Dan Gross Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Actually, what Kanye West was referring to is two AP photos - one of a black woman says she was looting and one of two white people said they were finding groceries. There's a big difference between finding and looting, and it shows, once again, that we still have racial disparities in this country. Kanye West did the right thing last night. People don't liek to hear the truth. 427983[/snapback] Actually, the one that said looting was an AP photo, the one that said "finding groceries" was an AFP (French Press) photo. Every article I've read calls looting "looting." Be it by blacks, whites, police...Get a grip...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 This topic moving to PPP any second now..... Kayne West is stupid for saying something like that durring a charity event, and in my opinion, just stupid about saying it. The problem isn't so much a racial divide as it is an economic divide. People suffering in N.O. are suffereing because they're black, they're suffering because they're poor. Becuase the they had no means to get out. We are talking about people that have no safety net of their own - they rely on governmental help as a safety net. When that help isn't there or not working well, you have what you see in N.O. - terrible. I read that fully 28% of people in N.O. live at or below the poverty line - that's truly amazing. I don't know if you know what the poverty level is ($19,484 for a family of 4), but living on that doesn't just mean things are tight - it means you are desperately poor and need some sort of outside safety net (food, housing assistance, etc). N.O. shows a great economic divide and how it plays out in times of crisis. The question isn't why does the president/government hate black people, it is why they aren't doing a better job of helping the poor who need the help the most. If you talk about race you have to do it as a part of this discussion - why are so many of the poor minorities - that's a different discussion. 427985[/snapback] It is simply a mistake to say that the racial divide and the economic divide are two separate things that have nothing to do with each other. Even without a KKK motivation, people whose ancestors were forced to be slaves and who generally lived under Jim Crow LAWS which denied them equal access to common things like food (Woolworth lunch counter type LAWS) and sanitation/drinking water (WHITE ONLY water fountain LAWS) which are society is not too far removed from (people alive today lived under Jim Crow LAWS). The economic divide and the racial divide were intrinsically linked. The comprehensive studies done even today show a racial effect on a range of issues from housing, to jobs, to medical care. A view which claims these two items are separate or ignores the FACT that it was Ward 9 in NO which is the poorest AND blackest parts of town which were the lowlands where the most people drowned is simply a racist view. It ain't as bad as the KKK view but I'm sorry to say that this factual incorrect separation is racist.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 What's the big deal? Sharpton was saying the same shiat last night on Tucker Carlson's show.
Dan Gross Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 What's the big deal? Sharpton was saying the same shiat last night on Tucker Carlson's show. 428012[/snapback] Was Tucker Carlson's show put on as an effort to raise funds for Katrina relief? I take it you felt the sudden urge to give money when you heard "Bush hates black people?" They were there to plead for money. Wrong venue for those comments...
TheMadKat Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 In well-researched cases like whites and non-whites coming to banks with the same economic backgrounds, whites tended to get more loans and likewise with apartments being shown, job intterviews and the like. 427919[/snapback] Where are these "well-researched cases"? I'd like to see the studies myself so I'm more educated in this subject.
TheMadKat Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Actually, what Kanye West was referring to is two AP photos - one of a black woman says she was looting and one of two white people said they were finding groceries. There's a big difference between finding and looting, and it shows, once again, that we still have racial disparities in this country. Kanye West did the right thing last night. People don't liek to hear the truth. 427983[/snapback] Well, attack the writers. Sure, there are racial disparities in the country, but not everyone has those same views. Attacking the President does not help the situation.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Where are these "well-researched cases"? I'd like to see the studies myself so I'm more educated in this subject. 428076[/snapback] Search for them, they're easy to find. They've been very widely reported on over the past many years.
SilverNRed Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 no he did not do the right thing . he was there to get people to donate money . not the time or the place for his grand standing . 427986[/snapback] After finally seeing it, it's really amazing how incoherent and pathetic he looked. I wonder how many people didn't donate after seeing that. Way to go, dipshit.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Where are these "well-researched cases"? I'd like to see the studies myself so I'm more educated in this subject. 428076[/snapback] Sure, no prob. There are multiple individual studies which can be foun but the easiest thing to do is to sort through the collections. As many folks in the United States fear to talk about and research these issues vecause of the blot of racism slavery placed in our history, a quick internet search revealed two collections on these issues housed in foreign universities. However, since the universities are in the countries of two of our best friends and allies, the UK and Canada they should not be disregarded simply because they are not American. The University of Leeds near Yorkshire in the UK has a Center looking at these issues and providing access to multiple studies which are peer reviewed and can be replicated at > http://www.leeds.ac.uk/cers/ < In addition the University of Toronto also maintains a collection at a Center at this school which can be accessed at > http://www.oise.utoronto.ca/ciars/ < I have a "heard it on the news" knowledge of the very interesting studies which showed doctors videotapes of actors citing a variety of symptoms and procvided test results for each person and set-up the sample so that the variation was such that white actors, black actors and/or female actors presented symptoms and test numbers so that the variation was the race and gender of the patients and the doctors who agreed to do the research did not know the subject of the test. The results were clear in that the doctors (whether they were white or people of color tended to order up the more expensive caddilac of tests for the white men in significantly greater numbers that they would order up the best tests for women or people of color that had the same symptoms or complaints. The study theorized that as people of color docs showed the same bias as white docs that the reason was not racism per se but that the society simply tended to value white men more than women or people of color. I think this study was reported in the JAMA, the Joirnal of the American Medical Association though a key word search using words like medicine and racism together will probably be most fruitful. Personally, i am most familiar with the studies which looked at a racial or economic bias in terms of pollution or clean-up. The work I have been involved with was done by the National Wildlife Federation which is the largest membership conservation organization in the world and no one would mistake these hunter members who have been strident opponents of gun control whose membership overlaps strongly with the National Rifle Association as being a lefto group (they work to preserve animal habitat so they can shoot animals. NWF has a Corporate Conservation Council which is how they interact with the Fortune 500 companies and some of the biggest polluting comapanies in the world like Dow, DuPont, etc. In the early 90s in the face of accusations from environmental justice activists that the almost completely white national environmental community did not represent or interact with the people of color communities most impacted by pollution, CCC commissioned a study collecting reports that looked at the disproportionate distribution of pollution. They hired a Phd economist named Dr. Ben Goldman who had done some groundbreaking EJ work for the United Church of Christ on a report called Toxic Wastes and Race which found a racial disparity in the siting of hazadous waste sites when one looked for correlations between the location of waste sites which are categorized by zip code and census data which has race and economic data also collected by zip code. The CCC study collected the dats from roughly 83 national or large regional studies looking at a broad range of pollutants from air pollutants to pesticides to what have you. The results were clear as all the studies except for one (that one commissioned and paid for by Waste Management Inc the larget waste handler in the world) found a disparity either based on race or income. Most surprisingly to me, race was actually a better indicator than income that a person would live in the same zipcode as a harzardous waste site with about 88% of the studies finding a racial disparity and 75% finding an income dispartiy. This coooberated findings done in smaller studdies like those of Dr. Robert Bullard looking at Houston that even more wealthy blacks were more likely to live in the same zipcodes as harardous waste sites than the average American citizen. Believe me, there were attempts to try to find rationales why this data did not lead to a race based conclusion claiming that income or other factors were the reason. However, as exhaustively as one wants to pour through this data, the race issue is far more often a more likely correlation than income or other data. Correlation is not the same as causation and like most stats this proves nothing conclusively. However, these stats do indicate a lot and I think it changed the burden of proof to one where one needed to demonstrate that race could be ignored rather than one had to prove that race was a relevant factor. I think this actually showed a lot about this data issue, because once folks began to accept that there was a racial reality to how wastes were distributed then we did not waste time on the race issue but then could turn to solving the problem. I think this issue of environmental racism is particularly important for our society. Most other accusations of racism happen on issues which are in essence a zero-sum game. When racism was undercut as a method for determining college or med school entry it not only meant that more people of color got in if the only criteria for selection was merit (even without affirmative action which is a ggod way to reverse past discrimination OR without quotas which I think is a bad way to reverse past discrimination, but it also meant that fewer whites got in and they objected. Environmental justice however is not a zero-sum game and since once pollution enters the environment and can and eventrually does go everywhere, reversing the disproportionate impacts of pollution creation actually has the potential for beneffiting the entire community white, black or other. Unfortunately the study, Not Just Posperity is not on the web but if one calls the National Wildlife Federation HQ in DC perhaps you can get it. At any rate, if you are interested in these issues I suggest looking at the collected studies at the above sites or doing a simple google search looking for |racos, studies" and you can find this data.
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 There's no limit to the stupidity our celebrities will exhibit.... 427689[/snapback] Celebrity? Am I the only one who never heard of this guy prior to this morning?
Ramius Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 I loved how he said "they are shooting "us" " As if him and his family were down there being shot...what a friggin a-hole...dipshits like him are the major cause of race problems...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Celebrity? Am I the only one who never heard of this guy prior to this morning? 428265[/snapback] I couldn't tell you who he is either. Just means we are both older than 20 I guess...
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