NCDAWG Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Imagine Hurricane Andrew, a Biblical flood, and the L.A. Riots all rolled into one and squared. That's approximately what's going on in New Orleans right now. 427192[/snapback] And that whats happened during Andrew too, floods and rioting and looting.
aussiew Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Wow all those buses just sitting there - covered in water. Too bad the city didn't use them during the evacuation last Saturday and Sunday so that those who wanted to get out could get to safety. Kinda' looks like all the airlines that started canceling flights 36 hours before the storm, the trains that shut down, the bus companies that shut down, 6 of the 8 rental car companies at the airport that had lots full of cars, but their employees had already evacuated so they are now covered in water. There were so many modes of transportation available for the thousands who were trying to leave. But we couldn't use them....
JasoninMT Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I have this small tidbit of info to relate... My chiropracter used to live in New Orleans - about 10 years or so ago... He said, folks down there have known this was going to happen eventually and talk about it all the time... they are much like folks in southern California - they "know" something will happen "someday"... but hope/delude themselves into thinking it won't happen during their lives. The levee was apparently rated to survive a category 3 hurricane... So, I guess it is **fair** to say they should have been more prepared... But, that doesn't make it any less tragic, nor does pointing fingers at anyone... All we can do now is everything we can to make these peoples lives bearable right now... not tomorrow, but right now. Who knows what will become of New Orleans... I've heard reports that much of it will never be the same - a lot of irreperable damage to one of this countries "landmark cities"... kota said it best. "This is a national disaster."
Navy Chief Navy Pride Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Um, most of them are probably fighting Bush's war in Iraq. Because this is a national disaster, thus, the feds are primarily responsible for acting on it. This is not something that will just affect the people of NO. We'll all pay for it in the long run. Um, didn't the president have notice that hijackers were planning on using planes to attack us yet he had no plan in place to deal with it? Lazy ass? Wasn't the president on vacation when this went down? Why did he wait until Wednesday to decide to cut his vay-cay short? There are so many things wrong with what you've said. I've pointed out a few. Get it together dude. 427242[/snapback] Fighting Bush's war huh? Typical left BULLsh--!!! I suppose you blame Bush for whats going on in N.O. now as well. According to the left the only thing G.W. Bush could have done right is personnaly call Mother Nature and strike a deal with her to not hit the U.S. and then I'm sure you still would have found a reason to B word. Start making some REAL suggestions on how to fix some of these problems and stop placing blame and pointing fingers. People are dying and all the right-wingers on this board can do is wag their fingers at the dying. FYI: The federal government is the one who cut the funds to repair those levees. Someone please move this crap to the PPP board where it belongs! PTR 427253[/snapback] PTR with that comment you just equvilated yourself to a cross between RJ and JPEra
Navy Chief Navy Pride Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I have this small tidbit of info to relate... My chiropracter used to live in New Orleans - about 10 years or so ago... He said, folks down there have known this was going to happen eventually and talk about it all the time... they are much like folks in southern California - they "know" something will happen "someday"... but hope/delude themselves into thinking it won't happen during their lives. The levee was apparently rated to survive a category 3 hurricane... So, I guess it is **fair** to say they should have been more prepared... But, that doesn't make it any less tragic, nor does pointing fingers at anyone... All we can do now is everything we can to make these peoples lives bearable right now... not tomorrow, but right now. Who knows what will become of New Orleans... I've heard reports that much of it will never be the same - a lot of irreperable damage to one of this countries "landmark cities"... kota said it best. "This is a national disaster." 427394[/snapback] good post---couldn't have said it better
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 For the millionth time, the levee that broke was not in need of repair and there were no plans to upgrade it. It was a design problem, not a funding problem. 427261[/snapback] The Ford Pinto had design problems too. Saying it had design problems is supposed to placate everybody? You know how silly that sounds? Maybe Katrina hit to soon but, I fully expect to see the plans that were in place for fixing those flaws? Darn, the storm proably wiped out all the rigs trying to correct those design problems? Next time I get a leaky roof and I am to lazy to go up on it and fix it... Can I tell my wife it is a "design problem." At least the greatest engineering outfit in the world is manning up to it. Where do they get these maroons saying this crap?
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Wow all those buses just sitting there - covered in water. Too bad the city didn't use them during the evacuation last Saturday and Sunday so that those who wanted to get out could get to safety. Kinda' looks like all the airlines that started canceling flights 36 hours before the storm, the trains that shut down, the bus companies that shut down, 6 of the 8 rental car companies at the airport that had lots full of cars, but their employees had already evacuated so they are now covered in water. There were so many modes of transportation available for the thousands who were trying to leave. But we couldn't use them.... 427370[/snapback] So true. So true. Just imagine if all the assets were used and not shut down... They would still be in use today and not lost. The couple from SD and Chicago that took the limo ride are looking like geniuses. How they were chuckled at early on. You know who the real genius was, it was the limo driver for taking that fare. His limo is his bread and butter... Today it is saved and making him a living. If I was that driver... I would gladly give all that money back and just take the fuel money.
SilverNRed Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 The Ford Pinto had design problems too. Saying it had design problems is supposed to placate everybody? You know how silly that sounds? 427418[/snapback] I'm not trying to "placate everybody," I'm pointing out that this crap about "Bush diverting money away from NO" is just that - crap. The levees in place functioned exactly as they were supposed to, and that's why they failed. It's not like the city of NO was just on the verge of improvement but couldn't afford it. A levee system that would have protected the city was never even considered. Before you can ask for money to improve the levees, you have to have a plan/proposal for how that would work. They didn't. So there were no plans to ever have a levee system that would have helped in this event. There should have been decades ago but they just kept getting away with not having one (heck, on Monday it looked like they had again) and eventually forgot about it.
jarthur31 Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 I hope alot of the survivors are smart enough not to move back and put themselves in danger again.
SilverNRed Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Here WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Thursday that a lack of funding for hurricane-protection projects around New Orleans did not contribute to the disastrous flooding that followed Hurricane Katrina. In a telephone interview with reporters, corps officials said that although portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way--inundating much of the city--were completed and in good condition before the hurricane. and However, they noted that the levees were designed for a Category 3 hurricane and couldn't handle the ferocious winds and raging waters from Hurricane Katrina, which was a Category 4 storm when it hit the coastline. The decision to build levees for a Category 3 hurricane was made decades ago based on a cost-benefit analysis. "I don't see that the level of funding was really a contributing factor in this case," said Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, chief of engineers for the corps. "Had this project been fully complete, it is my opinion that based on the intensity of this storm that the flooding of the business district and the French Quarter would have still taken place." and finally Congress in 1999 authorized the corps to conduct a $12 million study to determine how much it would cost to protect New Orleans from a Category 5 hurricane, but the study isn't scheduled to get under way until 2006. It was not clear why the study has taken so long to begin, though Congress has only provided in the range of $100,000 or $200,000 a year so far. Al Naomi, senior project manager in the corps' New Orleans District, said it would cost as much as $2.5 billion to build such a system, which would likely include gates to block the Gulf of Mexico from Lake Pontchartrain and additional levees. If the project were fully funded and started immediately, Naomi said it could be completed in three to five years. So the closest they were to even having a new levee system design was a study being prepped to begin next year. In other words, they went the cheap route decades ago and nobody was in a hurry to bring things up to speed because it just didn't seem like a problem to Congress. Of course, local leaders should have been well aware of all of this and prepared in the event that a Cat 4/5 storm hit their city with the levees meant for Cat 3 hurricanes.......
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Hereand and finally So the closest they were to even having a new levee system design was a study being prepped to begin next year. In other words, they went the cheap route decades ago and nobody was in a hurry to bring things up to speed because it just didn't seem like a problem to Congress. Of course, local leaders should have been well aware of all of this and prepared in the event that a Cat 4/5 storm hit their city with the levees meant for Cat 3 hurricanes....... 427660[/snapback] Like the Corps hasn't lied in the past and padded their numbers and would do anything to pass the blame? Yah, right! I got some farmland for sale in NO. The 12 million study was kicked off in 1999 and only given a 100k-200k or so a year. In 2004 it had to be selved because lack of funds when the budget was cut by 70 million. That is the part they are not talking about. You gotta admit, they got good legal/PR and know what to say and leave out. They are saying they don't know why it is taking so long but, the reason is: Obviously they can't afford it.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 I'm not trying to "placate everybody," I'm pointing out that this crap about "Bush diverting money away from NO" is just that - crap. The levees in place functioned exactly as they were supposed to, and that's why they failed. It's not like the city of NO was just on the verge of improvement but couldn't afford it. A levee system that would have protected the city was never even considered. Before you can ask for money to improve the levees, you have to have a plan/proposal for how that would work. They didn't. So there were no plans to ever have a levee system that would have helped in this event. There should have been decades ago but they just kept getting away with not having one (heck, on Monday it looked like they had again) and eventually forgot about it. 427650[/snapback] And who do you propose the city go to for this study?
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 In other words, they went the cheap route decades ago and nobody was in a hurry to bring things up to speed because it just didn't seem like a problem to Congress. Forgot. This gives me heartburn. Corps bravado thoughout the years did a lot and went far in calming the nerves. I wish I could somehow dig up old Engineer Updates (Corps newsletter)... Reading certain piles of shist articles your average layman would think that the Corps had it all figured out.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 And who do you propose the city go to for this study? 427714[/snapback] The Dutch would be a great place to start. There's obvious diplomatic issues, in that New Orleans can't go to a foreign country directly...but if I want advice on how to live safely ten feet below sea level next to a body of water and a flood-prone river, that's probably who I talk to first. The second person I'd turn to is anybody but Ray Nagin.
SDS Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 The second person I'd turn to is anybody but Ray Nagin. 427732[/snapback] you could always turn to Ray and just do the opposite.
SilverNRed Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 And who do you propose the city go to for this study? 427714[/snapback] I don't know. Levees really aren't my thing seeing as how I've never lived in a city where my life depended on them. I imagine the people who live in and run NO would or should have some idea though... Here, I'll save you time and post your reply for you: something something something
Like A Mofo Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Um, most of them are probably fighting Bush's war in Iraq. 427242[/snapback] Better go take another math course
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 you could always turn to Ray and just do the opposite. 427750[/snapback] Do the opposite of what Ray does? Well, that would be...blame Ray...
PatPatPatSack Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Like the Corps hasn't lied in the past and padded their numbers and would do anything to pass the blame? Yah, right! I got some farmland for sale in NO. The 12 million study was kicked off in 1999 and only given a 100k-200k or so a year. In 2004 it had to be selved because lack of funds when the budget was cut by 70 million. That is the part they are not talking about. You gotta admit, they got good legal/PR and know what to say and leave out. They are saying they don't know why it is taking so long but, the reason is: Obviously they can't afford it. 427711[/snapback] It don't take a left wing or right wing Idealist to tell you that if you are on a boat, you need lifejackets and lifeboats. The only proper analogy here is the Titanic. In that era, the "cost benefit analysis" showed that it wasn't necessary to have lifeboats for the low probabilitiy of the boat sinking. Time has shown us the foolishness of that thinking. Time will also show that the Federal Government needs to be able to respond to a Cat 5 hurricane and it's effects. End of discussion. We don't debate lifeboats anymore. It's not about the levee's - it's about how we plan to rescue the survivors. This storm started out in the Atlantic HOW long ago. And nobody thought to fire up some rescue efforts? What is the plan to rescue Houston from a Cat 5? Who is in charge of that? Look on the map and tell me it can't happen in Houston.
simadafuma Posted September 3, 2005 Posted September 3, 2005 Deeray, This is called a National Disaster. Thank you 427133[/snapback] http://americanradioworks.publicrad...cane_print.html A natural disaster that the local government should have been better prepared for. That article is from September 2002. 3 Days warning???? Try 3 years warning. Yet the Local New Orleans government allowed and encoraged people to build and reside in this area. Where does the problem lie? The local and state government.
Recommended Posts