Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Typical retort. I thought you were supposed to be the elitist, super genius, not-it-all. Your response seems very beneath you but perhaps not. You said it but you made the statement in a vacuum as if it had no impact on the comparison between the "leadership skills" of the two mayors. In fact, it's the whole point. Some emergency personnel may have "walked off the job" but it may be to save their OWN family in immediate, life/death situation. You have NO evidence to prove otherwise and of course that would have NOTHING to do with management ability. NONE. Of course, during the 9/11 situation -- that was never the issue. 426881[/snapback] I didn't make it in a vacuum, I qualified it the same way you are!!!! Again, read the whole post, you !@#$ing idiot!
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Can I pick? 426887[/snapback] No. You pick places no one notices. People still haven't missed Iowa.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 The media sucks. I heard FOX and CNN yesterday report on conditions at Charity Hospital. Two completely different and diametrically opposed stories. I was hearing about the FEMA deployments two days before the hurricane hit, though. Everyone right now is so stressed out over this, no one seems to be thinking back any farther than what happened yesterday. Makes for a lot of revisionist history. 426872[/snapback] The facts seem to be that there can actually be two completely different and dramtically opposed occurences at the same location or even from the same response. One person can end up having a life-saving interaction with the a hospital or with FEMA and another person can be blown off by the same folks who simply have more to deal with than they can handle. The real mistake here is that some seem to keep insisting that there is a one size fits all response to this situation which if only these fools in charge would take it all problems will be solved, Unfortunately this is not the reality. Huge miscalculations regarding an event which was not predictable but was forseeable (and actually forseen by Nature Magazine in prints a few years back) were made and communication and control have broken down because of it. Getting folks out as a part of getting the situation stabilized appears to be the best thing to do right now.
Wacka Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Please read CTM's posts in this thread. (# 26,30,45 and 48). He is more eloquent than I am but this is basically what I am saying. A lot of times I disagree with him, but he is absolutely right. All I am hearing from the left on this board on this subject is how the Federal Govt (Bush) is bad. This is evident on the national level (MSM, RFK Jr. Al Sharpton playing the race card yesterday). Can't you leave your bias and hatred and politics out of this and think? The only thing that would please some of you would be if Bush stood on top of the Superdome and parted the waters in NO like Moses and led the people out that way.
Max Fischer Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I didn't make it in a vacuum, I qualified it the same way you are!!!! Again, read the whole post, you !@#$ing idiot! 426888[/snapback] Yes, you did. You tried to make a point and it was ridiculous. Maybe you should spend less time spending every waking minute on this board playing the elitist super genius. That way you wouldn't ironically use third grade retorts to defend your superior intellect among us lesser beings. Pretty pathetic really.
LabattBlue Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Finally some sensible talk on this board. The evacuation plans are to be made by the local and state governments, not FEMA. I saw pictures last night of scoresof school busses and city busses sitting in their parking lot under water. I can see that the water rushed in fast and when the levee broke, there wasn't time to move them. But that was Tuesday. Monday evening, they should have been on the move , if not in NO itself, at least in the suburbs helping people there. Very poor planning and execution by the mayor and governor. FEMA is ALWAYS called in later. It takes time to set up the infrastructure to get the stuff there. To blame FEMA is totally wrong. 426743[/snapback] Excellent point and something that should have definitely been part of the city's disaster plan.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Can I pick? 426887[/snapback] Aren't you counter-terrorism... Just stick to blowing up buildings for training purposes. But, really if crap like this was said after 911... We would all be crying holy hell. IT IS ALL IN POOR TASTE AND UNBECOMING FROM THE EXPERTS OF THIS COUNTRY.
KnightRider Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 what do you do about making a plan that *appears* to be so good - that you encourage people not to leave? Should you announce that you have food/water for 1 week for 50k people? Or do you say - you will live if you come here, but we have limited supplies and only 10k show up? 426723[/snapback] Donner, party of 45....
Mike in Syracuse Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Please read CTM's posts in this thread. (# 26,30,45 and 48). He is more eloquent than I am but this is basically what I am saying. A lot of times I disagree with him, but he is absolutely right. All I am hearing from the left on this board on this subject is how the Federal Govt (Bush) is bad. This is evident on the national level (MSM, RFK Jr. Al Sharpton playing the race card yesterday). Can't you leave your bias and hatred and politics out of this and think? The only thing that would please some of you would be if Bush stood on top of the Superdome and parted the waters in NO like Moses and led the people out that way. 426895[/snapback] And all you hear from the left is blind apologies and excuses, neither side is helping the situation. The response has been delayed, confused and generally pathetic regardless of the circumstances. Who's to blame can be determined later. Bush, like every previous president is guilty of appointing cronies to positions rather than qualified individuals. In a perfect world New Orleans would have become a military operation rather than a civilian cluster fugg. There in NO organization in the world more capable of rescuing, securing and protecting the citizens of the U.S. Unfortunately there still exists a terror of the "military taking over". Give New Orleans to the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines and this situation is a fraction of what it is today. At least they can freaking communicate with each other. Shocking that Bahgdad is a safer place than New Orleans right now.
Dan Gross Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 The only thing that would please some of you would be if Bush stood on top of the Superdome and parted the waters in NO like Moses and led the people out that way. 426895[/snapback] Only if he gave them all nice steak dinners first...and of course then the response would still be "what took so long...?" I am far from a Bush apologist, voted against him twice, but the problems that caused the levee breaches go much farther back than his, or even his father's term, as President. It was 25 years ago when they established the guidelines for the levees to be able to withstand what is now classified as a Category 3 hurricane. Even if the ACE had all the funds it had asked for this year, the work they would have done with the money would not have prevented the breaches. And the problems that are are happening now are happening despite an unprecedented show of support so far by federal agencies. There have been mistakes made all over the place in response to this, but I'd rather our government focus on saving lives and restoring order right now rather than blame-storming and spinning.
SDS Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Aren't you counter-terrorism... Just stick to blowing up buildings for training purposes. But, really if crap like this was said after 911... We would all be crying holy hell. IT IS ALL IN POOR TASTE AND UNBECOMING FROM THE EXPERTS OF THIS COUNTRY. 426902[/snapback] It was a sarcastic way to point out that there isn't a means to train for the submersion of an entire city.
stuckincincy Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Can I pick? 426887[/snapback] "Deep Penetrators - The Movie".
Ralonzo Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 dont' forget the ones that joined in on the looting 426741[/snapback] Like the cops?
KnightRider Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Typical. If he was Rudy G. you'd give him a pass. Your partisanship is so transparent. NOT to downgrade the horrific situation on 9/11 but Katrina is significantly worse in every way, shape and form. Why doesn't GWB get accolades from you for 9/11 but a pass now? One can only guess . . . 426801[/snapback] Actually you show your colors by looking at only the R after his name. He is probably more liberal than JFK...
Taro T Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 If my neighbor throws up a moat of water around me then keeps digging deeper around my effing ass... And then says "Everything will be okay... Reap the rewards!" Then that system fails? I would be a screaming matha effer! Cloud it all you want, NOLA weathered the hurricane. Kinda like a guy stuffing 10 pounds of shist in a 5 pound bag then blaming the guy who gets covered in crap when the bag breaks when it was decided to start using a cheaper 5 pound bag. Hint: The guy stuffing the crap are the feds. 426880[/snapback] Could you please explain to me why it is the federal government's responsibility to have levees that will withstand category 6 huricanes and nuclear explosions in New Orleans? Why couldn't New Orleans or the state of Louisiana have done anything to upgrade the levees? The residents and local governments (and yes the federal government as well) have know for a long time (perhaps ever since people started moving to New Orleans) that the area can, will, and does get hit with major hurricanes. (There was a major near miss in the early 90's when Andrew came through and did a number on Baton Rouge ~70 miles down the road.) Can we dispense with the blame for a few days? Can we allow the people that are trying to save the desperate people down there to do their jobs without saying (and I paraphrase (it is not an exact quote): "if the evil whitehouse would only have let us spend $18 billion (source: WSJ Wednesday) we could have made designed and built levees that would not have failed; just like the 17 federal levees (out of nearly 100 total levees that failed) that did fail in the early 90's Mississippi River flood (source:WSJ Tuesday (might have been Monday edition, I do not still have that one in front of me))")? It is horrible what happened and there will be plenty of time - years - to decide where and how to cast blame. Can we for now just say a prayer for the people down there and write a check to our favorite relief organization? I apologise for the tone of this reply; I realize that you are as frustrated as I am and many other posters are at the inability to do anything more to help these people now, but I just needed to get this off my chest. Dave.
Dan Gross Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 "Deep Penetrators - The Movie". 426920[/snapback] Is Jenna Jameson in that one?
Ghost of BiB Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Aren't you counter-terrorism... Just stick to blowing up buildings for training purposes. But, really if crap like this was said after 911... We would all be crying holy hell. IT IS ALL IN POOR TASTE AND UNBECOMING FROM THE EXPERTS OF THIS COUNTRY. 426902[/snapback] Actually, combating WMD. A lot of terror-WMD related planning from the consequence management aspect is exactly the same. The events in NO are very similar to what one would expect from a terrorist WMD attack, except worse. Many of the same response packages that would have been energized for a nuclear bomb in the superdome are the same ones being activated now. As I've tried to point out a dozen times in various threads for anyone willing to listen, there are a lot of moving pieces to this. A lot of those pieces broke down, starting with the City Government before the storm ever hit. Now, no matter what gets said everyone is casting stones and calling blame, mostly on the Federal Response when they have ABSOLUTELY NO FRIGGING IDEA WHAT THAT RESPONSE IS OR WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE!!! There, did I say it loud enough this time? Turn off the TV and get ready for the football game. People aren't doing themselves any favors in a message board version of inner city anarchy.
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 1. The Mayor needed to exercise leadership in not letting NO invest in a process where they were going to get flooded out by a cat 5 hit. I think we will have to do the bes we can until we get a more effective leader in the Presidency though this will be several years. 426806[/snapback] Wrong! I'm sure that this was on every wish list sent to Washington for the past 40 years. Everyone knew that the levees could only withstand a Cat 3. I didn't know that the mayor has authority over the Corps of Engineers. The mayor: 1. Issued orders to evacuate the city. 2. Opened up the largest, safest facility at his disposal for those who could not leave. 3. His police force of 1500 or so was woefully inadequate to handle a situation of this magnitude and I'm sure that most of them had their own worries to think about. Sorry, but disaster relief is the primary responsibility of the state and federal governments who have control of Fema, National Guard, Federal transportation, etc. Where the locals screwed up was in not securing firearm outlets throughout the city before looters could get to them. Although this was probably not seen as a problem by the gun nuts on the board. Nothing like a well armed populace.
TheMadCap Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Like the cops? 426922[/snapback] Wow....That would be kind of funny if it wasn't so disgusting...
Gambler Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I just want to know if he had any sort of a plan for maintaining thousands of people at the Superdome long-term. I do recall him saying "Bring food and water, because we can't supply it, and plan on being there for a week". Now he's bitching because there's no food and water, and it's been less than a week? And he put thousands of people there, and didn't have a plan for getting them out??? His emergency plan must read like the Underpants Gnomes' business model...1) Go to Superdome 2) ??? 3) Profit. This guy's a !@#$ing idiot. The city's his responsibility, he dropped the ball, and now he's trying to pass the buck. With leadership like that, it's no wonder the city's !@#$ed. 426654[/snapback] What a ridiculous and uninformed response! A disaster of this magnitude is far beyond the scope of a City to provide the resources. That is why FEMA was created. Under the current inept administration, FEMA was incorporated into the Dept. of Homeland Security and took a backseat to shaking down old ladies and children at airports. I don't know for sure if the Mayor is an idiot or not, but I do know of a certain idiot at the highest level who has totally screwed up the priorities of a nation! Read the story here and maybe you'll be more informed http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050902/ts_nm/...na_criticism_dc
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