Great FEMA article on CNN....

[slothrop]

It is the Department of Homeland Security's job, which FEMA is now a part of, to coordinate aomong federal, state and local agencies in situations like this.

 

So if someone says its the city's fault, or state's fault, or another person says its FEMA's fault - I think they are all right, but the coordination and communication of these bodies was supposed to be facilitated by Homeland Security.

 

That department FAILED MISERABLY in this effort. This agency was suppossed to fix the problems we saw in 9/11. I think it is fair to say we are seeing the same problems of miuscommunication and lack of coordination but worse.

[Ghost of BiB]

So it's not FEMA's job to say "hey we did this study that shows a category 3 will devastate your area, that the plans you have in place are inadequate, and you should be doing this instead?"

 

My only point is if they new a category 3 was going to be so terrible, then surely they understood how severe things were going to get.  Yes I can say that the NO Mayor and LA Governor did not do particularly good jobs either, but FEMA new what they were doing and had planned. You would think that they would be more prepared to handle things themselves considering what they knew was in place.

428197[/snapback]

 

Point one. I think there is every chance, more like a probability that this took place. Do you think a study based on New Orleans was conducted without any interaction from New Orleans?

 

Point two. I say again. Things are done in a sequence. The first step in the sequence is for the local authorities to have their stuff together. Maybe I'm misreading, but your phrasing sounds like the federal government has to be eternally prepared and funded to accomodate whatever mistakes are made by everyone else. If that be the case, why make anyone less than Washington be responsible for anything? Perhaps all coastal cities should ignore any type of disaster planning, we can open another branch of government with the several thousands of people it would take to do nothing but plan and fund mitigation efforts. I can see a few billion here.

 

Should the federal government survey every possible natural disaster situation and stockpile every possible supply and hire people to cover every possible eventuality on standby?

[SilverNRed]

Should the federal government survey every possible natural disaster situation and stockpile every possible supply and hire people to cover every possible eventuality on standby?

428218[/snapback]

People can't grasp the concept that the government is not an all-powerful entity that can solve problems for everyone in less than a day.

 

Carol Moseley Braun was just on CNN complaining that the troops brought in are being too "heavy-handed." So there's no way to get things right, apparently.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Should the federal government survey every possible natural disaster situation and stockpile every possible supply and hire people to cover every possible eventuality on standby?

428218[/snapback]

 

Yes, and yes.

 

Because people are !@#$ing stupid and can't differentiate TV from reality. Most of you !@#$ing idiot Americans deserve to be wiped out by a !@#$ing hurricane for your ignorance.

[Ghost of BiB]

People can't grasp the concept that the government is not an all-powerful entity that can solve problems for everyone in less than a day.

 

Carol Moseley Braun was just on CNN complaining that the troops brought in are being too "heavy-handed."  So there's no way to get things right, apparently.

428222[/snapback]

 

I'm pretty cold hearted, cynical and practical. But stuff like this really makes me shake my head. Also makes me sad. Some people who had a chance to try to show what is best about us, instead chose to find angles to divide and blame. I really don't want to get too deep into the "race card", but it seems as though it is being shoved down our throats from a variety of sources. Once again, I see a lot of complaints about "leadership" from the President, but people like the Mayor and Ms. Mosely Braun are supposed to be leaders too.

[SilverNRed]

Yes, and yes.

 

Because people are !@#$ing stupid and can't differentiate TV from reality.  Most of you !@#$ing idiot Americans deserve to be wiped out by a !@#$ing hurricane for your ignorance.

428227[/snapback]

After watching days of hysterical, shrill whining from people who can't comprehend that our government can't fix everything right away and that the people who survived one of the worst natural disasters in our history have to live the they're in a third world country (the horror) when they might consider how lucky they are to even be alive, I'm about ready to pull the plug on this whole country.

 

Kanye West thinks this is because "Bush doesn't like black people."

 

Jesse Jackson thinks using the word "refugee" is racist for some reason.

 

Carol Moseley Braun thinks the National Guard isn't treating everyone they've rescued nice enough.

 

I am so embarassed to be an American right now.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

People can't grasp the concept that the government is not an all-powerful entity that can solve problems for everyone in less than a day.

 

Carol Moseley Braun was just on CNN complaining that the troops brought in are being too "heavy-handed."  So there's no way to get things right, apparently.

428222[/snapback]

 

You dumbass, don't you know every President is issued a magic wand when they assume office? If everything isn't made right immediately, it obviously means the President is a racist and doesn't want to wave his magic wand for black people...

 

 

[buckeyemike]

People can't grasp the concept that the government is not an all-powerful entity that can solve problems for everyone in less than a day.

 

Carol Moseley Braun was just on CNN complaining that the troops brought in are being too "heavy-handed."  So there's no way to get things right, apparently.

428222[/snapback]

 

This should prove, once and for all, that Carol Moseley Braun is a freaking idiot.

 

I don't give a rat's @$$ what race she is. Idiocy transcends race, gender, creed, and sexuality.

 

Mike

[buckeyemike]

After watching days of hysterical, shrill whining from people who can't comprehend that our government can't fix everything right away and that the people who survived one of the worst natural disasters in our history have to live the they're in a third world country (the horror) when they might consider how lucky they are to even be alive, I'm about ready to pull the plug on this whole country.

 

Kanye West thinks this is because "Bush doesn't like black people."

 

Jesse Jackson thinks using the word "refugee" is racist for some reason.

 

Carol Moseley Braun thinks the National Guard isn't treating everyone they've rescued nice enough.

 

I am so embarassed to be an American right now.

428241[/snapback]

 

I'll be in Canada one week from today.

 

If what SNR says is correct, maybe I should stay.

 

Mike

[SDS]

One thing to take from this article is that the conclusions weren't questioned as "intolerable". LA and FEMA were fine with the predictions and the prediction came true.

 

They said residents would be on their own and indeed residents were on their own. They said it would take several days for the gov. to get in there and it has taken several days for the gov. to get in there.

 

I did not read where people flipped out and said that outcome was not tolerable and a new plan divised.

[Dan Gross]

One thing to take from this article is that the conclusions weren't questioned as "intolerable".  LA and FEMA were fine with the predictions and the prediction came true.

 

They said residents would be on their own and indeed residents were on their own.  They said it would take several days for the gov. to get in there and it has taken several days for the gov. to get in there.

 

I did not read where people flipped out and said that outcome was not tolerable and a new plan divised.

428749[/snapback]

 

Hey, in the mandatory evacuation address the mayor told people who were going to the shelters to bring 3-5 days worth of food as well. He knew just beforehand it would take days for relief to arrive...

 

Of course he also said in the same address that the gov't would commandeer equipment and vehicles to assist in evacuating those who couldn't...

[1billsfan]

Hey, in the mandatory evacuation address the mayor told people who were going to the shelters to bring 3-5 days worth of food as well.  He knew just beforehand it would take days for relief to arrive...

 

Of course he also said in the same address that the gov't would commandeer equipment and vehicles to assist in evacuating those who couldn't...

428750[/snapback]

 

From what I can gather, I would think that if you were poor and living from monthly paycheck to monthly paycheck that you'd have a hard time to buy 3 to 5 days worth of food at the end of a monthly cycle. I'm amazed that many here find acceptable that the goverment has several days to get help to U.S. citizens following national disasters. If the city of Buffalo were flooded by Lake Erie and the goverment took 3 to 5 days to get help to the people directly effected I think there would be a much different spin going on here. To me there's no way the goverment and it's appologists can spin an acceptable reason for the delayed response.

[Ghost of BiB]

From what I can gather, I would think that if you were poor and living from monthly paycheck to monthly paycheck that you'd have a hard time to buy 3 to 5 days worth of food at the end of a monthly cycle. I'm amazed that many here find acceptable that the goverment has several days to get help to U.S. citizens following national disasters. If the city of Buffalo were flooded by Lake Erie and the goverment took 3 to 5 days to get help to the people directly effected I think there would be a much different spin going on here. To me there's no way the goverment and it's appologists can spin an acceptable reason for the delayed response.

428956[/snapback]

 

OK, Devil's advocate here. If you are the city of NO, and you know "x" percentage of your population is in that kind of shape, you know that in spite of what you told anybody you can't evacuate them in a timely manner, you have been told upfront that if something happens you may not get any help for several days, your city is below sea level...etc.

 

Would it not be prudent to have strategically placed stockpiles of water and MRE's to cover your own butt until the cavalry arrives?

[1billsfan]

OK, Devil's advocate here. If you are the city of NO, and you know "x" percentage of your population is in that kind of shape, you know that in spite of what you told anybody you can't evacuate them in a timely manner, you have been told upfront that if something happens you may not get any help for several days, your city is below sea level...etc.

 

Would it not be prudent to have strategically placed stockpiles of water and MRE's to cover your own butt until the cavalry arrives?

428966[/snapback]

 

Hell yes. I think there's been major failures on all levels of government. The Mayor should have had buses for those without means to leave by car, train or plane. He should have also had a plan for food and water provisions if the flood came. The Governor should have had National Guardsmen on standby. Bush should have seen the fubar situation much earlier and acted on the National catastrophy instead of watching the obvious failures of local government and letting the situation become the National embarrassment that it obviously did. Bush gets the most blame because he's the top dog. That's the way it is when you're the President. There's no passing the buck of this one.

[Mike in Syracuse]

"FEMA Director Michael Brown told CNN's Larry King on Wednesday, "When I became the director of FEMA a couple of years ago, I decided it was time we did some really serious catastrophic disaster planning. So the president gave me money through our budget to do that. And we went around the country to figure out what's the best model we can do for a catastrophic disaster in this country? And we picked New Orleans, Louisiana.""

 

"But one of the drill participants, Col. Michael L. Brown, then-deputy director of the Louisiana emergency preparedness department, told the Baton Rouge Advocate newspaper that, in a worst-case scenario, there would be only so much government agencies could do.

 

"Residents need to know they'll be on their own for several days in a situation like this," Brown, who is not related to the FEMA director, told the paper."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/02/hur...rill/index.html

 

It sounds like this was the 1st time that this type of extensive planning, drill had been done.  They chose NO, who I believe still had a whole bunch of black people 2 years ago.  They saw deficiencies and outlined a plan to address those weaknesses.  They also knew that teh response would not be immediate, that residents would have to survive a few days, and that LA would need to stoock the initial supplies until FEMA could back fill.

427824[/snapback]

 

 

I don't think race or political affiliation had anything to do with the response or lack of response. I think the "response" was sympotmatic of a government that become beauracratically paralyzed. The challenge now is to dismantle the current structure and get it fixed.

[Mike in Syracuse]

Discuss what... Rudy Giuliani and Jeb Bush handled their situations much better than their Louisiana counterparts.

427994[/snapback]

 

Comparing what happened on 9/11 and Giuliani's response to the situation in New Orleans is just ignorant. Giuliani didn't have to evacuate NY, there was no damage to the infrastructure so supplies and personell could come and go freely and there was no loss of power except for in the immediate area. The "response" was limited to about an 8 block area. The other harsh reality was that there were very few victims left alive. When the towers came down, you were either dead or alive.

 

I'll never forget the response we got when we contacted our hospitals in the NYC area. Whe were attempting to get them an overstock of medical supplies and the response we got was "thanks but we don't have any influx of patients".

[Ghost of BiB]

Comparing what happened on 9/11 and Giuliani's response to the situation in New Orleans is just ignorant.  Giuliani didn't have to evacuate NY, there was no damage to the infrastructure so supplies and personell could come and go freely and there was no loss of power except for in the immediate area.  The "response" was limited to about an 8 block area.  The other harsh reality was that there were very few victims left alive.  When the towers came down, you were either dead or alive.

 

I'll never forget the response we got when we contacted our hospitals in the NYC area.  Whe were attempting to get them an overstock of medical supplies and the response we got was "thanks but we don't have any influx of patients".

429094[/snapback]

 

People just don't have anything in their memories to compare this to. 9/11 is about it - and it had such an impact on us that I don't think people realize that it structurally affected a small area. As far as this type of disaster goes, it is quantum levels above what happened there. As sick as it sounds, a WMD event, such as a low yield nuke would be a heck of a lot easier to deal with than this. You raise a good point about the hospitals. You don't have to treat dead people. This thing has left thousands of uninjured survivors, many who have become casualties through the environment and the elements. When you look at it, the scale boggles the mind.

 

Then, add in the sociological impact. It's not safe there, for those trying to help. There are probably areas of Iraq safer than NO and Biloxi right now. How does one cope with what amounts to insurgency in one of our own cities, against our own citizens? I'm sure, or at least I hope, that someone some day will do the study of this catastrophe from the social standpoint - how quickly a civilized society can break down into anarchy and chaos. Blame who you will...but our fellow Americans are some interesting people. It's been a vicious week - but it's only been a week, and many people reverted to animal days ago.

 

There is some crazy stuff going on out there, and it's not about "looting for food". That's never been an issue (to anyone not panicking) and one thing I'll give the authorities credit on is that they didn't make it one. There was a point where the Mayor shifted emphasis from rescue to "stopping the looting". I think this was a couched phrase for "getting anarchy and violence" under control, or try. You don't stop search and rescue over looting. No one really cares about TV sets, either. It's what has occurred on a more visceral level. It took less than 72 hours for what amounts to us getting out of control. There are plenty of bodies with gunshot wounds. It runs to both sides of the extreme. There are anarchist organizations within our own nation advocating and urging violence, there are white supremacists offering a bounty for black looters shot, with proof. There are black radical organizations urging "resistance".

 

I would have thought at one time, that this might show the world why we are who we are. We are Americans. I now fear we have. This country has just lost a lot more credibility in the eyes of the world than any war adventure could ever make happen. We have turned on ourselves at every level. On CNN/FOX (Gawd...Geraldo needs to go somewhere). From our streets to our President, and all in between. The world watches, you know? What we see on TV and what is said is listened to by the rest of the world. We don't listen to bitching in wherever Indonesia, but the world watches us. If anything has shown our vulnerability as a country, let alone a nation, it's been this past week. We didn't shave and we didn't apply our makeup. Thanks to a collective effort of our own making, the world is watching our failures, not our strengths.

 

Blame whoever you want for all that, I'm sure it's whoever's fault. Let's blame Bush or Clinton!!! There's a thought!

 

If you take the TV away, what have we Americans become?

[SilverNRed]

On CNN/FOX (Gawd...Geraldo needs to go somewhere). From our streets to our President, and all in between. The world watches, you know? What we see on TV and what is said is listened to by the rest of the world. We don't listen to bitching in wherever Indonesia, but the world watches us. If anything has shown our vulnerability as a country, let alone a nation, it's been this past week. We didn't shave and we didn't apply our makeup. Thanks to a collective effort of our own making, the world is watching our failures, not our strengths.

 

Blame whoever you want for all that, I'm sure it's whoever's fault. Let's blame Bush or Clinton!!! There's a thought!

 

If you take the TV away, what have we Americans become?

429265[/snapback]

Ben Stein made an interesting point. If our media put as much effort into raising poeple's spirits as they did into trying to make everything seem as awful as possible, we'd all be a lot better off.

 

Sadly, it's important to them that everything look horrible and everyone in the government look incompetent.

 

Basically there's been no praise for people taking care of the refugees, no praise for the search and rescue teams, and no praise for ordinary people who helped one another survive this thing. As weird as it sounds, there's a lot of good work being done. The rescue effort may have taken longer than people wanted, but how many countries could do better? How many countries could do it at all?

 

In other words, the big complaint from CNN/FOX/MSNBC is "it took too long."

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I don't think race or political affiliation had anything to do with the response or lack of response.  I think the "response" was sympotmatic of a government that become beauracratically paralyzed.  The challenge now is to dismantle the current structure and get it fixed.

429089[/snapback]

 

That's probably very true. And I'm sure the government's answer will be another bureaucratic entity to compete for resources...

[buckeyemike]

Ben Stein made an interesting point.  If our media put as much effort into raising poeple's spirits as they did into trying to make everything seem as awful as possible, we'd all be a lot better off.

 

Sadly, it's important to them that everything look horrible and everyone in the government look incompetent.

 

Basically there's been no praise for people taking care of the refugees, no praise for the search and rescue teams, and no praise for ordinary people who helped one another survive this thing.  As weird as it sounds, there's a lot of good work being done.  The rescue effort may have taken longer than people wanted, but how many countries could do better?  How many countries could do it at all? 

 

In other words, the big complaint from CNN/FOX/MSNBC is "it took too long."

429286[/snapback]

 

Exhibit 1-A on why Ben Stein is one of the smartest men alive.

 

Mike