Sanners Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Jeez, seems like people are going ape sh-- to defend the President. Just a bit defensive and should probably take off the zombie blinders to see what this nation needs. When already over half the nation doesn't approve of Bush's job performance it doesn't help when he can't project the least bit of leadership. Good thing the WH brought in his Dad and Clinton to make people think something's being done. I have no doubt every level of government is doing what they can but Churchill wasn't indispensible because he knew where to put the tanks. 426218[/snapback] I also find the thread a tad too political. Is it so wrong for the average citizen to criticize the federal, state and local government? Why does everyone make it a Republican vs Democrat political discussion? Most of us, as Americans, seek the best for our country. This age of black and white politics is really disconcerting. Based on that, you must be a really staunch conservative Republican, with strong political connections, to support this current administration.
Campy Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I also find the thread a tad too political. Is it so wrong for the average citizen to criticize the federal, state and local government? Why does everyone make it a Republican vs Democrat political discussion? Most of us, as Americans, seek the best for our country. This age of black and white politics is really disconcerting. Based on that, you must be a really staunch conservative Republican, with strong political connections, to support this current administration. 426273[/snapback] Well thanks for keeping it apolitical
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I certainly agree with the overall gist of your post, but to play devil's advocate, it was the federal gov't that has dropped the ball over the course of many years and administrations regarding the inadequate levees. They are funded by the feds and maintained by the Army Corps of Engineers afterall. As wrong as it is to place all the blame on the federal gov't, it's equally wrong to absolve them from the part they played (or didn't play as the case may be) leading up to the current situation. Just my 2 cents. 426217[/snapback] I agree Campy. I do see Bib's point, yet NOLA is a special case. The national economy reaped the rewards of a city like NOLA. It was its responsibility to protect till the end. Now that it is ruined... Keep the high ground and return the rest to nature... That means scrapping the Gulf-InterCoastal waterway. NOLA is the busiest port in the country, think they will make the sacrifice?
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I don't believe that for a single minute. It doesn't matter WHO'S President...there are going to be people who are either left behind b/c they are without means to leave, and the stubborn who think it can't happen here, or that they will be safe. And all the Republicans would be blaming a President Kerry for not being quick enough in his response. A hurricane as strong as this is going to take lives...and unfortunately, this one will be the deadliest in American history. It shows us how fragile life really is, and how material things are really secondary. Mike 426194[/snapback] It was deep, deep sarcasm anyway. It wouldn't have mattered who was president; like people have been saying, this has been a catastrophe in the making for years, even decades. The natural reaction in situations like this is to look for someone to blame; the federal government is a convenient target. The real shame of it is the number of people who are already playing partisan politics with a fundamentally non-partisan event. There's plenty of valid lessons to be learned in this disaster (and they will be learned. They're already being learned. We now know if you concentrate on search & rescue and support over maintaining order, you won't accomplish either. Control must come first in a disaster, even at the expense of lives.) But a small but noisy set of zealots will never learn anything from situations like this, just use it to justify their own narrow opinions. But I think the original sarcastic post made that point more succinctly...
BillnutinHouston Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 You if this idiotic country had elected Kerry, New Orleans would still be destroyed, but all the people would at least be safe. 426096[/snapback] Thank you, I needed a good laugh!!!!!
Sanners Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Well thanks for keeping it apolitical 426278[/snapback] Sorry, I was following the thread and quoted it incorrectly. That did come out wrong.
TheMadKat Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 What about foreign aid? Where is Great Britain or any other "ally" to help us in our times of need? We ran to aid the countries effected by the tsunami and many other natural disasters around the world. We (Americans) are expected to provide aid to the people of these countries, but it seems to fall on deaf ears when we need assistance.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 What about foreign aid? Where is Great Britain or any other "ally" to help us in our times of need? We ran to aid the countries effected by the tsunami and many other natural disasters around the world. We (Americans) are expected to provide aid to the people of these countries, but it seems to fall on deaf ears when we need assistance. 426301[/snapback] Only about 20 countries have offered so far. It's in another thread, somewhere. People have got to stop being so quick to complain. The news is moving faster than we can absorb it, it seems.
TheMadKat Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Only about 20 countries have offered so far. It's in another thread, somewhere. People have got to stop being so quick to complain. The news is moving faster than we can absorb it, it seems. 426306[/snapback] Thats good to hear, I had not heard.
philburger1 Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 The taxpayers of the USA (thanks to you know who!) are pissing away nearly $6 billion dollars a month for the indefinite future in Iraq. The total tab is near $300 billion and projected to reach $600 billion at least. There are thousands of innocent poor people, who followed orders, suffering and dying at the New Orleans convention center of dehydration, etc. because they have no freakin water to drink. Three days after the storm the head of FEMA says "we didn't know they were there." What a tragic leadership vacuum in Washington. That applies to the vacationing Congress as well as the Moron in Chief. 426268[/snapback] Last year, we spent 1.5 BILLION dollars of taxpayers's money to pay for medical services for ILLEGAL aliens. How about we get a nice fat check from M-E-H-I-C-H-O to pay for the rescue efforts instead?
SDS Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 There are thousands of innocent poor people, who followed orders, suffering and dying at the New Orleans convention center of dehydration, etc. because they have no freakin water to drink. Three days after the storm the head of FEMA says "we didn't know they were there." What a tragic leadership vacuum in Washington. That applies to the vacationing Congress as well as the Moron in Chief. 426268[/snapback] Again, the death of logic is displayed in your post. So, "leadership" was the barrier between the Convention Center and FEMA? Do you think that someone at FEMA took the call about the CC and forgot to take the message? Clearly, if FEMA didn't know - then someone didn't TELL FEMA. Maybe the situation is so chaotic, communication channels are so poor that what appears to be a "no brainer" is actually not?
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Three days after the storm the head of FEMA says "we didn't know they were there." 426268[/snapback] I've got to believe someone's head is going to roll for that. I can't blame the office of the president for the mistake (it's not like any president goes into the field and rides herd on every single detail)...but I feel it's perfectly justified to blame the president if someone isn't swung from the yardarm for the grotesque !@#$-up.
BRH Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Clearly, if FEMA didn't know - then someone didn't TELL FEMA. 426313[/snapback] Or nobody at FEMA was, like, watching CNN or anything.
SDS Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I've got to believe someone's head is going to roll for that. I can't blame the office of the president for the mistake (it's not like any president goes into the field and rides herd on every single detail)...but I feel it's perfectly justified to blame the president if someone isn't swung from the yardarm for the grotesque !@#$-up. 426317[/snapback] But is it the case that it appears to be so obvious from 1000 miles away, but with so much happening so quickly that those close to the situation just didn't see it?
Sanners Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 The real shame of it is the number of people who are already playing partisan politics with a fundamentally non-partisan event. A much more elegant response to my position.
SDS Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Or nobody at FEMA was, like, watching CNN or anything. 426319[/snapback] well, maybe they weren't? Or maybe they are so inundated with everything else that they can't get to it all? Are you suggesting that there are scores of FEMA employees kicking back watching the news, seeing the CC and saying - "huh, someone should do something about that," and then flip the channel?
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Again, the death of logic is displayed in your post. So, "leadership" was the barrier between the Convention Center and FEMA? Do you think that someone at FEMA took the call about the CC and forgot to take the message? Clearly, if FEMA didn't know - then someone didn't TELL FEMA. Maybe the situation is so chaotic, communication channels are so poor that what appears to be a "no brainer" is actually not? 426313[/snapback] I think a lot of people simply aren't understanding "chaos". "Chaos" is something that Jack Bauer resolves in 59 minutes, 24 times a day, so why should real life be any different? Frankly, people (including the media - especially the media) need to start realizing that New Orleans literally isn't a city anymore. Somebody name one functioning municipal service New Orleans has right now. Right now, we might as well be trying to support and evacuate 50k people out of the Amazon river basin. New Orleans, from a functional standpoint, is roughly that far away from the rest of the country. And people are surprised things aren't going perfectly?
SDS Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I think a lot of people simply aren't understanding "chaos". "Chaos" is something that Jack Bauer resolves in 59 minutes, 24 times a day, so why should real life be any different? Frankly, people (including the media - especially the media) need to start realizing that New Orleans literally isn't a city anymore. Somebody name one functioning municipal service New Orleans has right now. Right now, we might as well be trying to support and evacuate 50k people out of the Amazon river basin. New Orleans, from a functional standpoint, is roughly that far away from the rest of the country. And people are surprised things aren't going perfectly? 426325[/snapback] on top of that, I don't think that there is an appreciation that many of the people who would normally be helping in this situation lost their own homes, have their own families, and are perhaps fearful for their own lives. How many here would drive a bus into NO with CNN reporting that they are shooting at Medivac helicopters?
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Or nobody at FEMA was, like, watching CNN or anything. 426319[/snapback] Uh, no. They're busy responding to a major natural disaster. Really, if ANYONE at FEMA was sitting around watching CNN right now, you'd be shitting a brick. And if you're going to make that argument anyway, you could just as easily turn it on its head and ask why CNN didn't contact FEMA and say "Hey, did you know...?" If CNN's the only people who knew a crisis was developing, why didn't they do something about it? Looking for someone to blame right now is bull sh--. In a crisis, communications always breaks down. The Pentagon's mission is by definition crisis management, they spend billions of dollars on communication, and they plan on communication breaking down anyway. It's what happens. If you know a way to keep it from happening, permanently for all eternity, patent it and you'll be a rich man...
rockpile Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Remembering a two and a half hour drive from the Holland Tunnel to the Brooklyn Bridge on a Saturday afternoon, with no crisis in sight, I can only imagine trying to evac a city during an emergency. What does make me sick to my stomach now is seeing the Gulf Coast look like a third word disaster area. It seems like we could get some food, medicine, water and big guys with guns to restore order in there by now. <ding> Whoops! Gotta go! I keep seeing people bring up the fact that many didn't evacuate. How many of you live in large cities? I've lived in NYC for 9 years now and until just recently my wife and I never owned a car while here. I'm sure the same goes for many city dwellers in the country. If a storm like that hit NYC most of the people in the city wouldn't be able to get out because they don't own vehicles. The fact is that there just isn't a reason to own a car in a major metropolitan area. How exactly were all these people supposed to leave if they didn't have the means? I'm not talking about the people who stayed behind to "protect" their property; I'm talking about the masses of people that didn't have the ability to get out of the city. And I'm sure the busses they offered would have done the job considering they can't get the enough busses to get people out of there now, and they've had twice as long to do so. 426157[/snapback]
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