IDBillzFan Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 ...but there are times when the situation calls for something beyond personal responsibility... 431034[/snapback] And that something is called local government with a plan.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 And that something is called local government with a plan. 431139[/snapback] And when whatever feeble plan they have becomes overwhelmed? What kind of plan do you have for flooding up to the eaves... Besides screaming for help? Maybe you can suggest one that wasn't already shot down by the federal government in the past? Maybe you could suggest one that is favorable to the US federal goverment and their special interests and agenda? Now couple that plan to a scenario that is straight out of The Drowning Pool? Now do understand why the "didn't" have a plan? More Retatta please!
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 And when whatever feeble plan they have becomes overwhelmed? What kind of plan do you have for flooding up to the eaves... Besides screaming for help? 431178[/snapback] A planned request for help, maybe? I have no problem with the idea that the federal government in extreme situations should be called upon to help municipalities...but the key phrase there is "be called upon". What was New Orleans' plan? "Uhhh...we'll come up with one later, but right now we expect to be on our own for a week until the feds pull our nuts out of the fire." Basically, it's the difference between screaming for help and planning for help. Apparently most people don't recognize that the feds aren't supposed to just go in and start cleaning sh-- up when it hits the fan...they're supposed to look to local authorities with a greater knowledge of local conditions for the framework to guide them. How the hell are they supposed to do that when the municipal emergency plan is "When confused or when in doubt: run in circles, scream and shout!"?
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 A planned request for help, maybe? I have no problem with the idea that the federal government in extreme situations should be called upon to help municipalities...but the key phrase there is "be called upon". What was New Orleans' plan? "Uhhh...we'll come up with one later, but right now we expect to be on our own for a week until the feds pull our nuts out of the fire." Basically, it's the difference between screaming for help and planning for help. Apparently most people don't recognize that the feds aren't supposed to just go in and start cleaning sh-- up when it hits the fan...they're supposed to look to local authorities with a greater knowledge of local conditions for the framework to guide them. How the hell are they supposed to do that when the municipal emergency plan is "When confused or when in doubt: run in circles, scream and shout!"? 431217[/snapback] I agree with you. NOLA was a "special case." I know this sounds lame though. Here we are railing against special interests and in the same breath making NOLA "special." I look at it like you break it, you own it. More damage has been done to that town by the Corps than you can imagine. I am still waiting for replies to Dan's article. (Maybe somebody replied... I haven't check yet). Why has the Corps been against anyhting but their own canals/navigation/levee plans? Somebody had a good quote about NOLA being "manic." It is so true. Yet, all we want to do is talk about Retatta. I really think the one crowd here that calls the others the HotPocket crowd take a look at itself. I am open for debate
IDBillzFan Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 And when whatever feeble plan they have becomes overwhelmed? What kind of plan do you have for flooding up to the eaves... Besides screaming for help? Maybe you can suggest one that wasn't already shot down by the federal government in the past? Maybe you could suggest one that is favorable to the US federal goverment and their special interests and agenda? Now couple that plan to a scenario that is straight out of The Drowning Pool? Now do understand why the "didn't" have a plan? More Retatta please! 431178[/snapback] Oh, please. It doesn't take away from the fact that it was, in your words, A FEEBLE PLAN! Now the government is supposed to stand around saying "Gee, those idiots in NO don't have a good plan for a disaster. We better start printing more money and coming up with excuses so when thousands of people die at their hands we can cover their asses." ANY plan would have been better than the schoolyard play drawn up in the dirt by the local officials and its the local officials who should be held completely and totally accountable for this murderous debacle.
SilverNRed Posted September 6, 2005 Posted September 6, 2005 Oh, please. It doesn't take away from the fact that it was, in your words, A FEEBLE PLAN! Now the government is supposed to stand around saying "Gee, those idiots in NO don't have a good plan for a disaster. We better start printing more money and coming up with excuses so when thousands of people die at their hands we can cover their asses." ANY plan would have been better than the schoolyard play drawn up in the dirt by the local officials and its the local officials who should be held completely and totally accountable for this murderous debacle. 431269[/snapback] Don't forget that Gov. Blanco needed those extra 24 hours to make a decision after everything was already going to hell. At least, that's according to Mayor Nagin, who strikes me as the type of politician who would gladly say anything to cover his own ass.
LabattBlue Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 ANY plan would have been better than the schoolyard play drawn up in the dirt by the local officials and its the local officials who should be held completely and totally accountable for this murderous debacle. 431269[/snapback] LA...I agree 100%. Since this happened, the mayor has done nothing but piss and moan about how EVERYBODY ELSE is f**ing up, but not once talking about his own inadequacies as mayor of the city of New Orleans.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 You guys really, REALLY don't realize how much power the USACE wields. Even being slashed to pieces.
Terry Tate Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 'Some people became animals,' Vasilioas Tryphonas said Sunday morning as he sipped a hot beer in Johnny White's Sports Bar on Bourbon Street. 'We became more civilized.' Nobody became anything, Mr. Tryphonas. You were already civilized, and they were already animals. The hurricane removed the stick frames, and exposed foundations.
aussiew Posted September 7, 2005 Posted September 7, 2005 ANY plan would have been better than the schoolyard play drawn up in the dirt by the local officials and its the local officials who should be held completely and totally accountable for this murderous debacle. Exactly - I was in NO on that Saturday and I see it this way as well. The mandatory evacuation order came AFTER: 1. Almost all gas stations in the city were closed 2. All but one airline had cancelled their Sunday flights out of New Orleans. Why did Delta cancel all their flights after 2pm on Saturday - a full 50 hours before the storm was due? Then, why did AA cancel all flights after 7:15am on Sunday morning - 24 hours before the storm? etc. etc. The airline's decisions to start canceling so early caused thousands of tourists to be stranded. 3. All but one rental car agency had closed their facilities - their employees went home to make plans to evacuate. 4. Most of the city buses had stopped running - again, their employees had gone home to deal with their own families. The local officials did a great job of standing in front of TV cameras telling people to leave the city. But there was NO DAMN PLAN to offer any method of conveyance to the tourists or the poor. Emergency plans must come from the local level first.
KD in CA Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 I think most reasonable people agree that the Federal gov't was at least 24 hours late in responding to Katrina. If you want to buy into the "Intellectual Activist's" theory, you have to know at a personal level the status of the people commiting the crimes, and how that relates to welfare. Otherwise, it's just speculation. 430610[/snapback] Who exactly are these "reasonable people" and what support do you have for that claim? My sister in law was rescued from a flooded section of the city within 48 hours of the storm hitting, so no, the federal government wasn't 24 hours late. She also saw the crimes being committed and who was doing it. As did anyone who was watching CNN as they interviewed looters coming out of the sneaker stores. Any 'reasonable people' will certainly agree on who was committing the crimes.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 Exactly - I was in NO on that Saturday and I see it this way as well. The mandatory evacuation order came AFTER: 1. Almost all gas stations in the city were closed 2. All but one airline had cancelled their Sunday flights out of New Orleans. Why did Delta cancel all their flights after 2pm on Saturday - a full 50 hours before the storm was due? Then, why did AA cancel all flights after 7:15am on Sunday morning - 24 hours before the storm? etc. etc. The airline's decisions to start canceling so early caused thousands of tourists to be stranded. 3. All but one rental car agency had closed their facilities - their employees went home to make plans to evacuate. 4. Most of the city buses had stopped running - again, their employees had gone home to deal with their own families. The local officials did a great job of standing in front of TV cameras telling people to leave the city. But there was NO DAMN PLAN to offer any method of conveyance to the tourists or the poor. Emergency plans must come from the local level first. 432169[/snapback] I am not trying to slam you Aussie... You forget this is America... We only help AFTER the tragedy... Before the crisis, it will cost you! What you say appears true. Another conundrum. A riddle that appears to be valid one way only to come up invalid all other ways. Here is a plan... Why didn't they just over-build the levees? Can the local authorites tell Delta to fly, rental car agencies to open, and gas stations to sell gas? I agree about the bus thing... Then... Anything would have been better... Even if they would have put the buses loaded on a gridlocked interstate trying to get out before the storm. When the storm hit... At least all the bodies would have been in close proximity. The ones (buses) that didn't get hit by the storm could have driven around in circles until they pumped out NO. (Sean Penn take note!!) Just as you can tell Delta to fly, gas stations to sell gas, and rental car agencies to stay open... You can surely tell some other area in some other state to take your 100,000k residents. Just call it the "NOLA Magical Mystery Tour." Side note... People call a PFD (personal floatation device) a "life-jacket"... I disagree, it is a PFD, it is not necessarily going to save your life. The buses were exactly that.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 Who exactly are these "reasonable people" and what support do you have for that claim? My sister in law was rescued from a flooded section of the city within 48 hours of the storm hitting, so no, the federal government wasn't 24 hours late. She also saw the crimes being committed and who was doing it. As did anyone who was watching CNN as they interviewed looters coming out of the sneaker stores. Any 'reasonable people' will certainly agree on who was committing the crimes. 433536[/snapback] What are you trying to say here? Your sister-in-law probably had special priority status? Who? The looters? The rapists? Etc... And of course as a reansonable person would do, she saw what was going on and ran the other way.
KD in CA Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 Your sister-in-law probably had special priority status? Well, clearly. She's white. And of course as a reansonable person would do, she saw what was going on and ran the other way. 433600[/snapback] Despite the very bad decision her group made to ride out the storm, afterwards they did do what a reasonable person should have done: They took some responsibility for their own situation and looked for a way out. So despite being in a building surrounded by 4' of water, by Wednesday AM, they made their way to a spot where helicopters picked them up and were flown to busses so they could get out of the city. I suppose it helped their cause that they didn't stop to loot Foot Locker, rape anyone or shoot at their rescuers.
BRH Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 Y'all who are slamming the local government folks can have fun reading this article about the woeful incompetent who sits right at the top of FEMA. Username and password are both the same (lifted from bugmenot): "digital" Staggering. Just staggering.
Dan Gross Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 The buses were exactly that. 433572[/snapback] The point is not whether the gov't could have ordered airlines and rental companies re-opened, but rather why wait until airports,etc were already closed to give the mandatory evacuation order? And as far as the buses not being able to get out, how many people were killed in their vehicles in this gridlock you said was going on when the storm hit? And again, you do the mandatory evacuation sooner, you have more time to move...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 Y'all who are slamming the local government folks can have fun reading this article about the woeful incompetent who sits right at the top of FEMA. Username and password are both the same (lifted from bugmenot): "digital" Staggering. Just staggering. 433781[/snapback] Cut and paste from an earlier post... And why weren't you bitching about this administration's handling of FEMA and appointment of Brown earlier? Probably because you've conveniently forgotten that FEMA and its current director received high marks during last year's hurricane season.
BRH Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 Cut and paste from an earlier post... And why weren't you bitching about this administration's handling of FEMA and appointment of Brown earlier? Probably because you've conveniently forgotten that FEMA and its current director received high marks during last year's hurricane season. 433949[/snapback] FEMA and its current director received high marks last year because the brunt of the hurricane season hit Florida. I'll take "Who's the Governor of Florida" for $200, Alex.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 FEMA and its current director received high marks last year because the brunt of the hurricane season hit Florida. I'll take "Who's the Governor of Florida" for $200, Alex. 433950[/snapback] Yeah. It probably has nothing to do with Florida, being hit in an average year by more hurricanes than New Orleans sees in a quarter-century, being more prepared.
erynthered Posted September 8, 2005 Posted September 8, 2005 Yeah. It probably has nothing to do with Florida, being hit in an average year by more hurricanes than New Orleans sees in a quarter-century, being more prepared. 433972[/snapback] Na, dont ask us here in Florida how to execute local and state hurricaane plans. Ask FEMA or the RED Cross, maybe even the Feds how Florida should act in an emergency sitution. They'll know better than us. And if they dont, we'll blame them anyway.
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