Rubes Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 This is my real beef from this game. I'm not saying it's why we lost or anything, but I've been sick of Clements' show-boating for a couple of years now. He's an "everybody look at me" kind of player, and it's why he went for the pick on that long pass instead of doing the smart thing, the right thing, and just batting it away. The man always seems to be looking for personal glory and I'm sure it's what motivated him to do the stupid thing. Okay, that's my only negative post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I think he tries to fire the crowd up too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 As a Buckeye and Bills fan, it pains me to agree...but you are right. He has been burned repeatedly for the last 2 years and is not worth the big $$. You have to play big during crunch time and he continues to Fug up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 As a Buckeye and Bills fan, it pains me to agree...but you are right. He has been burned repeatedly for the last 2 years and is not worth the big $$. You have to play big during crunch time and he continues to Fug up. 29086[/snapback] Agreed. We should've kept Winfield over Clements (I know, Clements' contract isn't up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 Agreed. We should've kept Winfield over Clements (I know, Clements' contract isn't up). 29100[/snapback] Yeah, I was one of the big Winfield fans. I would have preferred Winfield over Clements. But I guess it comes down to, which would you prefer: solid but unspectacular play, or occasional turnovers and mental breakdowns? But I don't want to start the whole Winfield vs. Clements thing again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 This is a team which has been in desperate need of difference-makers for awhile. Clements has successfully been ONE of those people from time to time, but in my view the lack of having enough difference-makers so he immaturely tries to play that role all the time, and the lack of a convergence between difference-makers and leadership has made for his showboating. One difference between the Bills of the early 90s and this crew is that the old-guard had multiple difference-makers and multiple leaders. Individual players had the capability to step up from time to time as first it was Thurman, then Bruce, then Kelly, then Talley, etcetera etcetera stepping up and sharing the load. We simply do not have that. We would not be so worried about Clements show-boating if Reese, Wire or Spikes had bloacked that final pass. We would not be so worried about Clements if Henry or WM had bulldozed the ball in to give us a lead. We would not be so worried about Clements if Villaril had not been caught for holding. Clements got beat )and beat bad) by a better play by Smith yesterday. However, he also got an INT which set up Moulds TD. He is going to be a mixed bag just as past Bills CBs were (Nate Odomes for example). Focusing on him as the problem is fine because he is far from perfect, but failing to focus first on the real problem that there simply are not enough players on the Bills being difference makers is the real issue and the path to getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 This is a team which has been in desperate need of difference-makers for awhile. Clements has successfully been ONE of those people from time to time, but in my view the lack of having enough difference-makers so he immaturely tries to play that role all the time, and the lack of a convergence between difference-makers and leadership has made for his showboating. One difference between the Bills of the early 90s and this crew is that the old-guard had multiple difference-makers and multiple leaders. Individual players had the capability to step up from time to time as first it was Thurman, then Bruce, then Kelly, then Talley, etcetera etcetera stepping up and sharing the load. We simply do not have that. We would not be so worried about Clements show-boating if Reese, Wire or Spikes had bloacked that final pass. We would not be so worried about Clements if Henry or WM had bulldozed the ball in to give us a lead. We would not be so worried about Clements if Villaril had not been caught for holding. Clements got beat )and beat bad) by a better play by Smith yesterday. However, he also got an INT which set up Moulds TD. He is going to be a mixed bag just as past Bills CBs were (Nate Odomes for example). Focusing on him as the problem is fine because he is far from perfect, but failing to focus first on the real problem that there simply are not enough players on the Bills being difference makers is the real issue and the path to getting better. 29132[/snapback] I really have to disagree with that. Clements didnt get beat by a better play by a good player, Clements just went for an interception when his SOLE RESPONSIBILITY was to knock the ball down. That is IT. Even if he made an incredible diving one handed stab THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BAD PLAY. It was 44 yards down the field. He could have made a great catch and we'd still lose 30 yards. That play was made because he is a hot dog. And it flat lost the game. There isn't even an argument about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risin Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 the thing that really burns my ass on that play, it was 4th freaking down. Even if he gets the pick, we have worse field position. You are taught in Pop Warner, on 4th down, just knock the damn ball down. This was part selfishness, part stupidity all rolled into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I stated this prior to F/A starting in the spring....I would have preferred keeping AW if the cost was reasonable(as it turned out it wasn't. Maybe he should have been signed earlier??) and letting NC go after 2005. I don't care if NC gets more INT's, AW will always be a better overall CB in my mind. Yesterday did not change my mind one bit. ...and I still think Fletcher is an idiot for the way he was celebrating after making a tackle on a 2ND DOWN play at a key point in the 4th quarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 the thing that really burns my ass on that play, it was 4th freaking down. Even if he gets the pick, we have worse field position. You are taught in Pop Warner, on 4th down, just knock the damn ball down. This was part selfishness, part stupidity all rolled into one. 29161[/snapback] Bingo. Nate has always impressed me with his athleticism. He has pissed me off more often than not with his lack of sense and game awareness. Hard to believe someone who has made it that far can be so situationally unaware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 the thing that really burns my ass on that play, it was 4th freaking down. Even if he gets the pick, we have worse field position. You are taught in Pop Warner, on 4th down, just knock the damn ball down. This was part selfishness, part stupidity all rolled into one. 29161[/snapback] Yes, but I'm sure in Nate's mind was the fact that, if he gets the pick, then he gets better stats, better recognition, better chance of being on ESPN, and screw field position...he gets the chance to run it back for a TD! Burns me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Bingo. Nate has always impressed me with his athleticism. He has pissed me off more often than not with his lack of sense and game awareness. Hard to believe someone who has made it that far can be so situationally unaware. 29181[/snapback] Agreed....when I used to play 2-hand touch in college, my friends and I were always aware of the fact that is was 4th down and tried to knock the ball down....that's something you do even if it's the 2nd Qtr. I don't understand how an NFL player can be that dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Bingo. Nate has always impressed me with his athleticism. He has pissed me off more often than not with his lack of sense and game awareness. Hard to believe someone who has made it that far can be so situationally unaware. 29181[/snapback] You are absolutely right. I couldn't believe he didn't swat it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest_Coach_Tuesday Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Same thing happened in the Texans game last year, remember? D held the Texans all game, one long pass to Andre Johnson in the 4th Quarter, Clemens goes for the pick, GAME OVER. I'll tell you something, folks - it's not about show-boating, or about me-firstness - I think it's even worse than that: INCENTIVES. Everyone in the entire stadium knew it was fourth-and-forever. You don't forget that kind of thing. Clemens saw an opportunity to get a pick, maybe a TD, and pad his stats and his contract. It infuriates me. I'M SICK OF IT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I really have to disagree with that. Clements didnt get beat by a better play by a good player, Clements just went for an interception when his SOLE RESPONSIBILITY was to knock the ball down. That is IT. Even if he made an incredible diving one handed stab THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BAD PLAY. It was 44 yards down the field. He could have made a great catch and we'd still lose 30 yards. That play was made because he is a hot dog. And it flat lost the game. There isn't even an argument about that. 29149[/snapback] That is an excellent point. If fact, should not the coaches or someone brought that up. DON'T catch the ball, knock it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I really have to disagree with that. Clements didnt get beat by a better play by a good player, Clements just went for an interception when his SOLE RESPONSIBILITY was to knock the ball down. That is IT. Even if he made an incredible diving one handed stab THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A BAD PLAY. It was 44 yards down the field. He could have made a great catch and we'd still lose 30 yards. That play was made because he is a hot dog. And it flat lost the game. There isn't even an argument about that. 29149[/snapback] Agreed...it's 4th freaking Down Nate, and admitting you should have just knocked the ball down in your Post Game comments just proves your not thinking out there when it counts. I know this is kind of a long shot, but you would think after years of watching Berman and TJ screaming "KNOCK THE BALL DOWN!!" on ESPN Primetime (and you know the players watch), guys like Nate would know they'll get props for making smart Football Plays, as well as INT's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Same thing happened in the Texans game last year, remember? D held the Texans all game, one long pass to Andre Johnson in the 4th Quarter, Clemens goes for the pick, GAME OVER. I'll tell you something, folks - it's not about show-boating, or about me-firstness - I think it's even worse than that: INCENTIVES. Everyone in the entire stadium knew it was fourth-and-forever. You don't forget that kind of thing. Clemens saw an opportunity to get a pick, maybe a TD, and pad his stats and his contract. It infuriates me. I'M SICK OF IT. 29326[/snapback] Let's not forget if Clements doesn't go after the ball earlier in the game and get the pick we most likley not had the lead at the point in the game either. oYu can't have it two ways, everyone I am sure applauds Nate for his INT in the first half that lead to the Moulds TD but will then dump on him for doing the same thing later in the game. Now there's no telling for sure what Winfield would have done if he were in that situation but I have a feeling that Winfield would have been behind Smith and then just try to wrap him up with a tackle. I know people will point to Winfield's two fumble recoveries yesterday but look at the play by play. The Vikings were up by 11 and 18 in the 4th Quarter which definately helps Winfield's situation where Clements was in a close game where any mistake will be greatly magnified (as seen by this posts and others). I stand by that Clements is far and away a better CB then Winfield because he is a playmaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Let's not forget if Clements doesn't go after the ball earlier in the game and get the pick we most likley not had the lead at the point in the game either. oYu can't have it two ways, everyone I am sure applauds Nate for his INT in the first half that lead to the Moulds TD but will then dump on him for doing the same thing later in the game. Now there's no telling for sure what Winfield would have done if he were in that situation but I have a feeling that Winfield would have been behind Smith and then just try to wrap him up with a tackle. I know people will point to Winfield's two fumble recoveries yesterday but look at the play by play. The Vikings were up by 11 and 18 in the 4th Quarter which definately helps Winfield's situation where Clements was in a close game where any mistake will be greatly magnified (as seen by this posts and others). I stand by that Clements is far and away a better CB then Winfield because he is a playmaker. 29365[/snapback] You're wrong. Different situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 Let's not forget if Clements doesn't go after the ball earlier in the game and get the pick we most likley not had the lead at the point in the game either. oYu can't have it two ways, everyone I am sure applauds Nate for his INT in the first half that lead to the Moulds TD but will then dump on him for doing the same thing later in the game. 29365[/snapback] Oh dude, those are such terribly different situations that it doesn't even compare. Who here is saying that Nate should swat the ball away at every opportunity? Nobody. We all want him to make the picks. But more than that, we want him to make the smart play. Intercepting the ball earlier in the game is the smart play. Swatting the ball away on 4th down with the game on the line is the smart play. This guy just doesn't use that pea-brain of his when it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyT Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 So, what part are you sick of...the interception or the way he was on Smith like glue on the long pass? Come to think of it I don't remember him getting beat on any other passes. Maybe I wasn't watching close enough? We need to get over it. Clements HAD GOOD COVERAGE on Smith. 99% of the coaches would love to have a corner that could stick that close to an opposition's #1 Pro Bowl receiver. He just didn't get his head around in time to react. Smith is a very good player. He made a great catch. Isn't anyone able to give him some credit? If it was Moulds or Evans making the same play then everyone would be singing their praises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts