pkwwjd Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 as far as his development ... how many sacks has he given up? how many boneheaded plays? how many INTs? I believe the answer to all three (I could be wrong) is none. And he's now played more than one full game. I'll take it.
34-78-83 Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 It isn't really that simple. If you post something to the effect to "Bledsoe doesn't suck," people will go off at times, right? Either way, this is still the best site on the web, and Bills fans are the best fans of any team in any sport!!!!!!! 415236[/snapback] I agree with that my friend. It's just that sometimes it seems more PC to be negative if you want to be considered a "true fan" and not a homer. It's all about being balanced to me but I suppose it takes all kinds.
VABills Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 as far as his development ... how many sacks has he given up? how many boneheaded plays? how many INTs? I believe the answer to all three (I could be wrong) is none. And he's now played more than one full game. I'll take it. 415240[/snapback] Umm... Sam came out on NFL Network saying he is making lots of boneheaded plays, running too soon, locking onto players, holding the ball too long etc... The non-safety. And he was sacked twice against Indy. WHile I don't fault him for these, and he will make some plays, he will also make mistakes. But if you're gonna argue, at least use facts.
IDBillzFan Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 So someone isn't allowed to have an honest opinion here. 415112[/snapback] I'd agree with you if "honest" were the only way to describe this opinion. But other adjectives crop up long before you get to "honest."
VABills Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 I'd agree with you if "honest" were the only way to describe this opinion. But other adjectives crop up long before you get to "honest." 415250[/snapback] You know I haven't really given an opinion of JP since last week, yet people are jumping in my sh-- about it. All I have done since is ask why others get jumped on when they question our QB choice. They have a right to their opinion. Just as everyone who think JP is HOF bound is entitled to theirs.
eball Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 And everything you post has an agenda as well. "Either you love JP or you are not a Bills fan." 415227[/snapback] then you quite obviously have not read a thing i've posted. taking a cautiously optimistic side of things, while maintaining a sense of realism, is called "being a fan." why don't you try it some time, instead of being a post-whore who really adds nothing to an intelligent discussion among bills' fans?
VABills Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 then you quite obviously have not read a thing i've posted. taking a cautiously optimistic side of things, while maintaining a sense of realism, is called "being a fan." why don't you try it some time, instead of being a post-whore who really adds nothing to an intelligent discussion among bills' fans? 415256[/snapback] Because if everyone sat around with rose colored glasses singing Kumbi - by !@#$ing - yah, then what need would there be for the board. Poster 1 - JP is great Poster 2 - I agree Poster 3 - Yeah we haven't made the playoffs in 6 years, but TD, MM are doing a greate job. Oh yeah and JP is great. Poster 4 - I agree with everybody else, we should change a thing with this team, even though we never make the playoffs Then we have others Poster 5 - We have issues as a team, here is what I see. a.b.c Poster 1 - You suck poster 5 and are not a Bills fan Poster 2 - At least he isn't Drew, but poster 5 you're an idiot Poster 3- I agree with poster 1 and 2 Poster 4 - Yeah what they said, because I am unable to ahave an original thought nor comprehend anything beyond what One Bills Drive is telling me.
pkwwjd Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Umm... Sam came out on NFL Network saying he is making lots of boneheaded plays, running too soon, locking onto players, holding the ball too long etc... The non-safety. And he was sacked twice against Indy. WHile I don't fault him for these, and he will make some plays, he will also make mistakes. But if you're gonna argue, at least use facts. 415248[/snapback] Sorry, forgot about the sacks at Indy -- like I say in many of my posts "I could be wrong", doesn't seem to come out of your keyboard much. As far as boneheaded plays, running too early, locking on don't cut it in my book (maybe that's just my opinion) -- those are things that every QB is prone to do at times, even veterans. Forcing the ball into triple coverage, throwing the ball away on 4th down ... mental errors are what I consider boneheaded plays. I seem to recall (again, I could be wrong) that even the Indy announcers were commenting on how the only mistakes that JP made were physical, correctable mistakes, not the common rookie mental errors. That is what I was referring to.
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 I want what's best for the Bills period. So there would never be an "I told you so" I believe Losman should 'play within himself' until his confidence in his o-line grows. However he can't play 'street football' and expect to stay healthy. One of these times he takes off and doesn't slide he's going to get ear holed and carried off of the field on a stretcher. 415163[/snapback] I think this a good point because a key to the Bills winning (the first thing) and JPs individual development as a QB (the second thing in my mind) is him for the most part playing within himself. He actually will need to "let it hang-out" a little and "push the outside of the envelop" (to use two cliches which actually describe the situation) a little in order to develop. However, I think the key to production from this 1st full year QB is to plat within himself and do what he can rather than to take risks and make mistakes. True he would learn from these mistakes and with luck become a better QB, but the future is now, and this team can make the playoffs with a QB whopulls off the Trent Dilfer trick of simply making few mistakes. This team showed last year that it can come within a hair of making the playoffs with a Bledsoe like inadequate performance at QB. I think this year: 1. JP can perform at a 2004 Bledsoe level (and I suspect he will); 2. Of far greater import 10 of 11 starters back on D and Phat Pat was good but saw less than 2/3 of the D snaps and his replacements seem good enough, 3. The ST looks deeper so far (a plethora of PR guys, good competition and scheme on coverage) and the placekicking game can improve and may do that judging by one game; 4. The O improved a little from last year (if injuries don't drag us down much more), 5. Most players on this fairly young team ready to step it up a notch (WM and Kelsay in particular), 6. There are a few older players but between roles being switched so they can still perform (Vincent to S utlizes his vet brain while demanding less speed than CB and their personal commitment to stay in shape (Adams) as long as sudden occurence of injury (watch Milloy) doesn't hit they look good. 7. MM really improved translating team management into production in the second half of his rookie season and seems poised to be an even better HC his second year. At any rate the prospects look good to me and this will impact how JP performs in what will be a year he learns how to be a pro and should impact how he is managed. The issue IMHO opinion is that I think JP knows he should play within himself and MM/TC are managing him to play within himself. The problem is that his first time starter doesn't know what "himself" is yet as a pro performer. He and the braintrust have a pretty good idea because they know well the skills he brings and thankfully we got a full year for book study and teaching him the pro game (which had to happen because like it or not he did not know the pro game in terms of the theory last year). However, in addition to the essential book study, there really is no replacement for playing the game. JP will learn this year what he can and can't do on the field. It makes sense that right now people are seeing one level of performance from him and then seemingly the next quarter another level of performance (fortunately the less than successful performances are not so bad that they are marked with horrendous errors, for example he has not had a performance like his debacle in NE last year yet). This makes sense because we have not yet had a game (in pre-season now or his mop-ups last year) where he had to throw the ball deep and the D knew he was coming yet. I am quite content to see him learn what is too much, what is too little, and what it just right in pre-season and even in regular season as long as the D and ST play well enough that he can win by not trying to do too much. I am also happy to see him get limited or 1 shot at learning how to come from behind and win. Hpwever, if he has to do this too often and fails to do this, then I feel his development is important but if we have a shot at competing for the playoffs and he demonstrates he is not their yet in terms of production, part of his development will be learning to deal with his butt being benched and a previously failed vet getting a shot. If Steve Young and Farve can survive the indignity of failing so badly they got traded and still grow up to become stars, JP will simply have to suck it up and do this too (and pull off the bigger trick of not needing a change of town to do this improvement). I think the bottomline is: 1. Improve slowly but still win and make the playoffs like RoboQB in Pitts last year. 2. Bench him and go with Holcomb if the reserve gives us a better chance to win and winning right now is critical to us making the playoffs. Right now I hope and assume that our D and ST will be good enough and the MM/TC management of the O will be measured such that all we have is success and we go 16-0 with JP as QB. I know this is a fantasy so I will also accept it grudgingly if mistakes are made and we only produce a 14-2 record behind JP. Its only if we are headed toward 9-7 again and our losses are related to JP mistakes (or a change in leadership would improve things even if it isn't his fault) that I would bench him as part of his development because winning is the overwhelming key.
VABills Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Sorry, forgot about the sacks at Indy -- like I say in many of my posts "I could be wrong", doesn't seem to come out of your keyboard much. As far as boneheaded plays, running too early, locking on don't cut it in my book (maybe that's just my opinion) -- those are things that every QB is prone to do at times, even veterans. Forcing the ball into triple coverage, throwing the ball away on 4th down ... mental errors are what I consider boneheaded plays. I seem to recall (again, I could be wrong) that even the Indy announcers were commenting on how the only mistakes that JP made were physical, correctable mistakes, not the common rookie mental errors. That is what I was referring to. 415273[/snapback] Those weren't my words, those were Sam Wyches words about JP's play.
stuckincincy Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 I'd agree with you if "honest" were the only way to describe this opinion. But other adjectives crop up long before you get to "honest." 415250[/snapback] Thank you for today's ya-ya.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Those weren't my words, those were Sam Wyches words about JP's play. 415285[/snapback] Sam's words were also that he is playing really well, and Sam spoke and acted as if he thinks Losman will be a star. Sam is extremely happy with Losman so far. Is that your opinion of Losman, too?
eball Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Because if everyone sat around with rose colored glasses singing Kumbi - by !@#$ing - yah, then what need would there be for the board.Poster 1 - JP is great Poster 2 - I agree Poster 3 - Yeah we haven't made the playoffs in 6 years, but TD, MM are doing a greate job. Oh yeah and JP is great. Poster 4 - I agree with everybody else, we should change a thing with this team, even though we never make the playoffs Then we have others Poster 5 - We have issues as a team, here is what I see. a.b.c Poster 1 - You suck poster 5 and are not a Bills fan Poster 2 - At least he isn't Drew, but poster 5 you're an idiot Poster 3- I agree with poster 1 and 2 Poster 4 - Yeah what they said, because I am unable to ahave an original thought nor comprehend anything beyond what One Bills Drive is telling me. 415270[/snapback] your maturity level is approaching BF status...you should be arriving there shortly.
Bill from NYC Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Sam's words were also that he is playing really well, and Sam spoke and acted as if he thinks Losman will be a star. Sam is extremely happy with Losman so far. Is that your opinion of Losman, too? 415291[/snapback] I am not VA, but I would like to take a stab at this.... Having now seen more of JP, I am very impressed with him as an athlete. He throws crisp passes, and I am thrilled by, and grateful for his work ethic. I think he might very well be good, but who in hell would know whether or not he will be a star! Do you think that he will be a star?
VABills Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 Sam's words were also that he is playing really well, and Sam spoke and acted as if he thinks Losman will be a star. Sam is extremely happy with Losman so far. Is that your opinion of Losman, too? 415291[/snapback] I don't know how to evaluate his future ability. From what I have seen I am disappointed in his level of play so far. I see some good things and I see some bad things. The difference on whether he will be good or not is if he can overcome those bad things.
VABills Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 your maturity level is approaching BF status...you should be arriving there shortly. 415293[/snapback] I am the only one of us two having a mature and intelligent conversation with a point counterpoint. You on the otherhand are being a compete and total retard who offers no balance to any conversation.
Ramius Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 I am the only one of us two having a mature and intelligent conversation with a point counterpoint. You on the otherhand are being a compete and total retard who offers no balance to any conversation. 415299[/snapback] I would hardly call "JP sucks and hasnt played well, and if you think otherwise you are wrong/an idiot" point and counterpoint...
VABills Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 I would hardly call "JP sucks and hasnt played well, and if you think otherwise you are wrong/an idiot" point and counterpoint... 415302[/snapback] Show me a post where I said that. I have stated time and again that I am disappointed in his play and right now he sucks. I have stated my disappointment comes more from the coaches overhyping and stating how great he looked in these "private" off season sessions, and then he goes on the field and looks worse then some of the other 2nd year starters for other teams.
stuckincincy Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 I am not VA, but I would like to take a stab at this.... Having now seen more of JP, I am very impressed with him as an athlete. He throws crisp passes, and I am thrilled by, and grateful for his work ethic. I think he might very well be good, but who in hell would know whether or not he will be a star! Do you think that he will be a star? 415295[/snapback] He might. He might just be servicable, which is fine if the other parts are in place. There have been tons of qb's that fit that description - Bill Nelsen, Neil O'Donnell, Stan Humphries, Jim Harbaugh, Steve Grogan, Earl Morrell, Bobby Hebert, and so on - not "marquee" stars but competent qb's that minimized mistakes and maximized smarts.
eball Posted August 23, 2005 Posted August 23, 2005 I don't know how to evaluate his future ability. From what I have seen I am disappointed in his level of play so far. I see some good things and I see some bad things. The difference on whether he will be good or not is if he can overcome those bad things. 415297[/snapback] you call this an intelligent point/counterpoint?
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