KD in CA Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Another analogy: At my work we have all kinds of responsibilites. Each shift has something to do from running the place to cleaning the place. We all know our responsibilites and what our job is. So knowing this... If it is midnight's job to get the place in order and clean up after the two other shifts, that is YOUR JOB. So... If afternoons and days leaves the place one effing discourteous mess and I am on midnights... Do I clean it up? The answer is a resounding YES! It is still my job, maybe not my mess but, still my job! Gee, according to some people here, you should have just sat on your ass and blamed the CEO for being home in bed at midnight instead of at the plant pushing a broom.
erynthered Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 I love the way the Bush apologists all line up to blame it on the locals. 429885[/snapback] I love the way the Bush basher all line up to blame the feds. You're an idiot.
Chef Jim Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 We'd all be better off if that were true... 429902[/snapback] WTF!!!???
RI Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 WTF!!!??? 429910[/snapback] Yeah, it was completely inappropriate (as are most of his comments, BTW) but sometimes the right wing circle jerk that this board has turned into causes me to post without resorting to coherant thought. An action that most of you "Compasionate Conservatives" should understand...
KRC Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Yeah, it was completely inappropriate (as are most of his comments, BTW) but sometimes the right wing circle jerk that this board has turned into causes me to post without resorting to coherant thought. An action that most of you "Compasionate Conservatives" should understand... 429915[/snapback] You have serious issues.
KD in CA Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 I love the way the Bush apologists all line up to blame it on the locals. Why do we have a FEMA if local governments are supposed to handle all disasters? Did Nagin screw up? Absolutely! Did Blanco screw up? Absolutely! But we expect the federal government to have the most assets at its disposal and to be the "John Wayne dude" who hops off of the chopper and gets everyone's ass in gear. It is clear that Michael Brown was not the "John Wayne dude". For him not to be aware of the situation at the Convention Center until Thursday is ludicrous. You would think that the "command center" would at least have a tv to see the problems that news reporters were able to find and have no problem getting to. We already knew that Bush was not the "John Wayne dude", but for him not to end his vacation until Wednesday shows how out of touch he is. On 9/11, it only took him 7 minutes to extricate himself from reading nursery rhymes at the elementary school. This time it took 2 days to get him back to work. Oh wait, he was hard at work drumming up support for the war in Iraq at some California military base when the sh-- was hitting the fan. Wouldn't want the choir to miss out on that sermon. 429885[/snapback] Right. Because the entire federal government doesn't make a move unless the President is issuing specific orders while sitting in the Oval Office. You guys are really way too desperate. Doesn't it get old trying to blame every problem on the planet on Bush? I guess not. It's like a hobby for some of you. Oh well, whatever floats your boat.
SilverNRed Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Reminds me of the time you said you wished you were my mother so you could have aborted me. We'd all be better off if that were true... 429902[/snapback] There goes your Christmas card this year, tough guy...... And I don't know if ALL of you would be better off had I been aborted by blzrul back in 1980. Maybe a couple people, but definitely not everyone. Maybe after the NO and Supreme Court things blow over, we'll have a PPP poll to see how many people wish I had been aborted. Or maybe SkyNet could send a cyborg back in time to kill my mom before she gives birth to me.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Isn't that what's happening? Nagin and Blanco are the ones passing the blame and Bush and co. are the ones taking responsibility even when they don't have to. The Feds are the only ones not pointing fingers at this point and they probably have the least to be sorry for. 429897[/snapback] People died. A little late? After somebody slipped on the floor... Got hurt or died. It is a question of service. I used the cavalry response earlier. Ya, they got their but... Again... Not that they were not trying hard. They were.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Isn't that what's happening? Nagin and Blanco are the ones passing the blame and Bush and co. are the ones taking responsibility even when they don't have to. The Feds are the only ones not pointing fingers at this point and they probably have the least to be sorry for. 429897[/snapback] They are not pointing fingers... I wonder why?
Mickey Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Right. Because the entire federal government doesn't make a move unless the President is issuing specific orders while sitting in the Oval Office. You guys are really way too desperate. Doesn't it get old trying to blame every problem on the planet on Bush? I guess not. It's like a hobby for some of you. Oh well, whatever floats your boat. 429922[/snapback] George Bush isn't to blame for a category 4 hurricane but as long as he is going to troll for photo ops hugging aid workers then he has to take the undeserved bad along with the undeserved good. There are specific actions that are directly his fault. Can we blame him for appointing Michael Brown to be head of FEMA when his only apparent qualification is having been fired as general counsel for the International Arabian Horse Association or does he get a partisan pass from you on that one as well? The fact that neither Brown nor Chertoff knew there were thousands of helpless people at the convention center when to see that all you had to do was turn on your TV is just mind boggling. The man who can fire those idiots is the guy who hired them, the President. If Bush isn't going to fire them then he will rightly have to take responsibity for their so far abominable performance.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Gee, according to some people here, you should have just sat on your ass and blamed the CEO for being home in bed at midnight instead of at the plant pushing a broom. 429906[/snapback] I don't think that is what they are saying. He could have called an underling and said get this squared away? I am saying state and local government were overwhelmed... Ya, probably because their plan (if you want to call it that) was so effed up... Everybody is to blame. Once again I BLAME THE US GOVERNMENT more because they were the last line of defense. They were the establishment (especially the Corps). Through the years they pushed their own agenda's over stop-gap ideas. Who is to fault for that? Also, saying things like "Hope we don't get a cat 4/5 storm in 30 years till we finish." NOLA and La is to blame because they should have said shut the eff up, this is our lives you are dealing with! They are wrong for capitulating with the US and accepted the federal take on it was acceptable.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 I love the way the Bush basher all line up to blame the feds. You're an idiot. 429907[/snapback] So you think the feds and Corps should go scott-free?
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 How much easier it is to access in 2005 now that there are interstates and bridges, airports and helipads, cruise ships, barges, buses and diesel-powered trucks. !@#$ING stupid. How much easier is it to access when the interstates, bridges, airports and helipads, buses and diesel-powered trucks aren't flooded out. What't the point of that editorial? Bush is responsible for the flooding????
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 You have serious issues. 429918[/snapback] "Manning-up" and being responsible for one's inappropiate action is a serious issue? Wow...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 !@#$ING stupid. How much easier is it to access when the interstates, bridges, airports and helipads, buses and diesel-powered trucks aren't flooded out. What't the point of that editorial? Bush is responsible for the flooding???? 429984[/snapback] Come on CTM, you know better than this? I think everybody knows my point now and it is getting tiring. But, I am not releasing blame through the chain. The federal gov't so happens to be the top dog... Who are they gonna blame? Comes with the territory.
finknottle Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 George Bush isn't to blame for a category 4 hurricane but as long as he is going to troll for photo ops hugging aid workers then he has to take the undeserved bad along with the undeserved good. There are specific actions that are directly his fault. Can we blame him for appointing Michael Brown to be head of FEMA when his only apparent qualification is having been fired as general counsel for the International Arabian Horse Association or does he get a partisan pass from you on that one as well? The fact that neither Brown nor Chertoff knew there were thousands of helpless people at the convention center when to see that all you had to do was turn on your TV is just mind boggling. The man who can fire those idiots is the guy who hired them, the President. If Bush isn't going to fire them then he will rightly have to take responsibity for their so far abominable performance. 429969[/snapback] I agree with this completely. I havn't shied away from saying 'screw NO, they got what they deserved, rebuilding it is not our problem,' but this knee-jerk reaction of defending without question Bush's actions as CiC is nothing short of disgusting. The mayor's failure to - I guess - force every school bus driver to work during the buildup to a major storm, work which is clearly not part of their job description, and presumably force people out of their homes before the storm hits, all without legal authority since of course the storm hadn't hit yet, yeah I suppose he can be criticized for that, and winding up with a flooded fleet of school buses. But let's not forget that this is something like the 3rd time in 10 years that evacuation was recommended, and the other times the storm missed the city. But the idea that his failure automatically gives the federal government a pass on its performance, where FEMA is operating under legal authorities intended precisely for this kind of scenario, is ludicrous.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 Come on CTM, you know better than this? I think everybody knows my point now and it is getting tiring. But, I am not releasing blame through the chain. The federal gov't so happens to be the top dog... Who are they gonna blame? Comes with the territory. 429990[/snapback] Yes, it's the federal government's fault the levees broke. Okay, I can accept that...but just because the federal government = Bush now doesn't mean it's entirely Bush's fault. The budget for that work, as I recall, has been cut by [i[not only[/i] Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II, but by a great many hundreds (maybe even a couple thousand) Congresscritters. So don't hand me that "Bush bad" crap. Bush is an idiot, buy laying this at his feet is pure cop-out for ignoring the systemic problems of the decision-making at all levels over the past four decades that caused this mess to occur. Ultimately this stupid partisanship simply guarantees the problem will never get fixed. At this point, I'm willing to see a major city get flooded out every month until this country learns a very simple and basic lesson: political theory takes a back seat to physical reality, because Mother Nature in all her forms - be it a hurricane, 110-story building collapses, O-rings on SRBs - is fundamentally non-partisan and will kick your ass if you play this partisan BS for too long.
KD in CA Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 George Bush isn't to blame for a category 4 hurricane but as long as he is going to troll for photo ops hugging aid workers then he has to take the undeserved bad along with the undeserved good. So let me get this right. If he doesn't bother to go to N.O., he is uncaring and ignoring the poor victims and is probably a racist too. But if he does go, it's just for 'photo ops'. Got it. There are specific actions that are directly his fault. Can we blame him for appointing Michael Brown to be head of FEMA when his only apparent qualification is having been fired as general counsel for the International Arabian Horse Association or does he get a partisan pass from you on that one as well? The fact that neither Brown nor Chertoff knew there were thousands of helpless people at the convention center when to see that all you had to do was turn on your TV is just mind boggling. The man who can fire those idiots is the guy who hired them, the President. If Bush isn't going to fire them then he will rightly have to take responsibity for their so far abominable performance. 429969[/snapback] No one gets a pass. If the goal is to assign blame, than there are plenty of people to put on that list. But putting Bush on the top of that list is partisan nonsense. I don't know if Brown is qualified or not or if he deserves to be fired or not. If he does, Bush should do so and he is wrong if he doesn’t. But I do know that government bureaucracy sucks. Left wingers have made it nearly impossible to fire incompetent employees, especially in government, so you could put Winston Churchill in charge of FEMA, and it's still going to be a bureaucratic mess full of incompetent people and it’s still going to take some time to mobilize an operation of this magnitude. And that is why the local and state authorities are the best first responders. Local officials had primary responsibility here, before and after the storm. And let's not forget the tens of thousands of able bodied people (including my sister in law) who blew off the mandatory evacuation to ride out the storm. They might have saved a hell of a lot more of the elderly and infirmed if rescuers weren't afraid for their lives for the first four days. Or should we have had troops standing by in case of civil unrest (and then had the media blow up the race angle for all it was worth)?
erynthered Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 So you think the feds and Corps should go scott-free? 429981[/snapback] Thats really a stupid question. The answer is, nobody is above the law, including people who ask stupid questions.
SilverNRed Posted September 5, 2005 Posted September 5, 2005 They are not pointing fingers... I wonder why? 429960[/snapback] Probably because they have some sense of class and responsibility. Let the bloggers point out Mayor Nagin's fleet of underwater buses or Governor Blanco's hesitance to call for the evacuation of the city. The Feds and the administration are busy getting things done. After the fact, Nagin is busy trying to convince everyone that it's not his fault and that they should still vote for him next time around.
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