Looting

[Campy]

11:08 P.M. - CNN reports that the Astrodome in Houston has shut its doors and will no longer accept refugees.

 

10:49 P.M. - (AP): Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco declared war on looters as 300 National Guard troops landed in New Orleans fresh from duty in Iraq. "These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will," she said.

 

That can't be good - things could get even uglier down there.

 

 

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

[Wacka]

That can't be good - things could get even uglier down there.

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

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Where do you see that? Not on CNN web site.

[Dan Gross]

Where do you see that?  Not on CNN web site.

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I saw it in the "Breaking News" at the top just now...

[DaveWBuf]

This is unreal, America is pathetic. Dubya is so worried about a gulf on the other side of the planet, but has done crap for people that live in a gulf a few hundrerd miles to his south. Screw exit strategies....yank the troops from Iraq and bring 'em home and help your own citizens. Somebody tell him that they drill for oil in New Orleans and then he'll listen or is he still stunned and pissing his pants like when he was told about the WTC getting hit by a plane.

Somehow if this happened in Florida, things would be a lot different with little brother Jeb in charge and all the rich white people that live there.

 

George W. Bush = Worst President Ever = RJ

[taterhill]

Old, but people are idiots everywhere

[Wacka]

I think it's more of the press getting things wrong as usual by not listening close enough. There are about 5000 cots on the floor of the astrodome and those may be full, but they have been sayying they can take up to 25K with the rest sleeping on the bleacher style seats (like RWS used to have).

 

I still don't see it on the CNN site.

[nick in* england]

Forget 'em. The courts will lock them up and throw away the key, just like in Britain  

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Here in Britain we don't even do that any more. We took a leaf outta the US books and decided to shoot on sight people we don't like. Better make sure you have a tube ticket if you're a Brazilian in London.

[philburger1]

This is unreal, America is pathetic.  Dubya is so worried about a gulf on the other side of the planet, but has done crap for people that live in a gulf a few hundrerd miles to his south.  Screw exit strategies....yank the troops from Iraq and bring 'em home and help your own citizens.  Somebody tell him that they drill for oil in New Orleans and then he'll listen or is he still stunned and pissing his pants like when he was told about the WTC getting hit by a plane. 

Somehow if this happened in Florida, things would be a lot different with little brother Jeb in charge and all the rich white people that live there.

 

George W. Bush = Worst President Ever = RJ

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Just saw the 3rd report in row were someone in charge in rescue efforts said they are being threatened and shot at. And that people are afraid to go in to help after having bullets fly over the head.

 

Sorry, but maybe "Whitey" wouldn't be so quick to shoot the hand that feeds him.

Plus, the mayor don there hasn't actually been a doing a Rudy G. if you know what I mean.

 

"Duh, we live in acity below sea level, but we'll have no plan to leave in case we get hit! Duh!"

[philburger1]

Here in Britain we don't even do that any more. We took a leaf outta the US books and decided to shoot on sight people we don't like. Better make sure you have a tube ticket if you're a Brazilian in London. 

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Or, you could just be riding the tube and get blown up no matter what you color is....

[Ghost of BiB]

I have a pretty good feeling that those running around shooting stuff viewed the storm not as a disaster, but as an opportunity. Many of these people are "survivors". NO has had a lot of crime issues for several years, and for whatever reason hasn't really been able to address them.

 

I'll be very interested in reading NO's hurricane evacuation plan. I plan to do that next week. I went through a total evacuation of Savannah, GA. For those who could not get out on their own, all available transportation was mustered, and thousands were evacuated inland to locations that had pre-made agreements to accept them. Anyone who wanted to go, did, and probably less than 10% remained behind.

 

As callous and cruel as it sounds, all these disaster plans have to account for a percentage of casualties. National level response plans are geared to mid to long term recovery and support operations. There is a first responder element to them, but that effort by design isn't hitting the ground for up to 96 hours. It is the responsibility of local and state government to initiate the first response. Federal forces phase in to augment and to relieve them. Local and state governments are designed for immediate response - they are not expected to have much in the way of mobile hospitals or mass shelters. That's where the federal government steps in. It takes a while for that response to take place, because the assets being mobilized are huge and cumbersome, and take a while to deploy. A large bul of these come from the DoD and are actually pre-defined as capabilities packages. FEMA is the lead agency in a disaster such as this. FEMA will make the initial evaluations or predictions, and submit to the DoD what capabilities they will need, where they think they will come up short. The DoD looks at the geographic region (one of four) and starts alerting the applicable units that possess those capabilities.

 

There are thousands upon thousand of people going into action as we speak. This is going to be a long term thing. For anyone who even takes 10 minutes to trying to understand the amount of effort here, and the obstacles that have to be overcome to exert that effort, the response to this is fantastic. People need to step away from the sensationalist talking heads for a while. Some people are going to be or have been wrote off. You think those decisions are easy to make?

 

It would be a lot better for everyone's mental state if FOX and CNN just shut up, and the armchair QB's around here went back to discussing running backs. If you're not part of the solution, you are generally part of the problem. Even as it extends to message boards. Perceptions can carry over into other aspects of life and to things beyond hurrican Katrina. Blaming folks as incompetent every time a news channel shows someone sitting in a waterlogged street is not going to help. You are seeing a microcosym of the overall situation. Don't forget that several thousand square miles have been affected. There are peple in Alabama and Mississippi that need help just as badly as those in the city. Initial, immediate resources are spread pretty thin.

 

I personally think that it is almost criminal that so many thousands remained in a city below seal level with a CAT 5 hurricane bearing down. A lot of it is personal ignorance and stupidity, but like I said, I'll be interested in reading the plan. I can't believe that there were no means available to get those people out. Federal response plans are not geared to going in and "rescuing" tens of thousands of people who aren't supposed to be there. Not unless they can be rescued days after the fact. One can blame the Federal Government for the levee situation if they want, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the response. Different office.

 

I wonder how many here have a good plan to mobilize 25,000 troops, a few hundred thousand tons of supplies and equipment, get them moved hundreds or thousands of miles into an area with no roads or communications that in many spots is underwater in a span of 12 hours or so? If you have one, please call FEMA.

[ch19079]

how about making sure they get food and water first. then try and stop looters.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

how about making sure they get food and water first. then try and stop looters. 

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That's what they've BEEN doing - prioritizing rescue over order. Turns out you can't do rescue work in chaos.

[VABills]

That's what they've BEEN doing - prioritizing rescue over order.  Turns out you can't do rescue work in chaos. 

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What you mean the rescuers don't like to get shot when they are helping? What's wrong with them? Don't they hav any compassion? I am sure this is the federal governments fault that these rescuers won't rush into a free fire zone.

[Campy]

It would be a lot better for everyone's mental state if FOX and CNN just shut up, and the armchair QB's around here went back to discussing running backs. If you're not part of the solution, you are generally part of the problem.

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As is the case most of the time, I agree with you on many levels. But at the same time, there is no denying that people much closer to the situation than us chuckleheads on football message boards are less than thrilled:

6:37 A.M. - The mayor of New Orleans is seething over what he sees as the government's slow response to his city's disaster. Ray Nagin went on WWL Radio last night to say the feds "don't have a clue what's going on." He added, "Excuse my French -- everybody in America -- but I am pissed."

 

The mayor says he needs troops and hundreds of buses to get refugees out. Nagin accused state and federal officials of "playing games" and "spinning for the cameras." He says he keeps hearing that help is coming, but "there's no beef."

 

From http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

 

I think it was kegtapr who yesterday said that there are simply no easy answers. Every passing hour it seems the news proves him right.

 

EDIT: But there is some good news for those of you too lazy to click on the link:

7:01 A.M. - Jeff Parish Emergency Operations Center Director Walter Maestri: 17th Street Canal Levee breach is now under control...not fixed...but under control.

 

6:59 A.M. - Jeff Parish Emergency Operations Center Director Walter Maestri: Civil unrest is basically under control in Orleans and Jefferson.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

As is the case most of the time, I agree with you on many levels.  But at the same time, there is no denying that people much closer to the situation than us chuckleheads on football message boards are less than thrilled:

 

From http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

 

I think it was kegtapr who yesterday said that there are simply no easy answers.  Every passing hour it seems the news proves him right.

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If I were him, I'd be less than thrilled as well. Hell, I AM less than thrilled.

 

But - and this is an important point - there's no reason to think that simply because of proximity his opinion is an informed one. Considering that he, as the mayor, has the most direct responsibility for the city, and the condition his city is in, I could easily make the argument that he is the last person anyone should go to for sound bytes on "How To Manage A Crisis 101".

 

And in fact, the breakdown in law and order that completely !@#$ed up rescue and evacuation efforts is most directly his responsibility; he's the one that made the decision to task the police with rescue at the expense of control (though in his defense, it had to be one or the other, and there was little precedent to guide him. I consider that less an "I !@#$ed up" thing than, "Holy sh--, I just learned an expensive lesson" thing.)

 

And now there's reports of the police in NO actually quitting their jobs and leaving the city. Generally when things like that start to happen it's yet more evidence of bad management. Now, maybe in normal situations Nagin is an effective mayor and has just been completely overwhelmed by events - I don't know, and very few people wouldn't be overwhelmed by this event. But that doesn't change the fact that he sure as hell hasn't been effective this week, and his screaming for assistance is fundamentally little more than asking for help executing his responsibilities he can't manage.

[Joe Fergy]

What do you want to bet that most of the "looting" is for water, food, diapers and necessities! I would be looting too since aid has not reached these folks! Survival instincts take over. (footnote: I am sure there are some people taking advantage of the situation - but the vast majority are acting out of desperation to survive.) 

 

The lead story should not be "looting," rather it should be where the hell is the FEMA plan? Where are the National Guard troops? How do we usher the aid into people in an orderly fashion.

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You got to be kidding.

[dib]

"Duh, we live in acity below sea level, but we'll have no plan to leave in case we get hit! Duh!"

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It would be an even bigger 'duh' if they rebuilt in the same area. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

[ch19079]

That's what they've BEEN doing - prioritizing rescue over order.  Turns out you can't do rescue work in chaos. 

426502[/snapback]

there is a diffrence between stopping looters and securing foods and water for refugees.

 

who cares about the TVs or clothes stolen from stores, when the people cant get food and water.

 

from what ive heard, there are limited numbers of national gaurd forces there. they should make sure food and water are available to the people, then go out and restore order. its easier to control a smaller area where people can get what they need, than it is to restore order to an entire city.