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nick in* england Veteran

nick in* england

Posted
Posted

The link worked... But I think this is a pretty old take on the Bills line.

 

Our guys haven't REALLY impressed me yet though - but the worry about Gandy seems to have subsided some. They clearly have the tools - the question is can they complete the job... I'm not sure I have an answer.

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nick in* england Veteran

nick in* england

Posted
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I think the line will surprise us this year.  They had better, becuase we can't risk WM.

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We don't need surprises - we need consistency, and positive consistency too.

 

I hope they come good - I have a good feeling - but they are the key to the season IMO.

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Chilly All Pro

Chilly

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Posted
Someone's gotta jump on this lay-up joke:

"Bills are only 24th?  That's not right.  I think our line is much more offensive than  that."

BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!  GET OFF THE STAGE!!!!!!!!!

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How do I feel about the execution of our offensive line?

 

I'm in favor of it.

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Fake-Fat Sunny Veteran

Fake-Fat Sunny

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Well, you lose your best O-lineman in Jennings and replace him with Gandy,

what do you expect.

 

I am actually a little surprised they aren't ranked lower.

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Jennings, our best OL player? I don't think so. I'd put him at about Teague level in the middle of the OL pack for us (Teague completely missed 4 games while JJ only completely missed 2 and signficant parts of 2 others due to a concussion and shoulder problem. Teague had a more complex job at C than JJ at LT though they both shouldered similar amounts of responsibility with Teague having many jobs and JJ guarding Bledsoe's blindside).

 

I'd rank Villarial as a better player than JJ (CV had less responsibility but I think gets a lot of credit for MW's improvement. I also would rank MW as finally becoming a better player than JJ as his injury record was better and he showed more mobility in the end.

 

I think you have to rank LG as our weakest link and JJ was much better than Smith, but given Tucker giving a stand-up performance in relief of Teague there is even a credible argument that Tucker was more productive than JJ last year, though LT is such an important job one has to give the nod to JJ over him as a player (despite the fact Abrahams did beat JJ like a drum in one game.

 

All in all I think it really pushes reality to call JJ our best OL player last year.

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San-O Veteran

San-O

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Posted
Jennings, our best OL player? I don't think so.  I'd put him at about Teague level in the middle of the OL pack for us (Teague completely missed 4 games while JJ only completely missed 2 and signficant parts of 2 others due to a concussion and shoulder problem.  Teague had a more complex job at C than JJ at LT though they both shouldered similar amounts of responsibility with Teague having many jobs and JJ guarding Bledsoe's blindside).

 

I'd rank Villarial as a better player than JJ (CV had less responsibility but I think gets a lot of credit for MW's improvement. I also would rank MW as finally becoming a better player than JJ as his injury record was better and he showed more mobility in the end.

 

I think you have to rank LG as our weakest link and JJ was much better than Smith, but given Tucker giving a stand-up performance in relief of Teague there is even a credible argument that Tucker was more productive than JJ last year, though LT is such an important job one has to give the nod to JJ over him as a player (despite the fact Abrahams did beat JJ like a drum in one game.

 

All in all I think it really pushes reality to call JJ our best OL player last year.

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Ok. So, JJ was tied for worst O-lineman last year, on a sub-par/average O-line.

 

Guess this line should be ranked in the top 10 with Jennings gone.

 

According to you, he was a weak link.

 

:doh:

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Fake-Fat Sunny Veteran

Fake-Fat Sunny

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Ok.  So, JJ was tied for worst O-lineman last year, on a sub-par/average O-line.

 

Guess this line should be ranked in the top 10 with Jennings gone.

 

According to you, he was a weak link.

 

:doh:

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Cliff notes begin:

 

The Billls should have better performance from an improved MW (after last year's near debacle and a young player entering his prime) and an upgrade over Smith at LG. Teague we hope will be able to do a whole season. Villarial we hope will be steady. The move from Jj tp Gandy will likely be a drop-off but given JJ did not start or left early in 4 games and Gandy has impressed so far the drop-off should not be huge.

 

Add to that more mobility from Losman versus Bledsoe and JMac getting his first full year without the penalty of Vinky and Ruel I have little doubt that the OL will be much better even though JJ is gone and may well be in the top 10 if TC/MM calls a good game with WM.

 

Cliff notes end

 

Like it says in the post you inaccurately responded tto, Jj was neither the worst OL player in the NFL or even on the Bills last year. However, I think he clearly did not perform as well as Vilarial (who did have a less sensitive position with more help around him at RG), nor did he perform as well as MW (who did get off to a horrendous start in mini-camps but got his act together such that he was awarded a gameball at one point though again he had outside help from the TE JJ didn't).

 

Of his four OL mates, JJ missed all or part of 4 games (CV missd 1 and MW 1 or 2) which puts him at about the same level as Teague who I think had a more difficult job than JJ as he not only blocked for passing with help but had to make the linecalls. He was clearly better than Smith and also a bit better than Tucker though i think one must give Tucker props for his flexibility.

 

The one thing I think that speaks to JJ being good is the market. However, i think that almost all Bills fans judge the market as having made a big mistake in the payment he got from SF.

 

Will the Bills OL be better iin 05 than in 04?

 

I dunno, its part of the reason they play the game.

 

However, even with the uncertainties in the Bills OL this year the answer is probably yes:

 

RT- Likely upgrade as MW is moving into his peak years as a player and will not be suffering from the penalty of last off-season where he was headed toward being a bust as him reacting unprofessionally to the death of the grandma that raised him caused his weight to balloon. All reports are of him being downright buff for a big boy this year and the article is correct in judging this a make or break year for him.

 

RG- Villarial has been solid though unspectacular as a player though after the Pacillo/Sullivan years this was a huge upgrade over their play. If CV turns in another year like last year that would be great though the injury he suffered late last season does make me hope that was not a sign of wear and tear.

 

C- Clearly the most improved of the Bills OL players as he simply had problems putting it all together doing the line calls AND delivering the snap (particularly shotguns) AND blocking behemoth DTs at the same time. However, his game has improved by most observations. He seemed to recover nicely from the injury which cost him 4 games last year but injuries remain a big issue.

 

LG- The Bills got lucky (or JMac was better even than advertised) as Pacillo proved incapable of making the switch and we somehow found a Ravens PS guy capable of credibly starting for our team. Smith was marginally credible, but he was oddly more effective as a pass blocker than as a road grater for the run (usally the run blocking is easier to master than the pass blocking) and he was horrible in the red zone and the endzone attack was better with Adams and Bannan than with Smith.

 

In the end, Tuckers did a stand-out job filling in for Teague as we began our streak and he became a still judged to be inadequate but better LG than Smith.

 

The move to Anderson should be an upgrade (if only because the LG performance was adeqaute at best with Tucker) but so far this pre-season Anderson has been called for too many penalties. On the upside the main rap about him was that though he was a big boy he had not shown good movement in space or the ability to be a pullling guard. However, his movement has looked pretty good so far, however he needs to not get flagged so much or this no upgrade.

 

LT- This has been the big area of uncertainty as we had a failed player for the Bears slotted to fill in for JJ. Ironically, the general review of Gandy has been that he hasn;t looked bad at all at LT. It remains to be seen how he does against tiop quality LDEs in real games, but so far so good and there really is no drop-off yet from JJ (particularly if you factor him being knocked down by injury in a quarter of games and performance hiccups like the one against Abrahams last year.

 

Beyond the starting 5 performance I think you can reasonably add a big plus in that Losman has far more mobility and escapability than Bledsoe and JMac having a second year is such a huge upgade over Vinky and Ruel that this should have a tangible effect.

 

The other real life fact that one needs to take into account when compafing the '04 Bills OL performance to the prospects for '05 is that last year is most intelligently judged as two seasons. it was simply a different world when they operated with Henry versus how they operated with McGahee.

 

The theory that some have that this is due to WM being a stud at blitz pick-up while TH wasa stiff at this part of his game simply makes no sense to me.Bltiz pick-up is an after the fact reactive issue and even if it was better this does not explain the better run production.

 

The real explanations it seems to be are:

 

1. WM is simply a better runner than Henry. Saying WM is good does not mean Henry is bad, it simply means WM is good. Particularly given his greater speed and his powerful stiff arm which forced Ds to cheat to the outside, his running ability simply stopped Ds from commiting totally to the blitz.

 

2. TC/MM really established their offense and their tendencies. The flea flickers they ran where the runner pitched back to Bledsoe and their even having no fear of running Bledsoe with the delayed draw simply stopped blitzers frome selling out to blitz. They did not establish this offense and tendency until mid-season.

 

i expect this to be there from the start this year and an 05 Bills OL should perform more like the second half of the season than the first half.

 

The bottom line is that answering your question of whether this OL wlll be much better without JJ. I think the answer is almost certainly yes.

 

I think it would also have been good with JJ as the impovements should come from better play by the RT and LG, a full season from the C, a steady state at RG and a dro[p-off but not a severe one at LT.

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San-O Veteran

San-O

Posted
Posted
Cliff notes begin:

 

The bottom line is that answering your question of whether this OL wlll be much better without JJ.  I think the answer is almost certainly yes.

 

I think it would also have been good with JJ as the  impovements should come from better play by the RT and LG, a full season from the C, a steady state at RG and a dro[p-off but not a severe one at LT.

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And you are the same as every other guy here, who has believed this for the last ten years.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the lineup that starts the season, is not the same one the

ends the season. Not due to injury either.

 

Oh, almost forgot this ridiculous point: If MW is so damn good, and BETTER than

Jonas Jennings, why isn't HE playing LT now.

 

Answer: He can't. He's not good enough. :doh:

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