Clements agent at Tues. practice

[dave mcbride]

Totally swung momentum? It was 2:00 into the game and resulted in nothing more than a FG. 

Do you remember anything else from that game? Like the two other fumbles that Clements forced and the Bills recovered? Or the multiple passes he defended, one of which was a great tip that resulted in Spikes interception? Or the touchdown he scored off his own interception that gave the Bills the lead in the 3rd quarter. Or the pile of tackles he had since he was all over the field throughout the game?

Nate Clements was responsible for 4 P'burgh turnovers, was second on the team in tackles and with all due respect to PhatPat's outstanding effort, was the best player on the field in the Bills biggest game of the year.

You guys are unbelievable sometimes. Do you have any idea what the life of a corner is like? He is the last line of defense and is under pressure on every single play of every game. Everybody in the front7 can take plays off here and there but if a corner takes a play off it's likely 6 points because he ahs nobody covering his back. Everybody in the front 7 can lose his battle here and there but if a corner loses his battle it's likely a significant gain because he has nobody covering his back. And about the only time anyone ever notices a corner is when he does make a mistake or get beat and then they're screeching for his head. You can make 50 perfect plays in a row and then make one tiny mistake, and suddenly people are screaming about how much you suck.

Clements made one mistake on one play trying to do too much in the first game of the year (a game in which he had held HOF'er Jimmy Smith to 3 catches for 30 yrds, was 3rd on the team in tackles and had a pick at the Jag 20 which led to the Bills only TD) and it's all you knuckleheads can talk about when assessing his play.

I want you all to take a mental inventory of the Bills last season and make a list of all the times that Nate got beat or screwed up on the corner. When you come up with a grand total of about 1 while running about 1,000 plays your mouths should be gaping in wonder at that incredible effort. Nate Clements was by far the best CB in the NFL last season, and there wasn't even a close second. But yeah, y'all keep talking about the one mistake he made while ignoring the 900+ other plays he did make.

All that being said, even though he's one of the leagues most valuable players, is incredibly durable and plays a terribly difficult postion to fill, I'd be very hesitant to make him the highest paid corner in the NFL. It's an awful lot of money to tie up in one guy when you have an entire roster to stock.

410832[/snapback]

 

nothing like a good talking to from simon. for my part, i've been harping for almost a year now that smith made a great, great play, and that clements was in perfect position. sometimes you've gotta give credit to the guy on the other team.

[dave mcbride]

Didn't he basically cost us a game with a bone-head play?

410614[/snapback]

no, he didn't.

[dave mcbride]

Say hello franchise tag ... agree quickly to a deal with team like Spikes did before money dries out or end up playing on one year deal or going thru same thing next year.  If you are the best then you are CERTAINLY worth tagging.

Yep.  Nate can be very, very good or make very, very big screwups at wrong time.  But like Henry I see a team being willing to limit his minuses in a new deal especially if he does not make those kind of mental mistakes this year.

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what screwups are you referring to? please don't say the jimmy smith play. that was a great play by smith, who in all likelihood is headed to the hall of fame.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Yes, yes he is. Pay the man (but don't break the bank doing it). Hopefully Nate will give Buffalo a little team-that-drafted-me discount, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I was responding to a post on a Nate thread and then I could not reply to it and it seems to be gone. At any rate here is the reply and post.

 

what other CB has contributed as much in the way of POINTS for his team?  nate has returned numerous punts and INTs for TDs.  he also forces fumbles and has the ability to shut down an opponent's top receiver (see:  chad johnson).  i don't want to hear about the 4th down against jacksonville last year; nate made more than enough fantastic plays to make up for that one bad play.

 

i'm not saying that the bills SHOULD pay him if it doesn't work within the team construct, but he IS worthy of top-CB money.

410819[/snapback]

 

My sense is that the Bills should make a lot of effort to keep him as the issue of whether he is the best in the league at CB is peripheral (it is important as it relates to how much the market will give him) and the important thing is clearly he is the best CB on our team

 

1. McGee is better than NC in terms of non-position contribution but needs to learn the CB position and may be better than NC in the long-run,

2. Greer is impressive and a good #3 (nice INT in the game) but no where near the shutdown guy Nate is right now and probably in the long run.

3. Thomas also is impressive in spurts but nver translated the big play ability he showed in college to consistent performance as a pro. His current injury sidetracks him as he will need to demonstrate he got his speed back but he is a #3 at best for right now.

4. Vincent is a great resource because he is well-respected quality guy but as he gets older he should not be relied upon to cover speed WRs consistently as a CB. However, though his injury last year raises the age issue in a real way, he looked great transfering his ability to the safety slot and may well be one of the best at that position having to rely more on brain-power to be in the right position but the age issue reara its head once again as there will be a higher tackling demand at safety than CB. If we need a reserve CB for a game due to injury he is likely a great choice.

5. King is a prospect with some potential and nothing more and based on his performance so far nothing less.

 

Due to his PR chops and his age (heading into his prime) he is certainly someone to be signed, However, given that we have 5 options to find 4 guys next year we do not have to do something huge (like we did at saftey where the GW/Gray misassessment of Jenkins forced us not only to start Wire when he could not do the job, but the unfortunate retirements of BOTH Cota and Battle forced us to spend a load on Milloy- fortunately he has stepped up a lot but it still is a load).

 

I say sign him and the very good news is that the new cap level next year bouyed by TV money will lilkely allow us to do something outrageous in terms of absolute $ for him because we have to under the CBA anyway.

 

If NC judges that the market for him under the new cap will give him such a windfall that his demands are extraordinary (beyond the $18 million bonus Chump Bailey received) the Bills should not go there not because we cannot afford it under the likely new cap. but because it blows any sense of our budget and we have lesser talent alternatives than NC but acceptable ones if NC's prices is too high.

[Crows57]

How high, specifically, would you go to sign Clements?

 

Recent signings:

Bailey - 7 for $63, $18 bonus

McAlister - 7 for $55, $17.5

Surtain - 7 for $51, $14

Lucas - 6 for $36, $13

 

I'll start out - 6 years, $42 million, $15 up front. (I'm not saying that's what it'll take, but how high I'd go)

[BuffaloDynamite]

How high, specifically, would you go to sign Clements?

 

Recent signings:

Bailey - 7 for $63, $18 bonus

McAlister - 7 for $55, $17.5

Surtain - 7 for $51, $14

Lucas - 6 for $36, $13

 

I'll start out - 6 years, $42 million, $15 up front.  (I'm not saying that's what it'll take, but how high I'd go)

410874[/snapback]

Got to beat the Lucas deal-he sucks

[EndZoneCrew]

I'd go 6 for 32 million......19 million bonus

[Simon]

I was responding to a post on a Nate thread and then I could not reply to it and it seems to be gone. At any rate here is the reply and post.

Sorry for the confusion. Somebody (not me this time) merged two threads about Nate into this one big one. They must have caught you in mid key-stroke.

 

McGee is better than NC in terms of non-position contribution

That is probably debatable but I wouldn't even know where to begin the debate.

 

McGee......needs to learn the CB position and may be better than NC in the long-run,

That is not debatable as there is not the slightest chance in any of multiple parallel universes that McGee will ever remotely approach the level of DB play we've seen from Clements the last couple years.

[1billsfan]

Yes, yes he is. Pay the man (but don't break the bank doing it). Hopefully Nate will give Buffalo a little team-that-drafted-me discount, but I'm not holding my breath.

410846[/snapback]

 

Nate "I'm the best and I don't settle for nothing less" Clements sounds an awful lot like he plans on breaking the bank.

 

If I'm Donahoe I'd mention that the team reserves the right to franchise tag Nate keeping him here for two more years. Then I'd offer him a top five, not top, cornerback contract.

 

He will be franchised if he doesn't sign an extention. TD would be a fool to just let him go.

[kota]

We also have Mcgee to sign as well.

 

WE could always franchise Clements haha.

[EndZoneCrew]

Considered among the league's top emerging shutdown corners, he's coming off his best season, in which he matched a career high with six interceptions and had a career-high four forced fumbles. His most memorable game last year came in Buffalo's 33-17 win over Cincinnati, when he forced a fumble and held Bengals' top receiver Chad Johnson to two catches for 10 yards.

 

Overall, Clements has 18 interceptions - four of which he's returned for touchdowns - and seven forced fumbles.

 

Clements is also a proven punt-return threat, having returned four for scores. His six touchdown returns are a franchise record, and he's the only Bills player to lead the team in interceptions for four consecutive years.

 

Who wrote this? Todd France...

[Ned Flanders]

that was a great play by smith, who in all likelihood is headed to the hall of fame.

410842[/snapback]

 

Um, no...Jimmy Smith is NOT going to Canton. The only way he gets in the HOF is by buying a ticket.

 

If Art Monk can't get in, a guy who, when he retired, held the NFL receptions record, how in Sam Hill can you state Jimmy Smith deserves to get in?

[Hardy Pyle]

I think you only play top dollar to play makers who can win games and I put Clements in that category. This guy is a difference maker.

 

I really like our depth at corner and we could live without Clements. Our depth makes you competive every year. Guys like Clements win you a superbowl. Depends what we want.

[dave mcbride]

Um, no...Jimmy Smith is NOT going to Canton.  The only way he gets in the HOF is by buying a ticket.

 

If Art Monk can't get in, a guy who, when he retired, held the NFL receptions record, how in Sam Hill can you state Jimmy Smith deserves to get in? 

410935[/snapback]

 

smith has been a much more dangerous receiver and bigger deep threat than monk over the course of his career. if he plays 2 more full seasons, he'll in all likelihood surpass monk in every relevant statistical category, despite losing two seasons to injury at the beginning of his career with dallas.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

That is probably debatable but I wouldn't even know where to begin the debate.

 

410891[/snapback]

[/quote

 

I think a debate about whether McGee is more valuable than HC in terms of ST play starts with TDs and yardage produced on ST. The debate starts with the number of TD returns produced by McGee on KR and by NC on PR and I think McGee wins 3 to 1 (or something like that this is merely from my falliable memory banks and may be incorrect).

 

The yardage issue is more difficult to figure as KRs produce more yards than PRs but here I think there is an indication that McGee earned Pro Bowl status because of his ST while it was the position work which played the lead role in NC slipping in as a reserve.

 

While Clements is a good PR guy, i think him laying a PR on the carpet at least once last year makes it a pretty good bet that if you are going into this debate you probably come out of it judging McGee to have had a better year last year as an ST player for the Bills than NC.

 

That is not debatable as there is not the slightest chance in any of multiple parallel universes that McGee will ever remotely approach the level of DB play we've seen from Clements the last couple years.

410891[/snapback]

 

I also think there is no debate that NC is a far better position player at CB than McGee. If you choose not to believe me (my wife will tell ya never believe me) then actually believe NFL QBs and OCs who given a choice of who to pick on or who to line their top receiver up against rotinely picked on the young m

Mcgee rather than the playmaker NC.

 

Nevertheless, their is the age and development issue. McGee was picked on quite badly and gave up a long pass reception a game in mid-season when the injury to Vincent forced us to use this youngster as a position player.

 

Yet, I judge that there was improvement in his game (he achieved adequacy at best at CB toward the end of last year) over the course of the season.

 

McGee does not show as much at CB as a youngster as Clements did (NC could be burned, but he picked off the likes of Peyton Manning and whoever was QB for Miami at the time for TDs as a young player). However. given the improvement to adequacy last year, given that McGee has shown some flashes of brilliance already in the pre-season game and the scrimmage as a cover guy, and given that compared to Winfield, it was actually the young NC who got picked on his first couple of years like McGee is correctly picked on compared to going up against Clements it is not an unreasonable judgment that McGee might one day assume the #1 CB role for the Bills.

 

My sense is that the best thing for the Bills to do is to sign McGee now to a cheaper long-term deal. We have tremendous leverage on him because it is two seasons before he hits the open market and eve if he craps out as a CB, we likely will get substantial benefit from him as a KR guy.

 

Fiscally, it probably makes themost sense for us to franchise tag NC next year. He gets a large payment ofthe average of the top 5 cap hits, but not as large a cash outlay as a likely bonus payment if we signed him. He probably plays hard as recent franchisees have done because in essence they are in a contract year, though they deal with the dissatisfaction of the instability by getting a huge payment in base salary.

 

Particularly in this transition year heading toward a new salary cap franchise tagging him probably makes the most sense.

[Simon]

their is the age and development issue. McGee was picked on quite badly and gave up a long pass reception a game in mid-season .......... Yet, I judge that there was improvement in his game over the course of the season.

 

I agree that he did make some strides, but I thought they occured in the early stages of his career as an NFL corner and then he seemed to plateau and maintain the same level through the rest of the year. The biggest worry I had in that was not him giving up a ball downfield per game (in which his coverage was still usually very good), but rather in how inviting a target he remained on 3rd down. There were just far too many instances wher the Bills D would hold for 2 downs only to not be able to get off the field because opposing co-ordinators would fall back on the oft tried and true method of working McGee and beatin him at the sticks.

Early in the Colts scrimmage I was a little worried because it looked like business as usual for Terrence as he seemed to struggle somewhat with his quicks which resulted in guys getting free underneath him. But then as the evening progressed and the nerves settled I thought I saw some improvement in his footwork and his shortgame, resulting in better coverage underneath than we were accustomed to seeing from him.

It still remains to be seen if this translates into the regular season but it was somewhat edifying to observe some potential improvement in what I had previously viewed as the weakest part of his game.

 

As for him ever approaching the level of play which Nate has exhibited over the last year or two, I just can't even imagine a scenario where it's possible. Partly because McGee just isn'at as big and strong on his feet as Nate, and doesn't play the ball nearly as well as Nate, can't physically dominate his opponent in the ground or air game the way Nate does and also because he doesn't have that aggressive (almost desperately vicious) temperment that Clements and many other great CB's carry.

I also can't envision McGee catching (or even approaching) Nate simply because Clements just put up one of the best seasons I have ever seen in my life by an NFL corner. Maybe I'm leaning toward hyperbole here, but I reallly don't think that most people recognize just how unbelievably dominant Clements actually was in '04. That was truly a season for the ages and if he puts up another like it there is going to be talk about his potential to join the pantheon of greatest cornerbacks in the history of this sport.

Cya

[damaynman150]

i posted earlier about nc n here r more of my thoughts:

i sure hope he stays in buffalo cuz he is a lock down corner and quite frankly (shout out to stephen a smith! haha riiiight) i wouldnt want to see terrence mcgee lining up across from the moss' and TO's of the league game in and game out. hes not bad but hes not nate clements. if the bills dont get him signed, i get the feeling that we will b spending a 1st rd pick on a CB for the 3rd time in 6 drafts

[Bill from NYC]

I agree that he did make some strides, but I thought they occured in the early stages of his career as an NFL corner and then he seemed to plateau and maintain the same level through the rest of the year. The biggest worry I had in that was not him giving up a ball downfield per game (in which his coverage was still usually very good), but rather in how inviting a target he remained on 3rd down. There were just far too many instances wher the Bills D would hold for 2 downs only to not be able to get off the field because opposing co-ordinators would fall back on the oft tried and true method of working McGee and beatin him at the sticks.

Early in the Colts scrimmage I was a little worried because it looked like business as usual for Terrence as he seemed to struggle somewhat with his quicks which resulted in guys getting free underneath him. But then as the evening progressed and the nerves settled I thought I saw some improvement in his footwork and his shortgame, resulting in better coverage underneath than we were accustomed to seeing from him.

It still remains to be seen if this translates into the regular season but it was somewhat edifying to observe some potential improvement in what I had previously viewed as the weakest part of his game.

 

As for him ever approaching the level of play which Nate has exhibited over the last year or two, I just can't even imagine a scenario where it's possible. Partly because McGee just isn'at as big and strong on his feet as Nate, and doesn't play the ball nearly as well as Nate, can't physically dominate his opponent in the ground or air game the way Nate does and also because he doesn't have that aggressive (almost desperately vicious) temperment that Clements and many other great CB's carry.

I also can't envision McGee catching (or even approaching) Nate simply because Clements just put up one of the best seasons I have ever seen in my life by an NFL corner. Maybe I'm leaning toward hyperbole here, but I reallly don't think that most people recognize just how unbelievably dominant Clements actually was in '04. That was truly a season for the ages and if he puts up another like it there is going to be talk about his potential to join the pantheon of greatest cornerbacks in the history of this sport.

Cya

411570[/snapback]

 

Wow! To even place the name of Clements among all-time greats such as Sanders and Blount (my personal favorite) is saying quite a bit. Because of your vast knowledge about this position, I am going to re-think my stance to giving this much money to a corner....any corner.

Historically, the Bills draft corners in round 1, and let them walk. T. Smith, Burress, Jones (drafted as a corner), and Winfield are names that I recall who were drafted in round 1. Other than Jones (a converted safety), they all walked in free agency, and it never appeared that the Bills tried all that hard to re-sign them.

 

I have always supported this stance. I would, as a general rule, rather pay the huge bucks to blockers, qbs, and DEs. Looking at superbowl rosters, there are a HUGE number of dominant LTs on those teams.

Pace, Ogden, Elliot, Slater, Shell, Wolford, Tunei (OK the whole OL was great ), Jacoby.

These are just some of the names that pop into my head of guys that helped bring their team to the big game. There are surely others.

The Bills play in a climate where it is not easy to pass when the weather is freezing and there is snow. On days like that, running takes precedence, and blocking is what makes it happen.

 

Despite the above, if you truly consider NC to be an all-time great, I guess it would be silly to let him walk, this if he truly wants to stay.

I cannot picture Mr. Wilson breaking the bank for a corner, but I hope that it works out.

 

Thanks for the passion and the insight above.

[Rico]

I think you only play top dollar to play makers who can win games and I put Clements in that category. This guy is a difference maker.

410959[/snapback]

That says it all.

 

PAY HIM, TD!