philburger1 Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Richard Reid, the aircraft 'shoe bomber', was also of part West Indies extraction. 410659[/snapback] Did you see his photo? http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2001/12...mage322435x.jpg It think if you looked like that you might get a little extra 'attention' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 And let us not forget that the latest Al Qaeda cell was located in our own prison system amongst guys recruited in prison. American guys. It's not a religious thing, it's a hatred thing. Had Timothy McVeigh not been executed, he would probably have danced with glee on 9/11, and he was as Aryan-looking as they come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 And let us not forget that the latest Al Qaeda cell was located in our own prison system amongst guys recruited in prison. American guys. It's not a religious thing, it's a hatred thing. Had Timothy McVeigh not been executed, he would probably have danced with glee on 9/11, and he was as Aryan-looking as they come. 411168[/snapback] Blz, this is a copy of a post I made in a different thred: "Nobody complains when folks of Italian extraction are targeted when there is a push to capture Mafia criminals. I guess it's ok if the profile target is Caucasian." What do you think about that? Likely, you will have problems combating the Mafia (and I absoultly hate any romanticizing about them such as in that "Sopranos" tv show) unless their ethnicity and appearance are given special attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Tate Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 ...and I absoultly hate any romanticizing about them such as in that "Sopranos" tv show... "The Godfather" romanticized the Mafia. "The Sopranos" Mafia characters are, to a man, ignorant, bungling momma's boys who are the polar opposites of the "Godfather" series noble, dignified dons. Which is probably closer to the truth. Still not for everyone, but it's definitely not romanticizing the Mafia. -------------------------- [Chris and Paulie just botched a hit on a Russian gangster, and are lost in the woods. They call Tony, and get a bad reception] Anthony 'Tony' Soprano Sr.: Listen to me, this guy was a Russian green beret. He was in the ministry of the interior or something. He single-handedly killed 16 Chechen rebels. Be f****** careful. Paulie 'Walnuts' Gualtieri: All right. [hangs up] Christopher Moltisanti: What did he say? Paulie 'Walnuts' Gualtieri: He said the guy killed 16 Czechoslovakians, and he was an interior decorator. Christopher Moltisanti: Interior decorator? His apartment looked like s***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Blz, this is a copy of a post I made in a different thred: "Nobody complains when folks of Italian extraction are targeted when there is a push to capture Mafia criminals. I guess it's ok if the profile target is Caucasian." What do you think about that? Likely, you will have problems combating the Mafia (and I absoultly hate any romanticizing about them such as in that "Sopranos" tv show) unless their ethnicity and appearance are given special attention. 411273[/snapback] I don't watch the Sopranos. But targeting Mafioso isn't a like-for-like comparison. They may not operate openly but it's no secret who they are. In their case the challenge is not learning their identify but getting enough on them to hold up in court. And there are non-Italians in the Mafia by the way. And the initial thread relates to profiling Muslims. My point is you can't do it. Any more than you can profile Catholics. Unless of course you look for who's eating fish fries on Friday in the Northeast.... Sorry - I was raised Catholic. Profile ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted August 20, 2005 Share Posted August 20, 2005 Why is it wrong to profile those who commit terrorism? They're are the ones doing it so big deal if they are profiled. Look, there are limited resources so why waist it on people obviously not commiting the violent acts just to be politically correct. If a ssomeone committed murder in my neighborhood who had similar hair color, height and race as me I would expect to be profiled. Big deal if you have nothing to hide! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zona Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Profiling is a decent enough place to start looking for terrorists. But it is not the answer. I think that maybe instead of Profiling Middle Eastern looking men between 17-40, we should be profiling Non-Citizens. Lets start by kicking every illegal out. Then compare all current visas against the watchdog list for possible terrorists. Start internally and then move outward from there. Anyone trying to get into the USA had better have all there ducks in a row, and be prepared to be investigated. Dont like it? stay home!! If a person is here in the USA illegally, then the Constitution does NOT protect them! Say Goodbye to Hollywood.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_of_manhattan Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Whether we admit it or not - profiling goes on ALL the time.....The danger with only stopping arab men is that we'll likely miss some nutjob aryan looking recruit - and don't tell me that there is not at least one out there - who is willing to do their dirty work. A good security system checks everyone thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 At least learn a little about the subject before spouting off: http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0508.html#1 The whole article is good, but here's some key points at the end: 3. Despite what many people think, terrorism is not confined to young Arab males. Shoe-bomber Richard Reid was British. Germaine Lindsay, one of the 7/7 London bombers, was Afro-Caribbean. Here are some more examples from a speech by the U.S. Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta: "In 1986, a 32-year-old Irish woman, pregnant at the time, was about to board an El Al flight from London to Tel Aviv when El Al security agents discovered an explosive device hidden in the false bottom of her bag. The woman's boyfriend -- the father of her unborn child -- had hidden the bomb. "In 1987, a 70-year-old man and a 25-year-old woman -- neither of whom were Middle Eastern -- posed as father and daughter and brought a bomb aboard a Korean Air flight from Baghdad to Thailand. En route to Bangkok, the bomb exploded, killing all on board. "In 1999, men dressed as businessmen (and one dressed as a Catholic priest) turned out to be terrorist hijackers, who forced an Avianca flight to divert to an airstrip in Colombia, where some passengers were held as hostages for more than a year and a half." The 2002 Bali terrorists were Indonesian. The Chechnyan terrorists who downed the Russian planes were women. Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber were Americans. The Basque terrorists are Basque, and Irish terrorists are Irish. The Tamil Tigers are Sri Lankan. And many Muslims are not Arabs. Even worse, almost everyone who is Arab is not a terrorist -- many people who look Arab are not even Muslims. So not only are there an large number of false negatives -- terrorists who don't meet the profile -- but there an enormous number of false positives: innocents that do meet the profile. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Well DUH, Dave. Anyone with even the most cursory knowledge knows the Pakistani connection. that's why I included them with the above. 409224[/snapback] It's not clear from this thread whether you folks know that Pakistani's are not Arabs. They are not. Nor is Pakistan in the middle east. For the record, the first Arab country among those with the largest muslim populations is 7th: 1. Indonesia, 182.2m 2. Pakistan, 136.9m 3. Bangledesh, 115m 4. India, 108.6 5. Iran, 63.9m (Persian; only 3% are Arab) 6. Turkey, 61.1m (Turks are not Arabs) 7. Egypt, 51.6m But I suppose for the sake of the profile that we can take solice in the fact that those foreigners all probably look the same to us, and those are all middle east or north africa -type places... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simadafuma Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Profiling is a decent enough place to start looking for terrorists. But it is not the answer. I think that maybe instead of Profiling Middle Eastern looking men between 17-40, we should be profiling Non-Citizens. Lets start by kicking every illegal out. Then compare all current visas against the watchdog list for possible terrorists. Start internally and then move outward from there. Anyone trying to get into the USA had better have all there ducks in a row, and be prepared to be investigated. Dont like it? stay home!! If a person is here in the USA illegally, then the Constitution does NOT protect them! Say Goodbye to Hollywood.... 414013[/snapback] Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 It's not clear from this thread whether you folks know that Pakistani's are not Arabs. They are not. Nor is Pakistan in the middle east. For the record, the first Arab country among those with the largest muslim populations is 7th: 1. Indonesia, 182.2m 2. Pakistan, 136.9m 3. Bangledesh, 115m 4. India, 108.6 5. Iran, 63.9m (Persian; only 3% are Arab) 6. Turkey, 61.1m (Turks are not Arabs) 7. Egypt, 51.6m But I suppose for the sake of the profile that we can take solice in the fact that those foreigners all probably look the same to us, and those are all middle east or north africa -type places... 420738[/snapback] Prior post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 Why is it wrong to profile those who commit terrorism? They're are the ones doing it so big deal if they are profiled. Look, there are limited resources so why waist it on people obviously not commiting the violent acts just to be politically correct. If a ssomeone committed murder in my neighborhood who had similar hair color, height and race as me I would expect to be profiled. Big deal if you have nothing to hide! 412985[/snapback] So let's think about that: Timothy McVeigh, terrorist: Blonde, fair skinned, non-Muslim. Ted Kascynzki (spelling? ugh): White, dark curly hair, non-Muslim. Richard Ried: British, who knows about the rest. and the list goes on. Pretty soon everyone WILL be profiled so we'd be right where we are now - not knowing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 So let's think about that: Timothy McVeigh, terrorist: Blonde, fair skinned, non-Muslim. Ted Kascynzki (spelling? ugh): White, dark curly hair, non-Muslim. Richard Ried: British, who knows about the rest. and the list goes on. Pretty soon everyone WILL be profiled so we'd be right where we are now - not knowing! 421147[/snapback] Let's see here...about 10 middle/east-western asian types per day... 3 examples of non over the last 10 years or so... I'll go with the odds and profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philburger1 Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 So let's think about that: Timothy McVeigh, terrorist: Blonde, fair skinned, non-Muslim. Ted Kascynzki (spelling? ugh): White, dark curly hair, non-Muslim. Richard Ried: British, who knows about the rest. and the list goes on. Pretty soon everyone WILL be profiled so we'd be right where we are now - not knowing! 421147[/snapback] AGAIN: None of those people every attacked a mass transit system. We are talking about checking people getting on Trains and Aircrafts. When Whitey starts blowing up planes, then I will worry about him. In the meantime, I will look at Akmad Mohhamend Ahbur with a little more caution when he steps onboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I agree that we should profile...and its simply put if i'm going to be shot at work or sniped, chances are it'll be by some psycho white lunatic from montana if i'm going to have my plane blown up or be a victim of a suicide bomber, chances are its gonna be by a diaper on the head arab or muslim... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I agree that we should profile...and its simply put if i'm going to be shot at work or sniped, chances are it'll be by some psycho white lunatic from montana if i'm going to have my plane blown up or be a victim of a suicide bomber, chances are its gonna be by a diaper on the head arab or muslim... 421655[/snapback] I too am pro-profiling. The problem is that profiling on too broad information - when millions fit the description - is worthless. You would need a hundredfold increase in personnel to accomidate it. Profiling works best when you have plausible information limited to a time or place - eg, info that some pakistanis (say) are planning on crossing into Texas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Panther Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Yes... a towel head is a towel head. Plus it makes it easier to eliminate them as suspects. Then we go to Middle Eastern descent and muslims. Why the heck not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I hate politically correct jackasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 I too am pro-profiling. The problem is that profiling on too broad information - when millions fit the description - is worthless. You would need a hundredfold increase in personnel to accomidate it. Profiling works best when you have plausible information limited to a time or place - eg, info that some pakistanis (say) are planning on crossing into Texas 421856[/snapback] Wait a minute...this makes sense. What is it doing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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