A modest proposal

[Campy]

Did it ever occur to you that just maybe you're arguing with people who do this for a living?

427763[/snapback]

I don't think he's connected those dots yet.

[Nanker]

Maybe we can have a new Ambulance Chasing Board.

We could have all the Crisis-of-the-Day issues discussed only there.

 

Then again, based on last night's performance, maybe there would be a lot of Bills posts there too.

[rockpile]

At the moment, 14 of 18 threads preceding yours are about football, mostly the Bills. Helps when there is a game to talk about. :Pm

 

Hang in there!

[Dan Gross]

At the moment, 14 of 18 threads preceding yours are about football, mostly the Bills. Helps when there is a game to talk about.  :Pm

 

Hang in there!

428048[/snapback]

 

It will help even more when there's a game that means something to talk about...

[Max Fischer]

You guys are absolutely pathetic. It's like accidently stopping by the George Bush Apologists Club.

 

You can't even conceive why people are upset. Your instinct is to attack anyone who expresses doubt as to President's ability to lead let alone worship the guy.

 

Frightening.

 

I regret engaging you clowns. Now PLEASE go back to your Club on PPP where you can continue your mutual self affirming activities.

[Dan Gross]

You guys are absolutely pathetic.  It's like accidently stopping by the George Bush Apologists Club.

 

You can't even conceive why people are upset.  Your instinct is to attack anyone who expresses doubt as to President's ability to lead let alone worship the guy. 

 

 

428056[/snapback]

 

No, my instinct is to try to understand a situation beyond what we are getting in our over-the-top Geraldo/Shep sound bites before forming an opinion. I'm anti-Bush, I voted against him twice. But even I recognize placing blame on him and him alone is a little misguided. I can absolutely understand why people are upset. But the response of the Gov't should not be "OMG! OMG! We have to do something even if it's wrong." You are going to kill more people with the wrong, instant, panicked actions than will die from deliberately moving forward.

[cåblelady]

BiB is good !@#$ing people

427736[/snapback]

 

[kegtapr]

You guys are absolutely pathetic.  It's like accidently stopping by the George Bush Apologists Club.

 

You can't even conceive why people are upset.  Your instinct is to attack anyone who expresses doubt as to President's ability to lead let alone worship the guy. 

 

Frightening.

 

I regret engaging you clowns.  Now PLEASE go back to your Club on PPP where you can continue your mutual self affirming activities.

428056[/snapback]

 

Who the !@#$ are you and why do you think you can tell people who have been on this board for 7+ years to go someplace else?

 

Shut the !@#$ up already.

[Ghost of BiB]

You guys are absolutely pathetic.  It's like accidently stopping by the George Bush Apologists Club.

 

You can't even conceive why people are upset.  Your instinct is to attack anyone who expresses doubt as to President's ability to lead let alone worship the guy. 

 

Frightening.

 

I regret engaging you clowns.  Now PLEASE go back to your Club on PPP where you can continue your mutual self affirming activities.

428056[/snapback]

 

I understand why people are upset. A lot of people are upset because they are reacting from emotion and a lack of information, glued to a media less interested with explaining than scooping. A lot of things conspired to make the NO situation much, much worse than it needed to be. I'm not appologizing for Bush when I say that the Federal response effort is just about all anyone could possibly, realistically expect. What was NOT made clear in the actual mandatory evacuation order (issued way too late, BTW, has anyone read it?) but was made very clear in the National Weather Service warnings was that many people who stayed would likely die, and those who survived could expect to be on their own for a minimum of a week. It sounds and seems cold, but a response and recovery effort takes into acount poor decisions and mistakes made by those prior to the event, but it's impossible to stage forces, supplies, equipment and other support in the very path of the storm they have to help out with in the numbers large enough to accomodate those several thousands who shouldn't have been there anyway. It took time to assess what roads were passable enough to even get into the area. Huge sections were under water. Airports were destroyed, runways buried in debris and navigational aids were put out of commission. Want to be the guy flying the transport plane blind through the clouds? A relief effort has to be supported itself before it can help someone else, or it becomes another problem to be taken care of. The government is as we speak moving heaven and earth to try to take care of these people. Taking care of these people is going to take a long, long time and millions of manhours, not to mention dollars. Thousands of people are involved. Been a lot of sleepless nights. Many relief and rescue people are probably going to die. Military Civil Support packages have been designed and planned for with the idea that something like a nuclear bomb detonating in the superdome could be one of the worst scenarios they'd face. Because of a cascading series of events, this is actually much worse and covers a much, much larger footprint. Don't forget that there are people in Alabama, Mississippi and other parts of LA that need help too. Many people are caught up in the emotion of the moment. No matter what happens, there will be finger pointing and complaining. But to sit here and bash the people doing it without any knowledge whatsoever of the conditions or what has/needs to be done - from a practical standpoint, is really not helping anything. Only serves to flame up more emotion. Time for everyone to get a grip, and let people do the work.

[Max Fischer]

Who the !@#$ are you and why do you think you can tell people who have been on this board for 7+ years to go someplace else?

 

Shut the !@#$ up already.

428069[/snapback]

 

Thanks, you make my point.

 

(Hidden secret: the more posts you have, the smarter you are. I'll have to work on my 25+ posts a day always saying: "you're an idiot," "you don't know anything," "GWB/my guy is never wrong," [self-affirming pat on the back], etc.)

 

Now back to football . . .

[kegtapr]

Thanks, you make my point. 

 

(Hidden secret: the more posts you have, the smarter you are.  I'll have to work on my 25+ posts a day always saying: "you're an idiot," "you don't know anything," "GWB/my guy is never wrong," [self-affirming pat on the back], etc.)

 

Now back to football . . .

428077[/snapback]

 

Yeah, that's what I said.

 

Reading comprehension is a quality many people lack.

[kegtapr]

I understand why people are upset. A lot of people are upset because they are reacting from emotion and a lack of information, glued to a media less interested with explaining than scooping. A lot of things conspired to make the NO situation much, much worse than it needed to be. I'm not appologizing for Bush when I say that the Federal response effort is just about all anyone could possibly, realistically expect. What was NOT made clear in the actual mandatory evacuation order (issued way too late, BTW, has anyone read it?) but was made very clear in the National Weather Service warnings was that many people who stayed would likely die, and those who survived could expect to be on their own for a minimum of a week. It sounds and seems cold, but a response and recovery effort takes into acount poor decisions and mistakes made by those prior to the event, but it's impossible to stage forces, supplies, equipment and other support in the very path of the storm they have to help out with in the numbers large enough to accomodate those several thousands who shouldn't have been there anyway. It took time to assess what roads were passable enough to even get into the area. Huge sections were under water. Airports were destroyed, runways buried in debris and navigational aids were put out of commission. Want to be the guy flying the transport plane blind through the clouds? A relief effort has to be supported itself before it can help someone else, or it becomes another problem to be taken care of. The government is as we speak moving heaven and earth to try to take care of these people. Taking care of these people is going to take a long, long time and millions of manhours, not to mention dollars. Thousands of people are involved. Been a lot of sleepless nights. Many relief and rescue people are probably going to die. Military Civil Support packages have been designed and planned for with the idea that something like a nuclear bomb detonating in the superdome could be one of the worst scenarios they'd face. Because of a cascading series of events, this is actually much worse and covers a much, much larger footprint. Don't forget that there are people in Alabama, Mississippi and other parts of LA that need help too. Many people are caught up in the emotion of the moment. No matter what happens, there will be finger pointing and complaining. But to sit here and bash the people doing it without any knowledge whatsoever of the conditions or what has/needs to be done - from a practical standpoint, is really not helping anything. Only serves to flame up more emotion. Time for everyone to get a grip, and let people do the work.

428075[/snapback]

 

 

But they said it on CNN so it must be true.

 

Thanks for your insightful knowledge into the situation Bib. Unfortunetly, those who need to hear it most are those least likely to listen.

[Ghost of BiB]

By the way...

 

Why you don't drop pallets on top of people into a city.

[BillsFanNC]

I understand why people are upset. A lot of people are upset because they are reacting from emotion and a lack of information, glued to a media less interested with explaining than scooping. A lot of things conspired to make the NO situation much, much worse than it needed to be. I'm not appologizing for Bush when I say that the Federal response effort is just about all anyone could possibly, realistically expect. What was NOT made clear in the actual mandatory evacuation order (issued way too late, BTW, has anyone read it?) but was made very clear in the National Weather Service warnings was that many people who stayed would likely die, and those who survived could expect to be on their own for a minimum of a week. It sounds and seems cold, but a response and recovery effort takes into acount poor decisions and mistakes made by those prior to the event, but it's impossible to stage forces, supplies, equipment and other support in the very path of the storm they have to help out with in the numbers large enough to accomodate those several thousands who shouldn't have been there anyway. It took time to assess what roads were passable enough to even get into the area. Huge sections were under water. Airports were destroyed, runways buried in debris and navigational aids were put out of commission. Want to be the guy flying the transport plane blind through the clouds? A relief effort has to be supported itself before it can help someone else, or it becomes another problem to be taken care of. The government is as we speak moving heaven and earth to try to take care of these people. Taking care of these people is going to take a long, long time and millions of manhours, not to mention dollars. Thousands of people are involved. Been a lot of sleepless nights. Many relief and rescue people are probably going to die. Military Civil Support packages have been designed and planned for with the idea that something like a nuclear bomb detonating in the superdome could be one of the worst scenarios they'd face. Because of a cascading series of events, this is actually much worse and covers a much, much larger footprint. Don't forget that there are people in Alabama, Mississippi and other parts of LA that need help too. Many people are caught up in the emotion of the moment. No matter what happens, there will be finger pointing and complaining. But to sit here and bash the people doing it without any knowledge whatsoever of the conditions or what has/needs to be done - from a practical standpoint, is really not helping anything. Only serves to flame up more emotion. Time for everyone to get a grip, and let people do the work.

428075[/snapback]

 

 

Thank you as always for your level headed insight BiB.

[Max Fischer]

I understand why people are upset. A lot of people are upset because they are reacting from emotion and a lack of information, glued to a media less interested with explaining than scooping. A lot of things conspired to make the NO situation much, much worse than it needed to be. I'm not appologizing for Bush when I say that the Federal response effort is just about all anyone could possibly, realistically expect. What was NOT made clear in the actual mandatory evacuation order (issued way too late, BTW, has anyone read it?) but was made very clear in the National Weather Service warnings was that many people who stayed would likely die, and those who survived could expect to be on their own for a minimum of a week. It sounds and seems cold, but a response and recovery effort takes into acount poor decisions and mistakes made by those prior to the event, but it's impossible to stage forces, supplies, equipment and other support in the very path of the storm they have to help out with in the numbers large enough to accomodate those several thousands who shouldn't have been there anyway. It took time to assess what roads were passable enough to even get into the area. Huge sections were under water. Airports were destroyed, runways buried in debris and navigational aids were put out of commission. Want to be the guy flying the transport plane blind through the clouds? A relief effort has to be supported itself before it can help someone else, or it becomes another problem to be taken care of. The government is as we speak moving heaven and earth to try to take care of these people. Taking care of these people is going to take a long, long time and millions of manhours, not to mention dollars. Thousands of people are involved. Been a lot of sleepless nights. Many relief and rescue people are probably going to die. Military Civil Support packages have been designed and planned for for with the idea that something like a nuclear bomb detonating in the superdome could be one of the worst scenarios they's face. Because of a cascading series of events, this is actually much worse and covers a much, much larger footprint. Don't forget that there are people in Alabama, Mississippi and other parts of LA that need help too. Many people are caught up in the emotion of the moment. No matter what happens, there will be finger pointing and complaining. But to sit here and bash the people doing it without any knowledge whatsoever of the conditions or what has/needs to be done - from a practical standpoint, is really not helping anything. Only serves to flame up more emotion. Time for everyone to get a grip, and let people do the work.

428075[/snapback]

 

Ah, a very logical post. Nice. Unfortunately, human emotions are the X-Factor and that's where the leaders have to step up. As I said before: Churchill was indespensible but not because he knew how where to put the tanks.

 

If you have to blindly defend a leader then the leader already has a problem.

 

Anyway, nice reponse. Go Bills.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I agree that ALL NO and GulfCoast post should be sent to the PPP board. I say this as one who just finished a too long piece I just wrote about who I think is at fault for the Gulf Coast debacle

 

(btw 1. The victims have some responsibiltity because in the end there is personal responsibility, however, this does not release elected officials from their responsibilites particularly for the sick, elderly and kids; 2. The Mayor has some responsibility as he is the frontline and the stupid zoning and development decisions which eliminated acres of weland buffers for development and concentrated the poorest blackest folks in a low-lying area of the City deserve some blame, 3. The Governor of the state bollixed things so badly she begged for federal troops with shoot-to-kill orders to come in and deal with these American citizns because other American citizens had gotten out of controlin a situation made worse by government zoning decisions and not addressed adequately by government clean-up efforts, 4. The Prez- as Harry Truman said the buck stops in the Oval Office and it taking 4-5 days for a convoy to finally enter the City and to see the head of FEMA being informed by the newsmedia that several thousand folks had concentrated at the Convention Center after being told to go there but not only were no emergeny supplies there but a dead body of an elderly woman was lying there being eaten by rats represented a colossal failure from folks who are on record saying they had this difficult situation well in hand).

 

I would be pleased to see TSW go back to football with ALL NO posts moved to PPP. with the following provisos:

 

1. A link to the American Red cross should be pinned up and all TSW folks encouraged to support doing something.

 

2. I think with entry of a truck convoy into NO after 4-5 days we have finally turned a corner, but I am thankful to SDS and the moderators for allowing some conversation about the biggest natural (and man-made when one considers the flooding the hurricane caused as the man-made levee broke) disaster to evey hit Amerca. The rules deserved to be broken for this.

 

Though we have seemingly turned a corner it ain't over yet though for sure. I think themoderators and SDS should declare this discussion moved on Monday or so and then all the NO stuff should be moved to PPP.

[Ghost of BiB]

Ah, a very logical post.  Nice.  Unfortunately, human emotions are the X-Factor and that's where the leaders have to step up.  As I said before: Churchill was indespensible but not because he knew how where to put the tanks.

 

If you have to blindly defend a leader then the leader already has a problem.

 

Anyway, nice reponse.  Go Bills.

428095[/snapback]

 

Emotions may be the X-factor, but have to be shed by the operations planners. People who deal with these types of scenarios are well aware going in that they can't save everyone. Micky Mouse, Lincoln, or Jesus Christ could be President, and it wouldn't make one bit of difference. They plan to save as many as they can to help everyone they can. It's impossible to be 100% successful. There is also more at stake than the direct people costs. The federal government has a responsibility to maintain continuity of the national infrastructure. As for this administration lying down on the job, someone Google NORTHCOM, which was created to undertake the Homeland Defense mission. A section of NORTHCOM is called Joint Task Force Civil Support. JTF-CS's main purpose in life is to provide the military response for consequence management. Anyone want to take a wild guess as to who is running things now? If this system had not been in place, those people wouldn't have what they got, and are going to get. Again, as we speak, there are some very, very, very busy people working some awfully long hours in an operations center in Colorado Springs.