dave mcbride Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 for those who didn't read jerry sullivan's column today, i just want to alert everyone (as if people didn't already know) that he doesn't actually appear to watch other nfl teams. in his column ( http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050...?tbd1035686.asp ), he wrote: "Clements has some of the credentials of an elite cornerback. He has 18 interceptions in his four seasons in Buffalo. A few actually came against competent NFL passers. If you base a defensive back's value solely on pickoffs, he's in the same class as Champ Bailey, who commanded an $18 million signing bonus from the Broncos. But Clements isn't in Bailey's class. He's a good player and a proven playmaker, but he's not an elite shut-down corner." However, this cuts against a gathering consensus about Bailey, spearheaded by Dr. Z who knows a lot more than Sullivan: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ....systems/1.html 'Or on consensus All-Pro cornerback Champ Bailey: "Bailey was 79th in deep yards (first being the fewest), tied for 73rd in deep completion percentage, tied for 16th most in deep attempts, tied for 69th in deep TDs ... Bailey wasn't just beaten deep; he was targeted for deep passes quite frequently."' Or this: http://msn.foxsports.com/fantasy/story/3772052 "Champ Bailey might be the most overrated player in football. Those are my words, not Joyner's. But Bailey's 2004 season was simply terrible for a guy who made the Pro Bowl. He was near the bottom of the league in deep yards given up, deep completion percentage, most deep attempts, TDs allowed, completion percentage, total yardages and yards per attempt. KC's stats were comprehensive and overwhelming. Bailey was targeted and beaten often last year. He gave up seven TDs and six plays more than 25 yards! Here are KC's words on Bailey, "You simply cannot tell me that all of these plays were due to other people in the Broncos secondary blowing coverages, especially since John Lynch was voted to the Pro Bowl. Even if they did blow some coverages, wouldn't you expect Bailey to do better than this in man-up coverage?" Fantasy owners who see Bailey covering their receiver should not be overly worried if his performance doesn't dramatically improve." And then there's short barb from Dr. Z: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writ.../mailbag/1.html "Mike of Casselberry, Fla., wonders where all the Champ Bailey hype is coming from. The same place. The empty heads who are talking when they should be watching. Champ was a target for deep passes last year."
stuckincincy Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 I recall a prime time game last year (don't recall if it was Sunday or monday night) where the announcers were heaping praise on Bailey before he got burned alive.
dave mcbride Posted August 11, 2005 Author Posted August 11, 2005 I recall a prime time game last year (don't recall if it was Sunday or monday night) where the announcers were heaping praise on Bailey before he got burned alive. 404745[/snapback] it was a game against cincy where he was shredded. he gave up some big plays versus the raiders last year too in a night game ...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 it was a game against cincy where he was shredded. he gave up some big plays versus the raiders last year too in a night game ... 404749[/snapback] To be fair though, corner is close to the toughest position to play in football. That's why they make so much scratch. Even the great ones get beat their fair share. With regards to Buffalo and Clements I have to quote Teddy KGB: "Pay him. Pay dat man his money."
30dive Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 I read the tease from Two Bills Drive and without looking I knew it had to be written by Sullivan. Jeeezzzzzz [8:51 am] Clements isn't elite in play, pay Buffalo News reports: 'He's a good player and a proven playmaker, but he's not an elite shut-down corner. Managing an NFL payroll is a delicate task. Donahoe hates overpaying for players; he should be careful about investing too much in Clements.
Kevbeau Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 it was a game against cincy where he was shredded. he gave up some big plays versus the raiders last year too in a night game ... 404749[/snapback] Yup, Chad Johnson made Bailey his biznitch last year..to the tune of 150yds I believe.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 You ought to send that to Sullivan himself, so he'll know that his readers know what a fraud he is. What you have discovered here is the ugly truth about sports reporting: that most media people really don't know jack sh-- about the sports they cover. The lazy ones rely on what the read and hear from media types, who themselves are just reading and hearing other people's stuff. To be sure, there are good ones: Peter Gammons, Chris Mortenson, Jim Kelley, but you can count them on your fingers and toes. You can tell who does their homework and who is just making it up. PTR
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 You ought to send that to Sullivan himself, so he'll know that his readers know what a fraud he is. What you have discovered here is the ugly truth about sports reporting: that most media people really don't know jack sh-- about the sports they cover. The lazy ones rely on what the read and hear from media types, who themselves are just reading and hearing other people's stuff. To be sure, there are good ones: Peter Gammons, Chris Mortenson, Jim Kelley, but you can count them on your fingers and toes. You can tell who does their homework and who is just making it up. PTR 404792[/snapback] Amen to that Promo. Sully has an opinion, like everyone, but he also has a column... and he is also under no compulsion to be consistent. Very much like the weather man, he relies on people to have no memories or willingness to check back on his assertions and predictions. I bet he already has a draft column ready to excoriate TD for being cheap just in case Clements signs somewhere else....
The Jokeman Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 With all do respect to Jerry Sullivan, I think he should look at the games Nate had against AFC Pro Bowl WRs Chad Johnson and Hines Ward last season before he dismisses him as an elite CB. Incase you were wondering, he held both to 2 catches and a yard per catch below 6 yards. Call me a homer but I easily put Nate as one of the 10 best CBs in the league.
IndyJay1234 Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 Why do you even read Sullivan? It actually is funny. Sullivan is wrong so often it is amusing. Last season he told me in a email that we should have signed Mark Brunell. He blasts the Bills for taking Willis McGahee over a guard. A Guard.... Top 5 player or a Guard..... Yeah... damn... wish we had the game changing Guard from Cincy Steinback... So with regard to Clements... If Sullivan thinks it is a waste of money then TD should pick up the phone and pony up to Nate's demands...
Hardy Pyle Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 I'd have to say Charles Woodson is the best corner in the NFL. NE Samuel is pretty good too. I recall Moulds saying that Woodson is the best he's faced.
dave mcbride Posted August 11, 2005 Author Posted August 11, 2005 You ought to send that to Sullivan himself, so he'll know that his readers know what a fraud he is. What you have discovered here is the ugly truth about sports reporting: that most media people really don't know jack sh-- about the sports they cover. The lazy ones rely on what the read and hear from media types, who themselves are just reading and hearing other people's stuff. To be sure, there are good ones: Peter Gammons, Chris Mortenson, Jim Kelley, but you can count them on your fingers and toes. You can tell who does their homework and who is just making it up. PTR 404792[/snapback] Promo, I just did.
dave mcbride Posted August 11, 2005 Author Posted August 11, 2005 Call me a homer but I easily put Nate as one of the 10 best CBs in the league. 404833[/snapback] so would most people who actually watch nfl games.
The Jokeman Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 so would most people who actually watch nfl games. 404845[/snapback] which is why he should get the franchise tag after this season and locked up to a long term deal.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 Anyone who's consistently watched Bailey throughout his career knows last season was not a "down year" but your average bailey year. He's a good cb, but he's not in clements league as far as man to man coverage. Bailey would make a good zone corner, but his ability to cover deep is just not good. He used to consistently get owned by Amani Toomer, even a few times by former cowboys wr Antonio Bryant, and the likes of James Thrash. By the way not only is clements in Baileys "leauge" as far as int's are concerned he's better. Bailey the last 4 years has averaged 2.75 int's per year. Clements 4.5. Clements also has 8 forced fumbles to bailey's 4, and 4 defensive td's to bailey's 1. Nate Clements stacks up favorably well wirth the suppoused best cb's in the league, and imo is better than all of them. Chump Bailey wouldn't crack my top 5. Nate Clements/Shawn Springs/Chris Mcallister/Antoine Winfield/Ty Law
The Jokeman Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 Anyone who's consistently watched Bailey throughout his career knows last season was not a "down year" but your average bailey year. He's a good cb, but he's not in clements league as far as man to man coverage. Bailey would make a good zone corner, but his ability to cover deep is just not good. He used to consistently get owned by Amani Toomer, even a few times by former cowboys wr Antonio Bryant, and the likes of James Thrash. By the way not only is clements in Baileys "leauge" as far as int's are concerned he's better. Bailey the last 4 years has averaged 2.75 int's per year. Clements 4.5. Clements also has 8 forced fumbles to bailey's 4, and 4 defensive td's to bailey's 1. Nate Clements stacks up favorably well wirth the suppoused best cb's in the league, and imo is better than all of them. Chump Bailey wouldn't crack my top 5.Nate Clements/Shawn Springs/Chris Mcallister/Antoine Winfield/Ty Law 404859[/snapback] If healthy, I think Law might be the best of the lot and agree with that list. Another guy that doesn't get much press and should be considered is Samari Rolle. Also Dunta Robinson could be part of the next generation if plays as well as he did as a rookie.
nobody Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 But now if Donahoe doesn't get Clements resigned and he ends up going to some other team next year Sullivan can write another article about how Donahoe always lets his best talent leave for nothing.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 But now if Donahoe doesn't get Clements resigned and he ends up going to some other team next year Sullivan can write another article about how Donahoe always lets his best talent leave for nothing. 404878[/snapback] Geez.... I wrote that earlier today and got not a single response or reference to it... What does a guy gotta do to become visible around here?
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 Geez.... I wrote that earlier today and got not a single response or reference to it... What does a guy gotta do to become visible around here? 404897[/snapback] Huh?? What ya say?
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted August 11, 2005 Posted August 11, 2005 Huh?? What ya say? 404900[/snapback] I deserved that.
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