Sam Wyche- your star pupil is shining

[Corp000085]

Yeah, it was ugly...but you have to expect that with a 1st year starter I guess.

413859[/snapback]

 

 

it was a penalty... that's like docking a kicker some accuracy % if he missed a kick and the defense was offsides. the guy he was going to throw it to was not open, and he was trying to make something happen with a free play (although not too well, but he still tried). no harm no foul.

[BB2004]

With two more pre-season games , combined with the determination that Losman showed in the off-season, folks we have a winner. By 4:00 p.m. on 9/11 the critics will be silenced.

413285[/snapback]

 

I remain optimist as well, but the regular season is very soon and only time will tell if a star is born.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Well at least it's better to make those mistakes when it doesn't count (and doesn't hurt you either during the game) than when it DOES count. And JP's a quick learner. He won't make the same mistake twice.

[Lori]

But he seems to learn from his mistakes, after the sack/safety, on two other occasions that he was rushed and had to scramble, he just threw the ball away rather than take a sack or make an illadvised throw. These pre season games are giving him experience that no amount of study can.

413603[/snapback]

Agreed. I actually applauded one of those throwaways, the one that landed in about the fourth or fifth row of section 109. A Bills QB of the recent past spent four YEARS here without figuring out how to do that....

[AKC]

My two biggest concerns are his lack of confidence in the pocket, even when it's perfectly formed, and his lack of discipline in sliding.

 

The safety was one of about 4 plays during the game in which he bailed on a pocket that would have given him his best shot at a big play. He is far too ready to skeeter out the back or sides even when the line has done its work and he won't be a good QB until he overcomes those jitters. To be fair to him it took Elway and Steve Young years to figure it out but the record over the history of the league is clear- you don't do your team or your chances of success any favors by blowing off legitimate pockets.

 

His refusal to avoid contact with defenders will cost him playing time this season, the only question right now is how much. The NFL just isn't as forgiving as Conference USA and those stupid decisions to put his head forward will lead to him being hurt. You hate to temper the kid's competitiveness but exposing your body to needless injury is irresponsible and the team should be doing more- like maybe jerking him off the field- when he does it.

[Kelly the Dog]

My two biggest concerns are his lack of confidence in the pocket, even when it's perfectly formed, and his lack of discipline in sliding.

 

The safety was one of about 4 plays during the game in which he bailed on a pocket that would have given him his best shot at a big play. He is far too ready to skeeter out the back or sides even when the line has done its work and he won't be a good QB until he overcomes those jitters. To be fair to him it took Elway and Steve Young years to figure it out but the record over the history of the league is clear- you don't do your team or your chances of success any favors by blowing off legitimate pockets.

 

His refusal to avoid contact with defenders will cost him playing time this season, the only question right now is how much. The NFL just isn't as forgiving as Conference USA and those stupid decisions to put his head forward will lead to him being hurt. You hate to temper the kid's competitiveness but exposing your body to needless injury is irresponsible and the team should be doing more- like maybe jerking him off the field- when he does it.

414600[/snapback]

Good points. It's gotta to be friggin' hard to get just the right amount of "don't do this" and "play smart" when it comes to JP. You really don't want to retard his enthusiasm, or even his schoolyard playmaking skills and tendencies, because they are what really make him dangerous. And yet you don't want him running all the time and going crazy. There is REALLY a fine line and I can't imagine the difference in, say, what Kevin Gilbride and Gregg Williams would have been telling JP in this case, versus what former players and known coaches like MM and Clements and Wyche are saying to him. God, we are lucky.

 

Still, I expect them to try to tightrope-walk the situation until JP learns when to go and when to just say no, and that may take a while. I get the feeling that the first time he is REALLY popped by an NFL safety or linebacker or lineman (even without injuring him) will really go a long way to stop his over-eagerness. Plus, I really do think a lot of his lowering the shoulder into tacklers (which is just plain dumb) is based on JP's inner want to impress his teammates and us Bills fans and even the coaches that he is fearless and tough and Kelly-esque. He really won't have to do that much longer because he is winning them over quite easily.

[AKC]

I really do think a lot of his lowering the shoulder into tacklers (which is just plain dumb) is based on JP's inner want to impress his teammates and us Bills fans and even the coaches that he is fearless and tough and Kelly-esque. He really won't have to do that much longer because he is winning them over quite easily.

414609[/snapback]

 

It's clear the kid is driven to win; if that can be funnelled correctly it can be a huge positive but right now it's disappointing because we'd like to see some sign that he's recognizing that Jim Kelly played against a lot of linebackers who hit like today's safeties.

 

On the slide issue, the reality is JP being on the sidelines is a worst case scenario for us this season as it simply stunts his learning, and the best way to keep him on the field is to convince him to slide- if he won't do it in meaningless scrims and pre-season games you can bet the farm he won't do it in the regular season.

 

But I'd go so far as to say the sliding is much less of a concern- I really want to see him move up to the pocket- it helps your line develop alos instead of the Tackles finding their man taking a poor angle upfield and still having a shot at a scrambling QB. You just can't ask your line to do to many things, and it's far too much to ask our OTs to block for a traditional passing pocket only to realize the QB's run off behind the protection.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

My two biggest concerns are his lack of confidence in the pocket, even when it's perfectly formed, and his lack of discipline in sliding.

 

The safety was one of about 4 plays during the game in which he bailed on a pocket that would have given him his best shot at a big play. He is far too ready to skeeter out the back or sides even when the line has done its work and he won't be a good QB until he overcomes those jitters. To be fair to him it took Elway and Steve Young years to figure it out but the record over the history of the league is clear- you don't do your team or your chances of success any favors by blowing off legitimate pockets.

 

His refusal to avoid contact with defenders will cost him playing time this season, the only question right now is how much. The NFL just isn't as forgiving as Conference USA and those stupid decisions to put his head forward will lead to him being hurt. You hate to temper the kid's competitiveness but exposing your body to needless injury is irresponsible and the team should be doing more- like maybe jerking him off the field- when he does it.

414600[/snapback]

 

What, no one's concerned that he STARES at one receiver to the exclusion of all others? I just watched him consistently do that on the first drive against GB, and it's not the first time I've seen him do that.

 

Fortunately, he CAN be coached to stop that...but they better cure him of that quick, as he'll be eaten alive in the regular season doing that.

[Kelly the Dog]

What, no one's concerned that he STARES at one receiver to the exclusion of all others?  I just watched him consistently do that on the first drive against GB, and it's not the first time I've seen him do that. 

 

Fortunately, he CAN be coached to stop that...but they better cure him of that quick, as he'll be eaten alive in the regular season doing that.

414666[/snapback]

I saw him drop back to pass four times on that drive. The first two were three step drops and he threw almost immediately for a 3 and 4 yard gain. How can you call this staring down one receiver? It was designed that way, he dropped back, looked and threw instantly. He didnt have more than 2 seconds, and he completed both balls. The third pass he looked to two guys, IMO, and then ran up the middle for the first down. The fourth pass he looked to both the TE and FB before running for a TD. I see no reason to fault any sing;le one of those plays for staring down a receiver.

[AKC]

What, no one's concerned that he STARES at one receiver to the exclusion of all others?  I just watched him consistently do that on the first drive against GB, and it's not the first time I've seen him do that. 

 

Fortunately, he CAN be coached to stop that...but they better cure him of that quick, as he'll be eaten alive in the regular season doing that.

414666[/snapback]

 

To be honest with you I've really only been watching our line play so far this season and that's why I'm seeing the pockets wasted when he drops out- I haven't watched his read progressions yet.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I saw him drop back to pass four times on that drive. The first two were three step drops and he threw almost immediately for a 3 and 4 yard gain. How can you call this staring down one receiver? It was designed that way, he dropped back, looked and threw instantly. He didnt have more than 2 seconds, and he completed both balls. The third pass he looked to two guys, IMO, and then ran up the middle for the first down. The fourth pass he looked to both the TE and FB before running for a TD. I see no reason to fault any sing;le one of those plays for staring down a receiver.

414669[/snapback]

That is ENTIRELY different from what I'm seeing. When the game's over, I'll rewind the tape and detail my observations. But I will say that if a schmuck like me on the other side of the TV can tell where the ball's going WELL before he throws it...well, he's probably telegraphing something then.

 

His second drive, though, really shows what he can do with proper technique...and what happens when he tries to overcome bad technique with arm strength. He hung Moulds out to dry with that pass.

[Kelly the Dog]

  That is ENTIRELY different from what I'm seeing.  When the game's over, I'll rewind the tape and detail my observations.  But I will say that if a schmuck like me on the other side of the TV can tell where the ball's going WELL before he throws it...well, he's probably telegraphing something then. 

 

His second drive, though, really shows what he can do with proper technique...and what happens when he tries to overcome bad technique with arm strength.  He hung Moulds out to dry with that pass.

414690[/snapback]

When you're watching the replay, watch the replay of the Moulds pass. JP threw the ball the only place he could have thrown it. Moulds had to jump and he should have caught the ball. There was a defender on his back and there was a defender coming in from the other side. An argument could be made that he shouldn't have thrown the ball into tight coverage but I disagree with that. He made the right decision because he saw a little opening and he delivered the ball where it needed to go. Usually, a quaterback leaves a WR out to dry when he lobs a pass high that he should have gunned straight into his chest. On the regular camera shot it looked like he threw it too high. When they show the roll out from behind, and I think you see a better POV of what JP was looking at, it was a pretty good pass, and should have been caught. Your receivers are sometimes going to be smacked going over the middle.

 

Also, I guess one sees what one is looking for. I simply don't understand the criticism on the first series of looking at a receiver briefly and then gunning the ball to him for a completion. What is the alternative, looking him off and getting creamed? Looking him off and then finding no one else open? There is no way one can say IMO that he stood there for more than a second to the detriment of the play. He dropped back, looked, saw a guy barely open, gunned it right to him immediately, the guy caught it and was instantly tackled. There wasn't any wasted time, indecision, or problem whatsoever with that.

[AKC]

When you're watching the replay, watch the replay of the Moulds pass.

414702[/snapback]

 

It was refreshing to see the nice touch and accuracy on a little flip he tossed in the GB or Indy game over a LB, but he sure is hanging out his receivers at this point in time. He should get over that to some degree with confidence. Hope he doesn't get anyone hurt in the meantime.

 

He does use a little more mustard on a lot of balls than I'd like to see. It's another one of those Yin/Yang things, great to see the strong arm- not so great to see it overused.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

When you're watching the replay, watch the replay of the Moulds pass. JP threw the ball the only place he could have thrown it. Moulds had to jump and he should have caught the ball. There was a defender on his back and there was a defender coming in from the other side. An argument could be made that he shouldn't have thrown the ball into tight coverage but I disagree with that. He made the right decision because he saw a little opening and he delivered the ball where it needed to go. Usually, a quaterback leaves a WR out to dry when he lobs a pass high that he should have gunned straight into his chest. On the regular camera shot it looked like he threw it too high. When the show the roll out from behind, and I think you see a better POV of what JP was looking at, it was a pretty good pass, and should have been caught. Your receivers are sometimes going to be smacked going over the middle.

 

Also, I guess one sees what one is looking for. I simply don't understand the criticism on the first series of looking at a receiver briefly and then gunning the ball to him for a completion. What is the alternative, looking him off and getting creamed? Looking him off and then finding no one else open. There is no way one can say IMO that he stood there for more than a second to the detriment of the play. He dropped back, looked, saw a guy barely open, gunned it right to him, the guy caught it and was immediately tackled. There wasn't any wasted time, indecison, or problem whatsoever with that.

414702[/snapback]

 

Re: staring at receivers. I just watched him do it again, TWICE. The flea-flicker to Reed, he stared at Reed from the handoff through to the throw, taking his eyes off him to make sure he caught the pitch-back. Then on the following play, on the out to Reed, took the snap and never bothered to look at anyone else. On a flea-flicker, that's inexcusable. On the following out...well, you CAN argue that "he took a three step drop and gunned the ball immediately on a short route", even though he didn't (dropped back, set - which was nice to see, FINALLY, patted the ball, threw0, and even though plenty of other QBs would look off their ultimate target. But the only play I haven't seen him do that in is his "scared rabbit" scamper to open the third drive.

 

On the plus side, in that out to Reed, staring at Reed was probably the only think he !@#$ed up. It shows what he can do IF he uses proper technique instead of using his very considerable arm strength to overcome his terminally putrid technique.

 

And overall, I'm not THAT concerned that he stares at receivers. Lots of young QBs have done that and overcome it. And now that I think of it, I shouldn't be all that surprised that it's been overlooked amidst all the JP Losman-as-Messiah worship here.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

It was refreshing to see the nice touch and accuracy on a little flip he tossed in the GB or Indy game over a LB, but he sure is hanging out his receivers at this point in time. He should get over that to some degree with confidence. Hope he doesn't get anyone hurt in the meantime.

 

He does use a little more mustard on a lot of balls than I'd like to see. It's another one of those Yin/Yang things, great to see the strong arm- not so great to see it overused.

414707[/snapback]

 

A function of youth, again. Lots of young, strong QBs overthrow receivers until they learn to control their arm strength. But I don't believe the pass to Moulds was that kind of situation.

[Kelly the Dog]

It was refreshing to see the nice touch and accuracy on a little flip he tossed in the GB or Indy game over a LB, but he sure is hanging out his receivers at this point in time. He should get over that to some degree with confidence. Hope he doesn't get anyone hurt in the meantime.

 

He does use a little more mustard on a lot of balls than I'd like to see. It's another one of those Yin/Yang things, great to see the strong arm- not so great to see it overused.

414707[/snapback]

Without question, to me, he doesn't use velocity well at times. Sometimes when guys are wide open, including twice in the Green Bay game, he gunned it too hard and it was too high and the WRs dropped the ball. One was to Evans and one was to Aiken I think. Both passes he had a ton of time and should have thrown it right to them. he threw too hard, and while they both could have and should have been caught, they were not good passes. He needs to learn when he must gun the ball and when it is not necessary. That is one of the least of our worries about him though.

[Kelly the Dog]

Re: staring at receivers.  I just watched him do it again, TWICE.  The flea-flicker to Reed, he stared at Reed from the handoff through to the throw, taking his eyes off him to make sure he caught the pitch-back.  Then on the following play, on the out to Reed, took the snap and never bothered to look at anyone else.  On a flea-flicker, that's inexcusable.  On the following out...well, you CAN argue that "he took a three step drop and gunned the ball immediately on a short route", even though he didn't (dropped back, set - which was nice to see, FINALLY, patted the ball, threw0, and even though plenty of other QBs would look off their ultimate target.  But the only play I haven't seen him do that in is his "scared rabbit" scamper to open the third drive.

 

On the plus side, in that out to Reed, staring at Reed was probably the only think he !@#$ed up.  It shows what he can do IF he uses proper technique instead of using his very considerable arm strength to overcome his terminally putrid technique.

 

And overall, I'm not THAT concerned that he stares at receivers.  Lots of young QBs have done that and overcome it.  And now that I think of it, I shouldn't be all that surprised that it's been overlooked amidst all the JP Losman-as-Messiah worship here. 

414709[/snapback]

In both of THOSE instances, which we weren't talking about, I totally agree with you.

 

Neither of them, however, were bad decisions, not perfect passes, nor had any effect on the defense (in other words, he looked at the right guy and threw to the right guy, and even if he didnt stare at him, the defenders would have been in the exact same positions).

[Kelly the Dog]

Besides, doesn't anyone know or care that Holcomb has the happiest feet on the team?

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

In both of THOSE instances, which we weren't talking about, I totally agree with you.

 

Neither of them, however, were bad decisions, not perfect passes, nor had any effect on the defense (in other words, he looked at the right guy and threw to the right guy, and even if he didnt stare at him, the defenders would have been in the exact same positions).

414723[/snapback]

 

So because it worked, it's okay, even though it's bad play...and even though the flea flicker DIDN'T work, largely because the defensive backs didn't bite on the run and played "pass" all the way...which presumably had nothing to do with Losman staring down the receiver the entire play?

 

Uh, okay.

[Kelly the Dog]

So because it worked, it's okay, even though it's bad play...and even though the flea flicker DIDN'T work, largely because the defensive backs didn't bite on the run and played "pass" all the way...which presumably had nothing to do with Losman staring down the receiver the entire play? 

 

Uh, okay. 

414799[/snapback]

So from about the 30 yard line, Losman hands the ball off to Willis and steps back, Willis runs into the line, stops, turns around, laterals back, Losman catches it and then throws a perfect pass that hits the receiver right in the hands but he drops it and you blame Losman for the defensive backs NOT biting on the run fake? Are you friggin' INSANE?!

 

Ooops, I forgot, you are.