PTS Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 This guy is irrate and I think deservingly so. http://www.wben.com/newsroom/ondemand.php "I'm probably gonna get in so much trouble, it's not even funny. They probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview." I support the war but he's dead on when he talks about the response in comparsion to the war and the tsunami relief. Sounds like the governor is dropping the ball according to this guy.
sweet baboo Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 This guy is irrate and I think deservingly so. http://www.wben.com/newsroom/ondemand.php "I'm probably gonna get in so much trouble, it's not even funny. They probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview." I support the war but he's dead on when he talks about the response in comparsion to the war and the tsunami relief. Sounds like the governor is dropping the ball according to this guy. 426635[/snapback] I just want to know if he had any sort of a plan for maintaining thousands of people at the Superdome long-term. I do recall him saying "Bring food and water, because we can't supply it, and plan on being there for a week". Now he's bitching because there's no food and water, and it's been less than a week? And he put thousands of people there, and didn't have a plan for getting them out??? His emergency plan must read like the Underpants Gnomes' business model... 1) Go to Superdome 2) ??? 3) Profit. This guy's a !@#$ing idiot. The city's his responsibility, he dropped the ball, and now he's trying to pass the buck. With leadership like that, it's no wonder the city's !@#$ed.
PTS Posted September 2, 2005 Author Posted September 2, 2005 I just want to know if he had any sort of a plan for maintaining thousands of people at the Superdome long-term. I do recall him saying "Bring food and water, because we can't supply it, and plan on being there for a week". Now he's bitching because there's no food and water, and it's been less than a week? And he put thousands of people there, and didn't have a plan for getting them out??? His emergency plan must read like the Underpants Gnomes' business model...1) Go to Superdome 2) ??? 3) Profit. This guy's a !@#$ing idiot. The city's his responsibility, he dropped the ball, and now he's trying to pass the buck. With leadership like that, it's no wonder the city's !@#$ed. 426654[/snapback] In his defense, I don't think he has nearly the resources needed to fix this problem.
BuffaloRebound Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 And the scumbag media will continue to give them uninterrupted airtime while questioning the federal response. Just once, I'd love for one of these concerned-for-humanity-ambulance-chaser 'journalists' to ask the mayor tough questions or ask the people in the streets of New Orleans why they were still in their homes and didn't heed the evacuation warnings and if they were too poor why they didn't get to the Superdome. But these are good people shooting at the cops and rescuers and looting TV's. Good people. Government = bad people.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 In his defense, I don't think he has nearly the resources needed to fix this problem. 426657[/snapback] Doesn't take many resources to see that putting ten thousand people into a shelter with no food, no water, and no plan for getting them out is bad !@#$ing management. It doesn't take a hell of a lot to go to the state or federal level and say "I'm putting ten thousand people into a cave, I don't have the resources to get them out or get food and water in if things go to sh--, is there anything you can commit to me so I can plan?" And that wasn't a spur-of-the-moment plan, either...they've known for years that they'd use the Superdome as a shelter, and were caught completely unprepared in almost every sense. And that's just one example. The allocation of resources he had was apparently ad-hoc, his management has been so poor that he's lost a good chunk of those resources (having about 20% of your police force walk of the job in the middle of a crisis is not evidence of good management), the external authorities apparently have no idea what's going on inside the city. New Orleans' emergency planning was clearly bull sh--...and this bozo's blaming everyone but the person who was the primary point of responsibility for emergency planning: himself. I can accept that he's overwhelmed by events - who wouldn't be? But he was showing himself to be unable to handle this well before it happened, and like a true incompetent, he's blaming everyone else for it.
N.Y. Orangeman Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Doesn't take many resources to see that putting ten thousand people into a shelter with no food, no water, and no plan for getting them out is bad !@#$ing management. It doesn't take a hell of a lot to go to the state or federal level and say "I'm putting ten thousand people into a cave, I don't have the resources to get them out or get food and water in if things go to sh--, is there anything you can commit to me so I can plan?" And that wasn't a spur-of-the-moment plan, either...they've known for years that they'd use the Superdome as a shelter, and were caught completely unprepared in almost every sense. And that's just one example. The allocation of resources he had was apparently ad-hoc, his management has been so poor that he's lost a good chunk of those resources (having about 20% of your police force walk of the job in the middle of a crisis is not evidence of good management), the external authorities apparently have no idea what's going on inside the city. New Orleans' emergency planning was clearly bull sh--...and this bozo's blaming everyone but the person who was the primary point of responsibility for emergency planning: himself. I can accept that he's overwhelmed by events - who wouldn't be? But he was showing himself to be unable to handle this well before it happened, and like a true incompetent, he's blaming everyone else for it. 426697[/snapback] Theoretically, wouldn't you want people massed for evacuation in one central, relatively-safe spot, as opposed to being strewn across the city? Christ, they started to announce this on Saturday if I am not mistaken. He obviously dropped the ball in certain areas, but there is no blame to be had on moving people there in my book.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Theoretically, wouldn't you want people massed for evacuation in one central, relatively-safe spot, as opposed to being strewn across the city? Christ, they started to announce this on Saturday if I am not mistaken. He obviously dropped the ball in certain areas, but there is no blame to be had on moving people there in my book. 426710[/snapback] There is if you move them somewhere where you know you can't support them, and don't have so much as a hint of a plan for moving them out. "Go to the Superdome and wait for help", when you don't know what "help" is, is a bad plan.
SDS Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 There is if you move them somewhere where you know you can't support them, and don't have so much as a hint of a plan for moving them out. "Go to the Superdome and wait for help", when you don't know what "help" is, is a bad plan. 426718[/snapback] what do you do about making a plan that *appears* to be so good - that you encourage people not to leave? Should you announce that you have food/water for 1 week for 50k people? Or do you say - you will live if you come here, but we have limited supplies and only 10k show up?
N.Y. Orangeman Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 There is if you move them somewhere where you know you can't support them, and don't have so much as a hint of a plan for moving them out. "Go to the Superdome and wait for help", when you don't know what "help" is, is a bad plan. 426718[/snapback] Though I'm not an expert on this (as is no one I've seen post on this to date), it would seem this is where FEMA and the LA gov't would step in, doesn't it? This clearly doesn't seem to be a function for the city, does it? I mean, how out of the loop do you really have to be to be unaware that people were mobilizing at the Dome for the last week?
SDS Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Though I'm not an expert on this (as is no one I've seen post on this to date), it would seem this is where FEMA and the LA gov't would step in, doesn't it? This clearly doesn't seem to be a function for the city, does it? I mean, how out of the loop do you really have to be to be unaware that people were mobilizing at the Dome for the last week? 426727[/snapback] see, you are incredulous at something that didn't happen. It is the convention center that FEMA was unaware of. Also, and someone correct me if I am wrong, they only started diverting people there AFTER Katrina blew through. The breakdown was in the communication between what was happening on the ground and the controlling authorities at FEMA.
nobody Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 The powers that be have always been calling the superdome the "shelter of last resort". I don't think they ever thought they would have to use it.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Doesn't take many resources to see that putting ten thousand people into a shelter with no food, no water, and no plan for getting them out is bad !@#$ing management. It doesn't take a hell of a lot to go to the state or federal level and say "I'm putting ten thousand people into a cave, I don't have the resources to get them out or get food and water in if things go to sh--, is there anything you can commit to me so I can plan?" And that wasn't a spur-of-the-moment plan, either...they've known for years that they'd use the Superdome as a shelter, and were caught completely unprepared in almost every sense. And that's just one example. The allocation of resources he had was apparently ad-hoc, his management has been so poor that he's lost a good chunk of those resources (having about 20% of your police force walk of the job in the middle of a crisis is not evidence of good management), the external authorities apparently have no idea what's going on inside the city. New Orleans' emergency planning was clearly bull sh--...and this bozo's blaming everyone but the person who was the primary point of responsibility for emergency planning: himself. I can accept that he's overwhelmed by events - who wouldn't be? But he was showing himself to be unable to handle this well before it happened, and like a true incompetent, he's blaming everyone else for it. 426697[/snapback] It appears that politiciams from the Mayor, to the Governor to the President are ducking and covering as best they can to save their political hides here. 1. The Mayor really screwed up by not putting in place a better response plan to a situation which was not predictable at all and came about in a shorttime (4-5 days from a Cat 1 storm skirting FLA to a cat 5 down NO's throat which particularly at the end of summer is limited time to communicate effectively an evacuation order) but despite being not predictable was forseeable and a better plan should have been in place. The Mayor has the most direct reponsibility for this. However, having screwed up big time, those who are there are in utter desperation as their ability to move has been pretty much cut-off in Lake Orleans. The response has been so ineffective by those with greater resources above the Mayor in the foodchain that whining does seem to be the most effective way to get help right here right now (ex. NPR pinned the FEMA Director about the dead body of a woman in a wheelchair being eaten by a rat at the Convention Center -or something similar related to this- and Brown knew nothing about the several thousand people who gathered at that site and were there several days without food. Within 45 minutes of this pinioning water and MREs ineffectively arrived at the site. The folks there should have heeded the mandatory evacuation order but whining did get some food there). The Mayor screwed up bady and people died and now he is dealing as best he can with the horrible situation he in significant part helped create. 2. The Governor is clearly overwhelmed by the huge area of devastation she must manage and the complete breakdown of events and leadership at the local level. She has fell back to ineffective musings about the military coming in with shoot-to-kill orders as she tries to shift/share blame with the Fed as the local officials have screwed up. 3. The Prez has unfortunately run into this hit coming while he was still officially on vacation and this makes dealing with Cindy Sheehans wails look like a walk in the park for him. He correctly booted action and frontline responsiblity to FEMA which is in position to acutally do stuff. However, given the screw-ups of the locals dealing with this non predictablee but forseeable local situation he is incapable of doing anything effective here for the moment. It's bad.
SilverNRed Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I just want to know if he had any sort of a plan for maintaining thousands of people at the Superdome long-term. I do recall him saying "Bring food and water, because we can't supply it, and plan on being there for a week". Now he's bitching because there's no food and water, and it's been less than a week? And he put thousands of people there, and didn't have a plan for getting them out??? His emergency plan must read like the Underpants Gnomes' business model...1) Go to Superdome 2) ??? 3) Profit. This guy's a !@#$ing idiot. The city's his responsibility, he dropped the ball, and now he's trying to pass the buck. With leadership like that, it's no wonder the city's !@#$ed. 426654[/snapback] No kidding. And nice Underpants Gnomes reference. It also doesn't help that a sizeable chunk of the NO police department abandoned the city and the rest of them are trapped in their police stations fighting off roving gangs like its the Alamo. Seriously, there are people in the city making it nearly impossible to rescue everyone and we're blaming the people who can't get in to stop them? What?
sweet baboo Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 No kidding. And nice Underpants Gnomes reference. It also doesn't help that a sizeable chunk of the NO police department abandoned the city and the rest of them are trapped in their police stations fighting off roving gangs like its the Alamo. Seriously, there are people in the city making it nearly impossible to rescue everyone and we're blaming the people who can't get in to stop them? What? 426740[/snapback] dont' forget the ones that joined in on the looting
Wacka Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Finally some sensible talk on this board. The evacuation plans are to be made by the local and state governments, not FEMA. I saw pictures last night of scoresof school busses and city busses sitting in their parking lot under water. I can see that the water rushed in fast and when the levee broke, there wasn't time to move them. But that was Tuesday. Monday evening, they should have been on the move , if not in NO itself, at least in the suburbs helping people there. Very poor planning and execution by the mayor and governor. FEMA is ALWAYS called in later. It takes time to set up the infrastructure to get the stuff there. To blame FEMA is totally wrong.
stuckincincy Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I'm curious why NO's City Council, or whatever they call it there, have been off the radar screen. In cities I've lived in, that ilk is continually grousing, accusing, fighting, exaggerating, and getting their mugs before the media.
N.Y. Orangeman Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Finally some sensible talk on this board. The evacuation plans are to be made by the local and state governments, not FEMA. I saw pictures last night of scoresof school busses and city busses sitting in their parking lot under water. I can see that the water rushed in fast and when the levee broke, there wasn't time to move them. But that was Tuesday. Monday evening, they should have been on the move , if not in NO itself, at least in the suburbs helping people there. Very poor planning and execution by the mayor and governor. FEMA is ALWAYS called in later. It takes time to set up the infrastructure to get the stuff there. To blame FEMA is totally wrong. 426743[/snapback] No one deserves a pass on this one. Are you defending FEMA as an agency or as an agency in the Bush government? Just curious.
Peter Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 This is a national disaster that cries out for a national response. That is what FEMA is for. That is what the Federal government is for. Bush now is even saying the response was " not acceptable." It was not. We look really stupid. This whole situation looks more like Darfur than the world's only super power.
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