UB2SF Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 While there are certainly some who engage in the blame-game as a sort of socio-political sport, there are others who are simply outraged at the post-Katrina situation and whose cries of "how could this have happened?" are perceived simply as blame. Count me in the latter camp. How can someone see what's going on right now and NOT be outraged at the lack of appropriate response? Have you seen what's going on at the New Orleans Convention Center (as of today, Thurs Sept 1st)??? If not, go to MSNBC.com and watch the video report they have. Four days, just waiting, with no authorities there and no deliveries of food, water, or medical supplies. To me, "blame" and "accountability" are very different from one another, although they are often conflated by those looking to start a simplistic argument. I'm talking about accountability. And to figure out who's accountable for not dealing with the big issues here -- prevention, planning, and response -- one has to go pretty far up the totem poles of government. President Bush and the congressional leadership rushed back to Washington on a Sunday night to grandstand about Terry Schiavo, but it takes them 5 days to convene a session on one of the worst tragedies in US history? I have to stop typing now, because my blood pressure is boiling over, and go write another check to the red cross.
BuffaloRebound Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 Accountability? You blame the governement for people not having the sense to evacuate 48 hours in advance. You don't need money to have some common sense. At this point, I simply don't know how anyone can claim the response has been inadequate given the enormity of the situation.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 At this point, I simply don't know how anyone can claim the response has been inadequate given the enormity of the situation. 426143[/snapback] Because hindsight is 20/20. Except after the storm passed, people were still saying in hindsight that the hurricane was over-hyped and New Orleans was lucky. So maybe hindsight is just 20/40.
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 Sen. Landrieu (sp?) from is on CNN right now saying very smart things. In part: "I have a lot of anger right now, but I can't blame anybody. There's no one to blame." Dumbass reporter is trying to get her to say that the response is completely insufficient, just to see if he can get the story. She absolutely refuses to bite, citing point after point of what's being done and thanking everyone under the sun (absolutely gushing about the President; it's almost unseemly). Reporter, of course, doesn't care, because it's not a juicy story. !@#$ing media.
Ghost of BiB Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 And then have the media report on it, interviewing only people who should've been removed from the gene pool years ago. For those of you who're Monday morning QBs: Good luck on your quest. There's no way in hell you'll ever get whatever the fug it is you're looking for. 426102[/snapback] I disagree. Oh, they will. They can always find it somewhere. They'll link it, too. Isn't the information age wonderful? You can have an opinion on the internet, and because someone read it, it becomes a fact!
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 I disagree. Oh, they will. They can always find it somewhere. They'll link it, too. Isn't the information age wonderful? You can have an opinion on the internet, and because someone read it, it becomes a fact! 426149[/snapback] Did you know that Bush actually asked the CIA to divert the hurricane to New Orleans to raise the price of oil for his oil cronies? Rense.com, baby, Rense.com! It's right above the "actual footage" of the huge "UFO battle" over Los Angeles.
UB2SF Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 Accountability? You blame the governement for people not having the sense to evacuate 48 hours in advance. You don't need money to have some common sense. At this point, I simply don't know how anyone can claim the response has been inadequate given the enormity of the situation. 426143[/snapback] No, I did not blame the government for failures in individual common sense. That's certainly a big issue here. But not everyone has the ability to evacuate. You say "you don't need money to have some common sense," which makes me wonder if you have any experience with life inside big cities, especially in cities like New Orleans where the poverty rate is well above the national average. The reality is that there are thousands of people in every major city who simply would not be able to evacuate if the order was given. An elderly couple with no car and no immediate family? -- those may very well be the kind of people seen on MSNBC laying dead in front of the New Orleans Convention Center. To your point that no one could claim the response has been inadequate, I'll again refer to the Convention Center. People were told that if they couldn't (or wouldn't) evacuate, they should congregate at the Convention Center, the Superdome, and other shelters. Once the storm passed, they were told to wait for help and transportation. Now, several days later, there have been no deliveries, no assistance, and no authorities. The MSNBC cameraman was incredulous to find the only "authority" figure who visited the scene was Harry Connick Jr. Harry Freaking Connick Jr.! I am on the other side of the fence, oh fellow Bills fan: I can't see how anyone could claim the response has been adequate. Here is the MSNBC video page in case you're interested.
MDH Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 Accountability? You blame the governement for people not having the sense to evacuate 48 hours in advance. You don't need money to have some common sense. At this point, I simply don't know how anyone can claim the response has been inadequate given the enormity of the situation. 426143[/snapback] I keep seeing people bring up the fact that many didn't evacuate. How many of you live in large cities? I've lived in NYC for 9 years now and until just recently my wife and I never owned a car while here. I'm sure the same goes for many city dwellers in the country. If a storm like that hit NYC most of the people in the city wouldn't be able to get out because they don't own vehicles. The fact is that there just isn't a reason to own a car in a major metropolitan area. How exactly were all these people supposed to leave if they didn't have the means? I'm not talking about the people who stayed behind to "protect" their property; I'm talking about the masses of people that didn't have the ability to get out of the city. And I'm sure the busses they offered would have done the job considering they can't get the enough busses to get people out of there now, and they've had twice as long to do so.
/dev/null Posted September 1, 2005 Posted September 1, 2005 I'm talking about the masses of people that didn't have the ability to get out of the city. And I'm sure the busses they offered would have done the job considering they can't get the enough busses to get people out of there now, and they've had twice as long to do so. 426157[/snapback] Its all Bushs fault everyone doesn't have a car in every pot and a chicken in every garage!
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 I keep seeing people bring up the fact that many didn't evacuate. How many of you live in large cities? I've lived in NYC for 9 years now and until just recently my wife and I never owned a car while here. I'm sure the same goes for many city dwellers in the country. If a storm like that hit NYC most of the people in the city wouldn't be able to get out because they don't own vehicles. The fact is that there just isn't a reason to own a car in a major metropolitan area. How exactly were all these people supposed to leave if they didn't have the means? I'm not talking about the people who stayed behind to "protect" their property; I'm talking about the masses of people that didn't have the ability to get out of the city. And I'm sure the busses they offered would have done the job considering they can't get the enough busses to get people out of there now, and they've had twice as long to do so. 426157[/snapback] Mass transit in New Orleans isn't (wasn't ) quite what it is in NYC, though. A car's more necessary there. Most of the people who didn't own cars, didn't because they couldn't afford them.
Ghost of BiB Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 This is bordering on really, really stupid from a lot of people who are truly, truly clueless. This isn't the first time major cities have been evacuated for a major hurricane. Out of all of them, as far as I know that's the only one under sea level. When a city bus is shown under water, it means it didn't take a bunch of people somewhere. It got left, parked. Take them where? Who cares? People can live three days without food and water would have been easier to get to them on dryer land. When you want to blame government, remember that there are city and local governments too. Cross anyone's mind that NO wasn't managed too well? The spin is somehow that the federal government let them down. I still don't see how so. By law, and also common sense it's not a federal responsibility to have every city in America covered for every eventuality. That's what local and State governments are for. Yes, this is unprecedented, but also not hard to figure out.
/dev/null Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 When you want to blame government, remember that there are city and local governments too. Cross anyone's mind that NO wasn't managed too well? The spin is somehow that the federal government let them down. I still don't see how so. By law, and also common sense it's not a federal responsibility to have every city in America covered for every eventuality. That's what local and State governments are for. 426171[/snapback] Mayor of NO? Govenor of LA? but... but... but... I've HEARD of GW Bush! gotta be his fault. why didn't he get 'er done?
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 While there are certainly some who engage in the blame-game as a sort of socio-political sport, there are others who are simply outraged at the post-Katrina situation and whose cries of "how could this have happened?" are perceived simply as blame. Count me in the latter camp. How can someone see what's going on right now and NOT be outraged at the lack of appropriate response? Have you seen what's going on at the New Orleans Convention Center (as of today, Thurs Sept 1st)??? If not, go to MSNBC.com and watch the video report they have. Four days, just waiting, with no authorities there and no deliveries of food, water, or medical supplies. To me, "blame" and "accountability" are very different from one another, although they are often conflated by those looking to start a simplistic argument. I'm talking about accountability. And to figure out who's accountable for not dealing with the big issues here -- prevention, planning, and response -- one has to go pretty far up the totem poles of government. President Bush and the congressional leadership rushed back to Washington on a Sunday night to grandstand about Terry Schiavo, but it takes them 5 days to convene a session on one of the worst tragedies in US history? I have to stop typing now, because my blood pressure is boiling over, and go write another check to the red cross. 426134[/snapback] Count me into that your camp also. Of course they planned, analyized, studied (okay maybe half studied with regards to levees and hurricanes), and what not. Things can still fail miserably? But, don't worry. They worked their butts off planned, analyized, studied (okay maybe half studied with regards to levees and hurriccanes), and what not. They gave it the ole college try and the product still sucked. Call it what you like. Who really cares? Sunshine up everybody's arse! Typical government. Kudos and thanks!
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Mayor of NO?Govenor of LA? but... but... but... I've HEARD of GW Bush! gotta be his fault. why didn't he get 'er done? 426174[/snapback] Yes... It is the federal gov't and subsequently the Corps basically OWNED that town. NOLA doesn't excape my scorn either.
buckeyemike Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 If this idiotic country had elected Kerry, New Orleans would still be destroyed, but all the people would at least be safe. 426096[/snapback] I don't believe that for a single minute. It doesn't matter WHO'S President...there are going to be people who are either left behind b/c they are without means to leave, and the stubborn who think it can't happen here, or that they will be safe. And all the Republicans would be blaming a President Kerry for not being quick enough in his response. A hurricane as strong as this is going to take lives...and unfortunately, this one will be the deadliest in American history. It shows us how fragile life really is, and how material things are really secondary. Mike
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 You friggin' Bush apologist. Where do you get off telling us what to think? I'm not saying this is Bush's fault...but if this idiotic country had elected Kerry, New Orleans would still be destroyed, but all the people would at least be safe. 426096[/snapback] Would Kerry have gone after the Corps with a vengence and cut them? They could have stood alone as having everything and still failed in its mission in NOLA. Now they have a scapegoat (Bush). We will never know, will we?
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 In a sick way this disaster might have saved the Old Guard Army Corps of Engineers. I was preparing looking for wholesale changes with the organization starting in October for me personally. Who knows now?
Campy Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 The spin is somehow that the federal government let them down. 426171[/snapback] I certainly agree with the overall gist of your post, but to play devil's advocate, it was the federal gov't that has dropped the ball over the course of many years and administrations regarding the inadequate levees. They are funded by the feds and maintained by the Army Corps of Engineers afterall. As wrong as it is to place all the blame on the federal gov't, it's equally wrong to absolve them from the part they played (or didn't play as the case may be) leading up to the current situation. Just my 2 cents.
Max Fischer Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Jeez, seems like people are going ape sh-- to defend the President. Just a bit defensive and should probably take off the zombie blinders to see what this nation needs. When already over half the nation doesn't approve of Bush's job performance it doesn't help when he can't project the least bit of leadership. Good thing the WH brought in his Dad and Clinton to make people think something's being done. I have no doubt every level of government is doing what they can but Churchill wasn't indispensible because he knew where to put the tanks.
Gambler Posted September 2, 2005 Posted September 2, 2005 Jeez, seems like people are going ape sh-- to defend the President. Just a bit defensive and should probably take off the zombie blinders to see what this nation needs. When already over half the nation doesn't approve of Bush's job performance it doesn't help when he can't project the least bit of leadership. Good thing the WH brought in his Dad and Clinton to make people think something's being done. I have no doubt every level of government is doing what they can but Churchill wasn't indispensible because he knew where to put the tanks. 426218[/snapback] The taxpayers of the USA (thanks to you know who!) are pissing away nearly $6 billion dollars a month for the indefinite future in Iraq. The total tab is near $300 billion and projected to reach $600 billion at least. There are thousands of innocent poor people, who followed orders, suffering and dying at the New Orleans convention center of dehydration, etc. because they have no freakin water to drink. Three days after the storm the head of FEMA says "we didn't know they were there." What a tragic leadership vacuum in Washington. That applies to the vacationing Congress as well as the Moron in Chief.
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