Hell, it should be quasi-military in nature anyway, seeing how every natural disaster requires calling in the troops.
VABills Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 Bush should read this before he presents the Medal of Honor to the FEMA bureacrats. Times-Picayune of New Orleans editorial 429637[/snapback] civilians cannot be awarded the MOH.
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted September 6, 2005 Author Posted September 6, 2005 I admit, it does sound like Bush hired the wrong men for the job and he should take some serious heat for it. FEMA should be headed by ex-military used to giving orders and having them obeyed. Hell, it should be quasi-military in nature anyway, seeing how every natural disaster requires calling in the troops. 430534[/snapback] I agree with you. We need someone who can take command of the situation and get things done. At the same time, the command structure should be ready to deal with the aftermath of storms, floods, and terrorist acts. There needs to be plans in place for all areas of the country as far as assets and troops that can be commandeered to handle large-scale emergencies. This would include trauma hospitals, shelters, food and water, search and rescue, etc. Hopefully, we will learn from this and get the right people to head up FEMA and develop better plans before the next disaster.
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