Peter Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Based on what? 29804[/snapback] Are you suggesting that the plane would not have gone down if a plane load of passengers armed with assault weapons began shooting bullet holes in the fuselage? By the way, you never answered my question. Are you in favor of ANY kind of gun control? If so, what would it be? Given that you are the Second Amendment guy on this board, I am genuinely interested to read your views on the subject.
DC Tom Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Circular reasoning. You made my point. 29785[/snapback] What point? When did you have a !@#$ing point? How is "If planes that Rosen without guns aboard have guns aboard instead, they will Rosen" a point? And I'm using circular logic? Yeah...go have another drink...
swede316 Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 If you believe that the law was ineffective and full of loopholes, then why not call for it to be amended and corrected, instead of celebrating throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I'll side with the majority of police officers over the NRA and continue to support a ban on such weapons. Just another reason to vote out the current administration and Congress. 29626[/snapback] Read my replies to this thread....Facts Suck! http://205.134.161.85/forums/index.php?showtopic=2510
swede316 Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Again if you read the DOJ report...Less than 1% are used in actual crimes commited and guns overall accounted for only 29% of all violent crime. With or with out guns some people will still find a way to be criminals. What's next ban knives? http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/guic.pdf
Peter Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 What point? When did you have a !@#$ing point? How is "If planes that Rosen without guns aboard have guns aboard instead, they will Rosen" a point? And I'm using circular logic? Yeah...go have another drink... 29874[/snapback] You are funny. I thought that the whole POINT was for the plane NOT to go down under ANY circumstances. You would just prefer that the passengers shoot it down from inside. If you guys seriously believe that we should allow passengers to carry assault weapons on planes, you guys are just too far gone.
Alaska Darin Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 Holy stevestojan, Mickey, something we finally agree on. Since I'm a big enough man to cross the aisle on this issue, why don't you reciprocate by voting for Bush? The idea that the 2nd Amendment protects people's rights to have assault rifles sounds good on paper. But the defensive mechanism provided in that Amendmant is basically outdated. A bunch of Americans with assault rifles would fair poorly against our modern military should a coup occur. 29664[/snapback] I disagree. The insurgents in Iraq are having success and they ain't anywhere near as competent as we are. There are over 200,000,000 privately held weapons in this country. There is no way a volunteer force of under 2,000,000 has a chance in hell, especially when one considers that far less than half that number are combat troops and at least a decent percentage of them would quite probably join the resistance. I harken back to the fact that Germany didn't invade Switzerland despite the Swiss not having a standing army. The Germans were more than a little nervous about the marksmen they would be facing. There was a quote attributed to a Swiss citizen when he was asked what they would do to stop an invasion facing an enemy that outnumbered them 2-to-1. His answer? "Shoot twice."
swede316 Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 If you guys seriously believe that we should allow passengers to carry assault weapons on planes, you guys are just too far gone. Did you miss the sarcasm? He was being sarcastic.
Peter Posted September 13, 2004 Posted September 13, 2004 Did you miss the sarcasm? He was being sarcastic. 29900[/snapback] I really hope so.
Alaska Darin Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 Are you suggesting that the plane would not have gone down if a plane load of passengers armed with assault weapons began shooting bullet holes in the fuselage? By the way, you never answered my question. Are you in favor of ANY kind of gun control? If so, what would it be? Given that you are the Second Amendment guy on this board, I am genuinely interested to read your views on the subject. 29823[/snapback] I did answer the question. "Not much" is the answer. I'd say keeping the mentally deranged out of the equation is a pretty good idea. Everything else is up for discussion. I'd much rather err on the side of liberty than intervention. I don't know many people who'd let others know that they were carrying in such an overt manner on an airplane. I guarantee you if I were on that plane armed with nothing more than my standard carry weapon, that'd have been a very short skirmish.
Alaska Darin Posted September 13, 2004 Author Posted September 13, 2004 There have been attempts by the Democrats to tighten the loopholes and extend the ban, but unfortunately the Republicans block such legislation from even coming up for a vote. Bush says he would sign a renewal of the existing ban if Congress sent it to him, but won't use the bully pulpit, like Kerry did today, to call for Congress to do so. Bush shows no leadership on the issue. Either say you're for it and push Congress to extend it, or say you're against it and take the political hit from the soccer moms. 29658[/snapback] Those who choose freedom over security deserve neither. The police chiefs didn't tell you that there are over 1700 citizens for every police officer in this country. I'd venture to guess that number is probably low, considering the number of actual desk jockeys there are. They also didn't tell you that they aren't required by law to protect you. You can't sue your local PD if you or one of your family members is hurt/killed because of their negligence. Kerry used his bully pulpit to play to the fears of the typically uniformed lemming. Congrats on proving that yet again. It was piss poor leftislation that solved nothing, but don't let that get in the way. Any other amendments in the Constitution you don't like? How about the First?
MichFan Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 The insurgents in Iraq are having success and they ain't anywhere near as competent as we are. You're not suggesting we legalize RPGs and mortars as well, are you? Those are the weapons they are having the most success with, not assault rifles. There are over 200,000,000 privately held weapons in this country. There is no way a volunteer force of under 2,000,000 has a chance in hell, especially when one considers that far less than half that number are combat troops and at least a decent percentage of them would quite probably join the resistance. The U.S. military has nuclear weapons at their disposal... I have absolutely no problem with people owning guns for purposes such as sports, recreation, or self-defense. I just don't understand the need for people to have assault rifles. Then again, I don't understand why people need to have Pit Bulls or Rottweilers in neighborhoods populated by little kids. Our neighbor just got a Rott mix that likes coming around when the kids are out. The puppy is bigger than most dogs and it is supposed to get 150-200 pounds when fully grown. I guess it's the feeling of imminent danger with catastrophic consequences that bugs me. Not sure these are the types of freedoms we should be so freely granting.
Alaska Darin Posted September 14, 2004 Author Posted September 14, 2004 You're not suggesting we legalize RPGs and mortars as well, are you? Those are the weapons they are having the most success with, not assault rifles.The U.S. military has nuclear weapons at their disposal... I have absolutely no problem with people owning guns for purposes such as sports, recreation, or self-defense. I just don't understand the need for people to have assault rifles. Then again, I don't understand why people need to have Pit Bulls or Rottweilers in neighborhoods populated by little kids. Our neighbor just got a Rott mix that likes coming around when the kids are out. The puppy is bigger than most dogs and it is supposed to get 150-200 pounds when fully grown. I guess it's the feeling of imminent danger with catastrophic consequences that bugs me. Not sure these are the types of freedoms we should be so freely granting. 30098[/snapback] Care to tell me the difference between an AK47 and a Winchester .308 rifle? How about an AR-15 and a garden variety .22? Packaging. Nothing more, nothing less. One looks scary. How many drive by "bayonetings" were there over the last 10 years? Every ONE of those guns is still available, as are the magazines that were outlawed, yet they are almost never used in crimes. Facts suck. The assault weapons ban may very well have been the first time in history something was outlawed because it contained a safety feature (barrel shroud). Unreal. I have Dobermans. Wonderful animals. The cadillac of dogs. Smarter than almost anything out there, more athletic than all but a few breeds, and intimidating as hell to the ignorant masses. People actually cross the street when we walk them. They are better around the kids (especially babies) than my idiot neighbor's puntable, which has actually bitten the neighbor's kid twice. The worst mauling in Alaska happened over the weekend by a BLACK LAB. In my experience, it has little to do with the dog and everything to do with the owner. You can have my dogs when you can take my guns. If you think your average combat operator can't make incendiary devices, I got news for you. I can screw up your world with nothing more than soap flakes and gasoline. Where there's a will, there's a way. I know you didn't just advocate the US Military nuking citizens inside our border.
_BiB_ Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 You're not suggesting we legalize RPGs and mortars as well, are you? Those are the weapons they are having the most success with, not assault rifles.The U.S. military has nuclear weapons at their disposal... I have absolutely no problem with people owning guns for purposes such as sports, recreation, or self-defense. I just don't understand the need for people to have assault rifles. Then again, I don't understand why people need to have Pit Bulls or Rottweilers in neighborhoods populated by little kids. Our neighbor just got a Rott mix that likes coming around when the kids are out. The puppy is bigger than most dogs and it is supposed to get 150-200 pounds when fully grown. I guess it's the feeling of imminent danger with catastrophic consequences that bugs me. Not sure these are the types of freedoms we should be so freely granting. 30098[/snapback] You'd be absolutely amazed what I can do with a 55 gallon drum of gasoline.
Alaska Darin Posted September 14, 2004 Author Posted September 14, 2004 You'd be absolutely amazed what I can do with a 55 gallon drum of gasoline. 30140[/snapback] That's it! No buying gasoline in quantities that blow up!
DC Tom Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 You'd be absolutely amazed what I can do with a 55 gallon drum of gasoline. 30140[/snapback] Which would be much harder to get if we'd ban cars... (The whole gun-control discussion just isn't the same without Grandpa Simpson's surreality...)
KD in CA Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 I don't know many people who'd let others know that they were carrying in such an overt manner on an airplane. I guarantee you if I were on that plane armed with nothing more than my standard carry weapon, that'd have been a very short skirmish. 29924[/snapback] Yeah, but how many holes would you have put in the fuselage while killing the bad guys? I'm no aerospace engineer, but I'd presume you'd need a whole bunch of bullet holes before a 767 come tumbling out of the sky.
Alaska Darin Posted September 14, 2004 Author Posted September 14, 2004 Yeah, but how many holes would you have put in the fuselage while killing the bad guys? I'm no aerospace engineer, but I'd presume you'd need a whole bunch of bullet holes before a 767 come tumbling out of the sky. 30259[/snapback] Alot. I'd be carrying the right ammo for the situation, but the air handlers on jets are more than enough to compensate for holes that size. Hence the reason there are now armed folks on airplanes.
swede316 Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 Actually I did see an episode of mythbusters where they shot a bullet thru a pressurized airliner. nothing happened..no rapid decompression. Now..I'm not going to go as far as AD on this one ..... I wouldn't want to be on a plane with people shooting...too small a space...even if I were using Safety Slugs.
Alaska Darin Posted September 14, 2004 Author Posted September 14, 2004 Actually I did see an episode of mythbusters where they shot a bullet thru a pressurized airliner. nothing happened..no rapid decompression. Now..I'm not going to go as far as AD on this one ..... I wouldn't want to be on a plane with people shooting...too small a space...even if I were using Safety Slugs. 30286[/snapback] I didn't say I wanted to be on a plane with OTHER people shooting...
PastaJoe Posted September 14, 2004 Posted September 14, 2004 It's a strange alliance between the people who say they need guns in case the government tries to restrict our rights, and the politicians who are most likely to restrict our rights. It's the conservatives in government who want to restrict rights and have more government oversight of our lives, whether it be the current Patriot Act, restricting free speech on the tv and radio, restricting abortion rights, or banning marriage to some. I'll say again that I think there is a reasonable compromise that can be made. People should be able to own hunting rifles, shotguns, and small clip pistols, but there is no need for offensive assault weapons. I would leave it to the weapon experts from both sides of the debate to define what should be catagorized as an assault weapon whose primary purpose is to inflict casualties. The extremists from both sides should not be allowed to drive the legislation.
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